Go Back To WoW

Lucifron

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Interesting article, but the "go back to wow"-symptom theory is flawed. EVE Online's forums have 15800 for that phrase on google, and it is certainly not said because the game is flawed, but because EVE really is a completely different kind of game than wow, and people expecting anything similar will get flamed on the forums.
Cases such as those mentioned in the article do exist of course, but they are not the majority of such occurrences.

Edit: What Hopeless Bastard said.
 

TOGSolid

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Sonic Doctor said:
Some people play the game for story, but they can't complete it because the game forces them to interact with other players.
Kinda defeats the entire point of the genre doesn't it? That's like playing first person shooters but not actually attacking anything because you're a pacifist.

They do make RPGs that involve 0 interaction with other players yanno.

The problem is is that when a game is super popular a lot of players will go and try something else and ***** when it's not similar to their favorite game. I.e. Cod 4 morons going to play Bad Company 2 and then whining about all the stuff that isn't like COD, or WoW players expecting Eve Online to lead them along a very set and narrow path just because they're incapable of thinking outside the box.

Some criticisms are valid, but often times they're not. It's important to be able to separate the few good points from the retarded ramblings of the masses.

The people who play EVE only to give up after a week (or more) are the ones who instantly begin grinding "gear" like they're playing world of warcraft, in space. They give up once they learn how long it'll take to grind anything, how long it'll take to learn skills, and/or how dangerous it is to actually go anywhere. If EVE was altered to accommodate these people the game itself would become something completely different. Maybe it would be more familiar, but it would lose what sets it apart from wow.
Exactly, back when I did play Eve, I made my few few million by scamming other players rather than just grinding. All the WoWtards that I tried to get to play with me though just couldn't figure out what to do though because their wasn't a magic carrot on a stick to guide them through the game.
 

silversun101

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Is it odd that I knew he was going to reference the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory before I even clicked on the link?
 

(LK)

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Pitch a "Go Back to WoW" metric to game developers as a litmus test of the health of their game.

I wonder how many "Go Back to WoW"s are in the PotBS forums now that it's withering...
 

Eric the Orange

Gone Gonzo
Apr 29, 2008
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Mr. Mike said:
Eric The Orange, are you content now?
For now perhaps.

But all I was trying to say is that this article was not about WoW, or going back to it. And in your initial post that was what you were talking about. And thus had nothing to do with the article.
 

Ushario

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Random Bobcat said:
It isn't unique to games.

When I was younger, I was part of the "BMXers are fags", being a skateboarder then (and now without the borderline xenophobia).

It's basic human nature, an unsure mind can genreate false security by degrading the validity (perceived or otherwise) of any competing articles.

QED - 360 vs PS3, MW2 vs BF:BC2, ad infinitum. Justify and falsely strengthen your "corner" by mudslinging. Applicable to every single instance where there is two opposing forces.
I was on the other side of that argument, skaters hated us BMX'ers so we'd hate back on them.

Next time I look at an MMO to play I'll be using this method to see if its any good - its seems fairly accurate given my experience.
 

Sonic Doctor

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Jan 9, 2010
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TOGSolid said:
Sonic Doctor said:
Some people play the game for story, but they can't complete it because the game forces them to interact with other players.
Kinda defeats the entire point of the genre doesn't it? That's like playing first person shooters but not actually attacking anything because you're a pacifist.

They do make RPGs that involve 0 interaction with other players yanno.

The problem is is that when a game is super popular a lot of players will go and try something else and ***** when it's not similar to their favorite game. I.e. Cod 4 morons going to play Bad Company 2 and then whining about all the stuff that isn't like COD, or WoW players expecting Eve Online to lead them along a very set and narrow path just because they're incapable of thinking outside the box.

Some criticisms are valid, but often times they're not. It's important to be able to separate the few good points from the retarded ramblings of the masses.
First off, cool down with the attitude.

Having been born in 1985, I have been around for most of the development of the gaming world. I started gaming when I was four, at least that is as far back as I remember. As I saw from your profile you are a couple years older, so you wouldn't know much more about the evolution of gaming.

Your whole comparison comment on how my point defeats the purpose of the genre is wrong. MMORPG is not a genre it is a subset of RPG which is a genre. At heart, MMORPGs are RPGs first, if you removed the RPG you would be left with something that is not a game, basically a chatbox.

Of course I know that there are single player RPGs, but can't you think of any that have worlds that are as vast and open as MMORPGs. I would say that the ones that come closest are Oblivion and Fallout 3, but even their worlds are dwarfed in size compared to most MMORPGs.
My point was that MMORPGs have vast and bigger worlds, and usually have richer and longer story-lines compared to single player RPGs.

Players that want to experience that without dealing with people, shouldn't have to suffer through trying to find one good team member out of the majority of greedy, usually awful players. It usually takes me a week or more to find one person that will team up without any catch or strings attached, all the other people always want something or log off or drop out in the middle of a quest. Most ask for items I don't have or amounts of gold that would take months to acquire, which of course I don't have. When I help people I don't ask for anything. I have helped a couple people when playing LotRO, mainly because I saw they were lower level than me and wanted me to lead or run them through some place like a goblin camp to complete a quest. I helped them, they said thank you, and I said your welcome, then we parted ways and never saw or interacted with each other again.

My complaint is one grounded in what the gaming companies have to understand to make more money and survive. In the gaming world today games are and rightfully so, expected to have both single player and multiplayer, or some kind of co-op in the single player mode. It's not hard to see that a majority of the world's game players play or have played multiplayer games, but I would guarantee that a majority of the world's gamers are at heart, more partial to single player games.

Yes MMORPGs are mostly made to cater to people that want to interact with other people, but I would say that the MM of MMO can also stand not just for multiple people playing with each other but also that multiple people are playing the same game. Now some MMOs creators have finally gotten the correct mindset and have started to tool some main story team quests so that people can choose to play solo, but they haven't gone far enough. It would be very smart financially, for a company to add a solo choice for all main story quests. If they did that, the company would most likely double their player base and gain twice as much money as they have been making. If I was the head of a game company I would do that with my MMORPG because it is a commonsense kind of move, because game companies of course want more people to play and more money.

I seriously don't see why the core MMO players get up in arms about people that want a single player aspect added to those games. Making a choice for players to be able to play the main story quests solo, would damage absolutely nothing for the players that want to play in groups. It feels like those core MMO players act like they are in some kind of exclusive club where they only allow certain people to join with them; the mentality feels like they are saying this, "If you don't roll with us, then you don't get to experience the game and find out how the story ends." It is childish.
 

Coldman42

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Mr. Mike said:
Eric the Orange said:
Perhaps you should try reading the article instead of responding to the title.
Perhaps I did read the article, but this is just the thoughts I had on it all so I expressed that. If you want me to address the topic more, I shall.

The whole notion of WoW being that standard for noobs (like how people view COD or Halo) is preposterous. Sure, they might not be my cup of tea, but I appreciate the fact they are very easy to pick up and play and allow the player to get a sense of satisfaction quickly and feel comfortable with the game. Make a game TOO miche or hardcore and only the most dedicated of fans will stick with it to learn its intricacies. Games like WoW are very polished, and if nothing else, act as a very good starting point for a player to take their first steps into the genre of the game. Go back to WoW... sometimes it's good to go back to a genre's roots, no?

Eric The Orange, are you content now?
Same here. Got to it first before i could make a nice speech. Oh what the hell, here goes.

I played WoW and i will admit that there are a lot of great people there as with any MMO. The reason i will never go back to it (or any MMO for that matter as of yet) is that it feels like playing anything on X-Box live. Everyone is a dick. It doesn't matter if your new and don't get everything or if you just don't know a certain area well. People in MMOs are, for the most part, dicks. So for me complaining about one MMO and being told to "Go back to WoW" doing that wouldn't solve my complaints of over-dicked areas. And that is why i won't go back to WoW or any other dick-filled MMO.

(Please don't put me on probation for this, my use of the word "dick" was needed here)

*gets little girl with big puppy-dog eyes to look at moderator* (Please?)
 

Ciler

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theklng said:
Ciler said:
theklng said:
the reason that there is such a stigma tied to world of warcraft is because it is by far the most casual of all MMOs. that is not to say that you cannot be 'hardcore' (or whatever the opposite of casual may be), there are just tools set in place for you not to be just that.

personally i don't think there's anything worthwhile in world of warcraft; to me it is a testament how a game can become an excellent product, while at the same time being an awfully mediocre game (based on game elements and mechanics in comparison with other MMOs before and after the original release of world of warcraft in 2004).
Maybe the new one should be "Go back to Farmville"... that's even more casual-friendly than WoW (not to mention being an awfully mediocre game).
farmville is not in the same genre and will by most not even be considered a 'real' game. not to mention it is much less known than world of warcraft.
Hence the greater insult.
 

2xDouble

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Actually, the expression isn't merely an insult to critic and Warcraft. It's also an exacerbated sigh in the direction of WoW fanboys trashing a game because they believe that Warcraft is significantly better. If a person in a chat were to offer friendly advice on how the game could be improved, or features he or she would like to see included, that is fine. But if that same person were to continuously spam the local chat or forums "this game suck, it's not as good as WoW. I'm playing this game just to show you how bad it is compared to WoW, MAN this game sucks!", etc... Then, I believe "go back to WoW" is a justified and appropriate response.

If a person logs into a game just to trash it instead of playing their beloved Warcraft, why do they not simply stop playing the game and spend that time actually playing Warcraft? It doesn't make sense.
He lives on Endor. Now why would a 7' Wookee live on a planet with a bunch of little 3' Ewoks? It doesn't make sense. Why the heck am i talking about Chewbacca when the topic is World of Warcraft? It doesn't make sense. Thank you, I rest my case. (cookie to whoever gets the reference)
EDIT:
Also, what of those Warcraft players who didn't like the other game(s) and instead of starting a flamewar, posted on the forums: "I'm going to go back to WoW"? A cursory text search would have included those otherwise normal people NOT using it as an insult.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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hmm never thought of it that way. Though the only ones i dont like are the ones that go into world chat bitching about the game and comparing to wow. those ppl need to stop it. However anyone with a legitimate complaint i tend to agree or ignore. XD
 

2xDouble

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Zerbye said:
Fanboys in other fields? In science, you can definitely have fanboys like you see in System Wars. Are you into single-cell electrophysiology or functional brain imaging? Are you into math or physics? Psychologists vs. physiologists? I've met all types that "know" that they are better than their nemesis.
You should hear the Physicists vs Engineers vs Mathematicians debates... and how we can all laugh at the English majors. lol! (kidding!)
 

Ricotez

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I see this so often on the EVE Online forums. EVE fanboys belong to the worst kind of fanboy. On one hand they complain about every single aspect of the game, on the other hand they loathe anyone who dares criticize the game. Fortunately they are only a minority; most EVE players are understanding enough to realize that other people simply prefer other games. I am an EVE player, and although I don't really like WoW, I understand why there are people who play it. It's just that I'm not among them.

I should also say I'm an avid Guild Wars player. Guild Wars fanboys are the same: 'GB2WoW'.
 

theklng

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Ciler said:
theklng said:
Ciler said:
theklng said:
the reason that there is such a stigma tied to world of warcraft is because it is by far the most casual of all MMOs. that is not to say that you cannot be 'hardcore' (or whatever the opposite of casual may be), there are just tools set in place for you not to be just that.

personally i don't think there's anything worthwhile in world of warcraft; to me it is a testament how a game can become an excellent product, while at the same time being an awfully mediocre game (based on game elements and mechanics in comparison with other MMOs before and after the original release of world of warcraft in 2004).
Maybe the new one should be "Go back to Farmville"... that's even more casual-friendly than WoW (not to mention being an awfully mediocre game).
farmville is not in the same genre and will by most not even be considered a 'real' game. not to mention it is much less known than world of warcraft.
Hence the greater insult.
no, you don't understand. it's not an insult anymore because it's not related. it's not a lesser version of any of the other games in the genre, and as such it's not an insult at all. it's like having cut and uncut diamonds then suddenly referring to rubies. you're more prone to people not understanding your insult at this point, and that really negates any power your insult may have. you should take a look into rhetorics.
 

Jonathan Wingo

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Sonic Doctor said:
I guess it is because the bright colors or the cartoon feel I get from it, but I couldn't get into WoW. I am a fan of LotRO, yes it has color but if feels rather toned down compared to WoW, and that is what I like about it. Also, comparing with WoW and what I have heard other people explain about other MMOs, LotRO has a lot more storage for items than any other. I heard from People playing other MMOs that players get 30 on person storage to to start out. LotRO of course starts people off with 5 packs with 15 slots each, and then you get a vault in large towns that store 30 and you can buy more vault space as you level up. Also when you buy a house you get a storage container with it too. So I have well over 100 slots to store stuff, though I'm a pack rat and still run out of space. I have the stupid tendency to think, hmm maybe I will need that later.

Now I would say that the one thing that MMOs need to work on is single player aspect. I'm not a very social person, so I'm the person that is fighting off people that are jumping around me asking me to join their fellowship or kinship. Turbine has been working some single player aspects into LotRO by letting players on some of the major story quests, choose to do it solo, which is not as hard with nerfed enemies, rather than the fellowship route. They still have a lot of main story fellowship quests that need to have a solo version added.
For example, my level 32 hobbit guardian is in the North Downs and I am on the main story quest where I have to save Dori the Dwarf from the Dourhand Dwarfs. I take the quest and head for the Dourhand fortress, then I waltz in and get annihilated by two level 34 elite Dourhands, that have over 4000 health each(I have only a little over 2000 health.) When I took the quest I guess I hadn't noticed that it was a fellowship quest. The reason I guess the Turbine hasn't given a solo option for it is because it isn't an instance quest. So, I guess I will just have to grind away and level up past level 42 or higher then continue with the main story.
I don't really care a whole lot about side quests unless I get something useful for it. I care about story. So I think it would be good for future MMOs and current ones, to make a choice that allows people to do all main story quests solo.
I'm not going stoop that low again and fellowship up with people to complete something. The two times I did do that, the people weren't very helpful, while I fought and died, they looted bodies. When you aren't in a fellowship, whoever places the first hit on an enemy gets all the loot from that enemy, but the thing I hate about being in a fellowship is the loot division system, it doesn't matter who hit the enemy first or killed it, you always have the stupid prompt for each item of loot, where it asks the players, do you want to pass the item to the other player or do you want to roll for it. The whole rolling for it thing is stupid, especially when you are the only one that attacked and killed the enemy. The reason I didn't like it is that 9 times out of 10, I wouldn't get the piece of loot. Each time I was in a fellowship, the only loot I got was worthless crap that couldn't be sold for anything more than a couple or three coppers.

I would say that the whole playing with other people thing is one of the main reasons why some people don't like MMOs. Some people play the game for story, but they can't complete it because the game forces them to interact with other players. As stated before, in my experience, there aren't that many people that are helpful allies.
I agree with you on the whole storage thing. That's been a huge problem people like me have in WoW, and when we ask blizzard for more bag slots in the bank, they say "We'll give you bags with 2 more slots in them." when we really need about 10 more bags to store the billions of things we get from holiday events and other world events.

On your thing about single player, I encourage you to look into Star Wars the Old Republic when it comes out. It has been designed to be played almost entirely alone, or with one or 2 friends if you have them. Only the end game content(which no one knows anything about yet) will have multi-player requirements. The rest of the game can be done by yourself. You should probably look into it.