Seeing how there are still boy toys and girl toys, boy books and girl books, boy movies and girl movies, I don't see why there won't be boy games and girl gamesGeeDave post=9.71383.724514 said:
Girl Gamer's Opinion
- Thread starter Mudora
- Start date
Well, you've got the Sims... and everything Nintendo has produced in the past 10 years...tobyornottoby post=9.71383.725069 said:
(surely I kid)
Well, that brings us back full circle to my initial statement. The reason why men are so dismissive is because the battle is being framed within a sexist construct and excludes men from the get go.Eggo post=9.71383.722481 said:
Why would an average apathetic self centered male care about the rights of random women? If it doesn't concern him then he won't.
So in order to get anywhere the conflict should be framed in a broader contruct other than just "feminism". Like I said, the sexist issues here are due to the idealistic stereotypical nature of entertainment based upon the views of the designers. Their entire perspective is shallow and cliche, not just their representation of women.
And if all you want are equal rights then there is no need to frame the argument under the motivation of one race/gender over the other since it will usually cause a backlash from the opposing race/gender. Basically, if this thread started with the idea, "why are so many videogame characters designed as shallow sexist cliches" the broader scope would have had an inclusive point that most people could agree with.
Instead, the current point seems more concerned with female stereotypes over male stereotypes and surprise, the poster is a woman.
I see nothing wrong with objectification and misportrayals for entertainment value. You and I both agree that males are the main videogame market, so where's the surprise? Games are entertainment. Playing a game is just having a good time, so what's wrong with adding titts to the equation? I don't see anyone flipping out at cheerleaders, hostesses at car shows, or the waitresses at Hooters. Guess why? All of those are targeted at male clients. It makes sense. Men are easily aroused and interested in sex, and being sexually aroused lends to being more entertained by something. In the case of SC4, why not have a semi-naked D-cup chick wielding a sword as a main character? It's awesome, ands to the fun of the game if you're a guy, which we already agreed that chances are you are one if you're playing a game. It reinforces the game's point: entertain. Note that I'm assuming animated titts are that arousing. Most guys don't literally get hard while playing SC4.
Games are not reality. Objectifying, stereotyping, slandering, and generalizing all manner of things about our social construct can be taken with a grain of salt when playing a videogame. Their point is to entertain, and while lots of games try to have a sincere and solemn attitude toward things, where you wouldn't usually find complaints about the resident female population looking like a bunch of Playboy bunnies, others parody themselves and many aspects of life. Play a bit of No More Heroes, Redneck Rampage, Monkey Island (any), Worms, or GTA 1/2 to understand what I'm talking about. SC4, being the game I'm using for chief example, isn't really noted for its message or captivating plot. It has nothing to say other than "two people - weapons optional - clothing optional - fight." Are we going to fool ourselves and take this game seriously for the way it portrays women? I believe we ought to really think about what makes us who we are. If a game of little to no intellectual content is enough to shape a person's opinion about women, then I'll advise you not to be too bothered what that person thinks.
Men are usually misportrayed in video games as well. However, because the given audience here is a bunch of straight males, the disparity between fantasy and reality does not serve to sexually arouse, but to lend a certain charisma rarely seen in real life. Think of most male video game protagonists: they are generally more sharp, aggressive, brave, resourceful, and/or muscular than any male player hopes to be. Do you think it bothers me that I was a xenophobic, dumbass redneck when I played Duke Nukem 3D? No. It also doesn't bother me that he would probably have a dick the size of my forearm if the game made a point of showing it.
Games are not reality. Objectifying, stereotyping, slandering, and generalizing all manner of things about our social construct can be taken with a grain of salt when playing a videogame. Their point is to entertain, and while lots of games try to have a sincere and solemn attitude toward things, where you wouldn't usually find complaints about the resident female population looking like a bunch of Playboy bunnies, others parody themselves and many aspects of life. Play a bit of No More Heroes, Redneck Rampage, Monkey Island (any), Worms, or GTA 1/2 to understand what I'm talking about. SC4, being the game I'm using for chief example, isn't really noted for its message or captivating plot. It has nothing to say other than "two people - weapons optional - clothing optional - fight." Are we going to fool ourselves and take this game seriously for the way it portrays women? I believe we ought to really think about what makes us who we are. If a game of little to no intellectual content is enough to shape a person's opinion about women, then I'll advise you not to be too bothered what that person thinks.
Men are usually misportrayed in video games as well. However, because the given audience here is a bunch of straight males, the disparity between fantasy and reality does not serve to sexually arouse, but to lend a certain charisma rarely seen in real life. Think of most male video game protagonists: they are generally more sharp, aggressive, brave, resourceful, and/or muscular than any male player hopes to be. Do you think it bothers me that I was a xenophobic, dumbass redneck when I played Duke Nukem 3D? No. It also doesn't bother me that he would probably have a dick the size of my forearm if the game made a point of showing it.
Honestly Eggo, At this point I am only laughing as how much like voting with women. In 10 years it will be normal that every boy and girl will play video games, Even now in elementary schools every kid boy and girl plays games. Then I can sit back and be say,"Back when I was a kid we had to fight for our right to play games" Much like I am sure women of the suffrage movement got bragging rights to there grandkids for years only this will be less important.Eggo post=9.71383.724818 said:
Also then all these bitter men will whimper in shame as there catchphrase of,"Only 20% of real women play online" will be taken away.
The industry also makes a lot of their male character look like "many men want to look like." I could complain about how all the guys who husky space marines with no real depth or how America wanks off to themselves in WWII games by having their soldiers fearless heroes (and I do). I could complain about the male protagonist in Final Fantasy games (again, I do).
but yeah, even as a guy, the who girl-armor thing really gets on my nerves.
but yeah, even as a guy, the who girl-armor thing really gets on my nerves.
Easily, I think there are many perspectives on this, and I AM not only a girl gamer, but a female employee of a certain massive game store we all know and, perhaps, love.
Now, as much as I do agree the stereotypes run strongly games, there are a lot of other stereotypes that run in certain genres as well... Final Fantasy, my favorite series, boasts a large amount of effeminate man-children that piss me off regularly. But it also feature giant swords, which probably piss off a lot of other people, but I rather think them neat, if not hilarious in a good way at times.
There's just a lot of takes on a stereotype, and most people in the game industry ARE men, and if there's a large stereotype that persists and gets a smaller demographic angry, that's just the way it is. I still LIKE Final Fantasy, and LOVE it after I learn to tune out, say, Vaan, and listen to, I dunno, Balthier. Mmm.
I plan to become a character designer for games one day, and here's a little thing I've learned in my art history classes: for a about a decade in ancient Greece, figure statues had reached their idea of finally looking "natural", something they've tried to achieve for centuries. Why did it only last ten years, though? That's when they realized EXAGGERATION was a lot more pleasing. And if games are art, what makes the difference? Women in games have big boobs. Men in RPGs have big, compensating swords.
.....I do goddamn wish parents would stop asking me for "a more feminine" color in DS's, and "girl games" though. Ick.
Now, as much as I do agree the stereotypes run strongly games, there are a lot of other stereotypes that run in certain genres as well... Final Fantasy, my favorite series, boasts a large amount of effeminate man-children that piss me off regularly. But it also feature giant swords, which probably piss off a lot of other people, but I rather think them neat, if not hilarious in a good way at times.
There's just a lot of takes on a stereotype, and most people in the game industry ARE men, and if there's a large stereotype that persists and gets a smaller demographic angry, that's just the way it is. I still LIKE Final Fantasy, and LOVE it after I learn to tune out, say, Vaan, and listen to, I dunno, Balthier. Mmm.
I plan to become a character designer for games one day, and here's a little thing I've learned in my art history classes: for a about a decade in ancient Greece, figure statues had reached their idea of finally looking "natural", something they've tried to achieve for centuries. Why did it only last ten years, though? That's when they realized EXAGGERATION was a lot more pleasing. And if games are art, what makes the difference? Women in games have big boobs. Men in RPGs have big, compensating swords.
.....I do goddamn wish parents would stop asking me for "a more feminine" color in DS's, and "girl games" though. Ick.
Well, if you truly want the male perspective I'll give you this males perspective(which is jaded and grumpy right now).
The whole "girls need to be represented in games as a strong lead character, but can't be good looking or have big boobs" argument really needs to be put to sleep because there are stereotypes for both genders that the women just don't like to see, don't want to see, or some fucked up mixture of both. If you've been paying attention to the last 20 years of gaming history, or the last 100 years of any of the entertainment mediums for that matter, there is a reoccurring trait that shows up for at least 85% of the protagonists: they are good looking. Doesn't matter the gender.
Nobody wants to play a 30 hour action-adventure game as the kid in the back of the class with the anime club t shirt on, they want a hybrid of Brad Pitt/Matt Damon. And the same goes for the fat chick with glasses and a big nose. She isn't going to be the protagonist in an epic rpg. Ever. It doesn't market well. What markets well is the 28 year old space marine with biceps that make The Rock cringe and a face that could get any girl and the rest of her family to sleep with him. And he does this while duel wielding automatic rifles and saving the world from the next invasion of your choice. And it doesn't get better for the girls. What gets the guys is your perfectly oversized breasts and willingness to display them on on a moments notice.
The stereotypes work both ways. The facts of the matter are people like to play as attractive people because games are an escape for them. Most gamers don't want to look in the mirror while they play their games. They want to be the the hero, the guy who always gets the girl, not the average dude who works his unbelievably mundane 50,000K a year job doing nothing while marrying and equally mundane girl who puts out barely once a month.
And girls, I hate to break it to you, but if the lead women in games actually had breasts that correspond correctly with the size of their face and weren't snotty sarcastic bitches most of the time, nobody would be interested in the game. It's the way it goes. But we get exploited for our masculine traits too, so lets try to keep the tangents to a minimum, heh?
Sorry if any of this sounds awful, because I'm sure it does.
The whole "girls need to be represented in games as a strong lead character, but can't be good looking or have big boobs" argument really needs to be put to sleep because there are stereotypes for both genders that the women just don't like to see, don't want to see, or some fucked up mixture of both. If you've been paying attention to the last 20 years of gaming history, or the last 100 years of any of the entertainment mediums for that matter, there is a reoccurring trait that shows up for at least 85% of the protagonists: they are good looking. Doesn't matter the gender.
Nobody wants to play a 30 hour action-adventure game as the kid in the back of the class with the anime club t shirt on, they want a hybrid of Brad Pitt/Matt Damon. And the same goes for the fat chick with glasses and a big nose. She isn't going to be the protagonist in an epic rpg. Ever. It doesn't market well. What markets well is the 28 year old space marine with biceps that make The Rock cringe and a face that could get any girl and the rest of her family to sleep with him. And he does this while duel wielding automatic rifles and saving the world from the next invasion of your choice. And it doesn't get better for the girls. What gets the guys is your perfectly oversized breasts and willingness to display them on on a moments notice.
The stereotypes work both ways. The facts of the matter are people like to play as attractive people because games are an escape for them. Most gamers don't want to look in the mirror while they play their games. They want to be the the hero, the guy who always gets the girl, not the average dude who works his unbelievably mundane 50,000K a year job doing nothing while marrying and equally mundane girl who puts out barely once a month.
And girls, I hate to break it to you, but if the lead women in games actually had breasts that correspond correctly with the size of their face and weren't snotty sarcastic bitches most of the time, nobody would be interested in the game. It's the way it goes. But we get exploited for our masculine traits too, so lets try to keep the tangents to a minimum, heh?
Sorry if any of this sounds awful, because I'm sure it does.
I am paying for entertainment and tits when i buy a game.
If you take away the tits, i will be angry.
I know their unrealistic, if i wanted realism i would go outside.
I want, however, a half-boner and some time off this planet, and for the love of god i will have them if i pay for it. When we start taking the pandering to players baser needs out of games, its a fucking stupid day indeed.
What else does a game do if not pander to basic desires? boobs are one of them and i pay for them in games.
You can call me a pig all you want, but i like women. If games like to help the aspect of women i really like... then more power to them. They have access to my wallet and they earned it.
Am i ashamed? Ashamed of what!? Ashamed that i like something and am willing to pay for it? Madness! If anything its power to the women for the very idea of them being able to suck some cash out of me for boobs i can't even touch.
Not that i give a crap, to me it comes down to one thing. I only live once, boobs are fun, and i intend to shove as many into my span of existence as i can.
You guys can debate all you want, but i'm the one constantly enjoying himself.
I just won this game, and hopefully there are some more tits in the bonus levels of it.
If you take away the tits, i will be angry.
I know their unrealistic, if i wanted realism i would go outside.
I want, however, a half-boner and some time off this planet, and for the love of god i will have them if i pay for it. When we start taking the pandering to players baser needs out of games, its a fucking stupid day indeed.
What else does a game do if not pander to basic desires? boobs are one of them and i pay for them in games.
You can call me a pig all you want, but i like women. If games like to help the aspect of women i really like... then more power to them. They have access to my wallet and they earned it.
Am i ashamed? Ashamed of what!? Ashamed that i like something and am willing to pay for it? Madness! If anything its power to the women for the very idea of them being able to suck some cash out of me for boobs i can't even touch.
Not that i give a crap, to me it comes down to one thing. I only live once, boobs are fun, and i intend to shove as many into my span of existence as i can.
You guys can debate all you want, but i'm the one constantly enjoying himself.
I just won this game, and hopefully there are some more tits in the bonus levels of it.
You just got me a Bingo square, Joe! An ULTRA square! Not the right one though. Dammit! I've got over half the card filled and still no Bingo. Seriously, guys, you have to step it up a little or I am never going to win this game.
Fortunately there is a new game coming out soon that should remedy some women's cares about the objectification and oversexualization of their digital counterparts.
I believe this game is called "Bikini Zombie Slayers"
The title alone promises that the game will be rife with deep, complex women who are there for something more than just eye-candy.
I believe this game is called "Bikini Zombie Slayers"
The title alone promises that the game will be rife with deep, complex women who are there for something more than just eye-candy.
Samus, one of the most badass* charaters in a game, is female and is in FULL armor throughout almost the entire game.
*(almost at Chuck Norris levels)
*(almost at Chuck Norris levels)