God of War Ragnarok Thread

[Casual Shinji]

I will say that I do really like how in retrospect Tyr being this fervent pacifist is Odin totally ridiculing him. Especially in the sequence where you free him from Svartalfheim, everything he says and does is Odin doing a mock impression of him for being the God of War that believed in peace and diplomacy. "Oh, I don't need a walking stick" says "Tyr" as he's handed a spear to defend himself, implying he's such a weak idiot he doesn't even recognize a weapon when he sees it. As the player we won't spot this initially because we're likely more understanding of a character's past trauma, but once you know Tyr is actually Odin the whole portrayal in retrospect becomes quite mean-spirited. It's pretty good.

On a slightly different note I'm gonna have to throw some shade at Sindri. He becomes all embittered and mad at Atreus and Kratos for what happened to Brok, but I'm sorry buddy, you carry most of the responsibility for what happened to your brother. Sindri is the one who brought back Brok's soul incomplete, never told him about it and let him get shunned by his own people, and made it so that when he died (which was going to happen eventually) he would be refused an afterlife due to said incomplete soul. Which kinda puts a damper on whenever (giant) Fenrir dies as well, huh?

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I will say that I do really like how in retrospect Tyr being this fervent pacifist is Odin totally ridiculing him. Especially in the sequence where you free him from Svartalfheim, everything he says and does is Odin doing a mock impression of him for being the God of War that believed in peace and diplomacy. "Oh, I don't need a walking stick" says "Tyr" as he's handed a spear to defend himself, implying he's such a weak idiot he doesn't even recognize a weapon when he sees it. As the player we won't spot this initially because we're likely more understanding of a character's past trauma, but once you know Tyr is actually Odin the whole portrayal in retrospect becomes quite mean-spirited. It's pretty good.

On a slightly different note I'm gonna have to throw some shade at Sindri. He becomes all embittered and mad at Atreus and Kratos for what happened to Brok, but I'm sorry buddy, you carry most of the responsibility for what happened to your brother. Sindri is the one who brought back Brok's soul incomplete, never told him about it and let him get shunned by his own people, and made it so that when he died (which was going to happen eventually) he would be refused an afterlife due to said incomplete soul. Which kinda puts a damper on whenever (giant) Fenrir dies as well, huh?

Kinda wish I didn’t read this, but yeah that makes sense and is pretty devious. Also the more I watch Thor the more apparent it is how he suffered from being raised with verbal/psychological abuse at the hands of an unloving father and it’s kinda sad. That way that line, “What could he possibly learn from me.” is delivered and the apathetic look he gives Odin just made me feel sorry for him. “Exactly.” is all he can say back, then when pressed by Atreus about why he’s so hard on him he tries to justify it as, “It’s all he understands!”, which in psychology is known as the “fundamental attribution error”.

Idk if the game ever gets to developing what Odin’s excuse is, but considering he’s the “All Father” it really doesn’t lend credence to much soul searching there I guess.


Regarding Sindri, it actually sounds like more psychological dysfunction (just like the Greeks…ain’t mythology grand!) as he’s projecting his own insecurities and anger onto his friends since he’s too weak to own up to his own role in what happened to Brok. Well, he at least admitted his guilt over that early on with Atreus, so maybe there’s some hope in him eventually finding some inner peace.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Kinda wish I didn’t read this, but yeah that makes sense and is pretty devious. Also the more I watch Thor the more apparent it is how he suffered from being raised with verbal/psychological abuse at the hands of an unloving father and it’s kinda sad. That way that line, “What could he possibly learn from me.” is delivered and the apathetic look he gives Odin just made me feel sorry for him. “Exactly.” is all he can say back, then when pressed by Atreus about why he’s so hard on him he tries to justify it as, “It’s all he understands!”, which in psychology is known as the “fundamental attribution error”.

Idk if the game ever gets to developing what Odin’s excuse is, but considering he’s the “All Father” it really doesn’t lend credence to much soul searching there I guess.


Regarding Sindri, it actually sounds like more psychological dysfunction (just like the Greeks…ain’t mythology grand!) as he’s projecting his own insecurities and anger onto his friends since he’s too weak to own up to his own role in what happened to Brok. Well, he at least admitted his guilt over that early on with Atreus, so maybe there’s some hope in him eventually finding some inner peace.

In that first scene where we meet Thor you can already tell he's got some alcoholism issues. He pours two cups of mead out of courtesy, and when he realizes neither Kratos or Atreus are having any he says "You could've told me before I poured", because he's not having any either. Then when Odin shows up you see him pick up the drink infront of Thor and knocking it back down infront of him to suggest he should have a drink. Then when Thor refuses Odin replies with "You're no fun anymore", the typical shitty response to someone who is dealing with alcoholism.

 

[CriticalGaming]

In that first scene where we meet Thor you can already tell he's got some alcoholism issues. He pours two cups of mead out of courtesy, and when he realizes neither Kratos or Atreus are having any he says "You could've told me before I poured", because he's not having any either. Then when Odin shows up you see him pick up the drink infront of Thor and knocking it back down infront of him to suggest he should have a drink. Then when Thor refuses Odin replies with "You're no fun anymore", the typical shitty response to someone who is dealing with alcoholism.

Some of the brilliance of these games is how much subtext they put into scenes that you can pick up on in replays or just reflecting on them later on. It is really awesome when they do that.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I've been thinking about some of my favorite moments in the game. And I have come to the conclusion that this two game saga is one of the best video game stories I've ever played.

Spoiler

The scene where Kratos helps Freya and at the end he says, "I do not regret saving your life, and I never will. But I robbed you of the choice between life and death and I should not have done that. I will never rob you of that choice again." The line is less important than the acting behind it, not just with Kratos but with the look on Freya's face as she struggles with the acceptance of not only his apology but the acknowledgement that she is only alive to hate him, because he saved her. Without his interference she would be dead and the choice Kratos made was between helping an ally or letting an enemy kill that ally.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I've been thinking about some of my favorite moments in the game. And I have come to the conclusion that this two game saga is one of the best video game stories I've ever played.

Spoiler

The scene where Kratos helps Freya and at the end he says, "I do not regret saving your life, and I never will. But I robbed you of the choice between life and death and I should not have done that. I will never rob you of that choice again." The line is less important than the acting behind it, not just with Kratos but with the look on Freya's face as she struggles with the acceptance of not only his apology but the acknowledgement that she is only alive to hate him, because he saved her. Without his interference she would be dead and the choice Kratos made was between helping an ally or letting an enemy kill that ally.

Wa it really “her choice” though, given the circumstances? I think that was his way of explaining it as a damned if you do, damned if you don’t thing. It would’ve been funny instead if Kratos just called out, “So, Freya, would you rather live or die today?!”

 

[CriticalGaming]

Wa it really “her choice” though, given the circumstances? I think that was his way of explaining it as a damned if you do, damned if you don’t thing. It would’ve been funny instead if Kratos just called out, “So, Freya, would you rather live or die today?!”

In that moment I don't think Kratos thought it was much of a choice and he chose the obvious thing to save the life of the woman who saved his son. Regardless of what she might have wanted in that moment or felt in that time. But in retrospect given her anger later maybe he realized that he should have left it to her. He is "trying" to not be a god killer anymore.

 

[BrawlMan]

Wa it really “her choice” though, given the circumstances? I think that was his way of explaining it as a damned if you do, damned if you don’t thing. It would’ve been funny instead if Kratos just called out, “So, Freya, would you rather live or die today?!”

In that moment I don't think Kratos thought it was much of a choice and he chose the obvious thing to save the life of the woman who saved his son. Regardless of what she might have wanted in that moment or felt in that time. But in retrospect given her anger later maybe he realized that he should have left it to her. He is "trying" to not be a god killer anymore.

Asura would have done the same thing to Balder. The only difference is that there would have been a lot more punching. And he would have been a lot more blunt, but understanding.

 

[Adam Jensen]

Some of the brilliance of these games is how much subtext they put into scenes that you can pick up on in replays or just reflecting on them later on. It is really awesome when they do that.

I can think of only one other game that did that to some extent - Deus Ex Human Revolution. But nowhere near this.The writing in GoW:R is top notch.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I can think of only one other game that did that to some extent - Deus Ex Human Revolution. But nowhere near this.The writing in GoW:R is top notch.

There is a funny thing you can do in Vandelheim when you get the tool to change day and night. When you first do it, it's to remove vines blocking your path. A wolf will chase the sun/moon across the sky changing the time of day.

However if you immediately change the time of day again, your companion will ask, "What are you doing, the vines are already gone?" To which Kratoos will reply, "I want to see the wolves again."

If you keep doing it, there are several funny lines that will play. It's fucking great, and it's a good balance of characters actually breaking character for the sake of humor for the player, but also keeping things in universe and cannon enough that it all still fits. It's wonderful. I can't gush about this game enough. It's got FF7Remake levels of playful dialog and that's so cool. Though tbh GoW's dialog is better as much as it hurts me to say it.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

In addition to the "regular" character/story beats, I remember moments where the gameplay tied into what was happening.
I think one of my favorites is... now this is toward the end but clearly this thread has become for those of us that beat the game so SPOILERS WHATEVER

There is this big fight with you as Kratos and Atreus, as you've done before, but this time Atreus turns into that bear on purpose and it ends with this superhero pose. The fight was hella sweet, but it's also the realization at how far Atreus comes with this maturity and powers (which, for him, are two sides of the same coin). And it's a ridiculous movie pose but it's also appropriate for freaking GODS.

The genius of these games is that it creates a human reason to "allow" people of all ages to indulge in the power fantasy without it being fleeting.

Bear hero pose is my favorite gaming moment of 2022.
(Maybe tied with rescuing my sister in Lost In Random, I dunno why that game hit me so hard)

 

[Hades]

I will say that I do really like how in retrospect Tyr being this fervent pacifist is Odin totally ridiculing him. Especially in the sequence where you free him from Svartalfheim, everything he says and does is Odin doing a mock impression of him for being the God of War that believed in peace and diplomacy. "Oh, I don't need a walking stick" says "Tyr" as he's handed a spear to defend himself, implying he's such a weak idiot he doesn't even recognize a weapon when he sees it. As the player we won't spot this initially because we're likely more understanding of a character's past trauma, but once you know Tyr is actually Odin the whole portrayal in retrospect becomes quite mean-spirited. It's pretty good.

On a slightly different note I'm gonna have to throw some shade at Sindri. He becomes all embittered and mad at Atreus and Kratos for what happened to Brok, but I'm sorry buddy, you carry most of the responsibility for what happened to your brother. Sindri is the one who brought back Brok's soul incomplete, never told him about it and let him get shunned by his own people, and made it so that when he died (which was going to happen eventually) he would be refused an afterlife due to said incomplete soul. Which kinda puts a damper on whenever (giant) Fenrir dies as well, huh?

I do like how in retrospect you can really see the trick being played on you, and how it gives a very petty and malicious context to a lot of dialogue, but I also think there's one moment that completely undermines the twist and makes you see it coming from miles away, thus robbing it of much of its impact.

When adventuring with Tyr you discover that the prophesy Odin hears was a lie, and at this moment its instantly obvious who ''Tyr'' is. ''She lied '' he says utterly shocked and seemingly with a hint of betrayal in his voice. Its not amazement or awe but complete shock. At that moment it couldn't have been anyone but Odin. ''Tyr'' says ''she lied'' but its really Odin going ''She lied to ME'' and its way too obvious

 

[CriticalGaming]

I do like how in retrospect you can really see the trick being played on you, and how it gives a very petty and malicious context to a lot of dialogue, but I also think there's one moment that completely undermines the twist and makes you see it coming from miles away, thus robbing it of much of its impact.

When adventuring with Tyr you discover that the prophesy Odin hears was a lie, and at this moment its instantly obvious who ''Tyr'' is. ''She lied '' he says utterly shocked and seemingly with a hint of betrayal in his voice. Its not amazement or awe but complete shock. At that moment it couldn't have been anyone but Odin. ''Tyr'' says ''she lied'' but its really Odin going ''She lied to ME'' and its way too obvious

Tbh the reveal surprised me. I had no clue it was a trick.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I will say that I do really like how in retrospect Tyr being this fervent pacifist is Odin totally ridiculing him. Especially in the sequence where you free him from Svartalfheim, everything he says and does is Odin doing a mock impression of him for being the God of War that believed in peace and diplomacy. "Oh, I don't need a walking stick" says "Tyr" as he's handed a spear to defend himself, implying he's such a weak idiot he doesn't even recognize a weapon when he sees it. As the player we won't spot this initially because we're likely more understanding of a character's past trauma, but once you know Tyr is actually Odin the whole portrayal in retrospect becomes quite mean-spirited. It's pretty good.

On a slightly different note I'm gonna have to throw some shade at Sindri. He becomes all embittered and mad at Atreus and Kratos for what happened to Brok, but I'm sorry buddy, you carry most of the responsibility for what happened to your brother. Sindri is the one who brought back Brok's soul incomplete, never told him about it and let him get shunned by his own people, and made it so that when he died (which was going to happen eventually) he would be refused an afterlife due to said incomplete soul. Which kinda puts a damper on whenever (giant) Fenrir dies as well, huh?

Some dev insight into that -

Guess the, “He snapped” angle works too. Or kinda like the RDR2 theory on how Dutch had that concussion from the cable car accident and went even more off the deep end.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Some dev insight into that -

Guess the, “He snapped” angle works too. Or kinda like the RDR2 theory on how Dutch had that concussion from the cable car accident and went even more off the deep end.

I mean, I understand how it's framed; Sindri is a very nice, supportive individual who gets pushed too far and snaps. But this framing doesn't hold up to what Sindri himself did to Brok, so I can't really feel too much sympathy for the guy. Similar to Freya in '18, the difference there being that her actions were accurately framed as questionable, so that when we see her next to Baldur's corpse the underlying thought is 'Yeah, you kinda did this to yourself Freya'.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Some dev insight into that -

Guess the, “He snapped” angle works too. Or kinda like the RDR2 theory on how Dutch had that concussion from the cable car accident and went even more off the deep end.

Honestly I didn't like that he never comes back from it, because Brok would not have wanted him to be like that and Brok would have called him a cankerwanker or something. So I was really hoping he would have this realization or something post-game and it was a bit disappointing that it doesn't happen. Given the circumstances that the last two games have been him helping Kratos and Atreus develop for this exceptionally dangerous thing, and going against Odin himself he shows no awareness of the danger that seems to truly pose on him and his brother.

Brok has a really great character arc in the game, when he finds out he died and Sindri brought him back incomplete Brok was the guy who didn't even bat an eye at it. Nowhere does Brok think about protecting himself, or getting out of this plot while he can, instead he almost doubles down. And Kratos shares a wonderful moment with him when he needs his spear blessed. On the way the to forge, Brok captures wind and Kratos asks how such a thing is possible. Brok replies and says, "It's not the form of a thing that matters, it's the nature."

So when Kratos holds out the spear to be blessed, Brok says he can't because he's not complete and can't bless shit. Kratos simply says, "It is the nature of the thing that matters. Not it's form." Brok understands and blesses the spear in a wonderfully Brok way, and it's this moment that Brok comes to terms with a lot of things all at once I think. He even goes on to tell Kratos not to bother telling Sindri that Brok now knows what happened and how his soul isn't complete. It doesn't matter and it doesn't change what they are doing.

So this huge understanding from Brok, is sort of undermined by Sindri's lack of understanding. I like the rage and the anger and the transformation of Sindri throughout the end game, because I do think his grief is justified. However the undermining comes from post-game in which Sindri never gets over it. His brother wouldn't want him to be upset with the other people in the group, and it's sad that they never do a scene that has Sindri realize that. I think that a heartwarming scene of Sindri forgiving and accepting his fate would be nice and also allow Sindri to pass the torch to that girl dwarf that Brok had a fling with and who takes over dealing with your gear. Sindri could give it to her, and tell Kratos that he understands and must go on his own journey now in a similar way to Atreus going off on his own and it could have made for a nice parallel.

Little bit of a shame.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I mean, I understand how it's framed; Sindri is a very nice, supportive individual who gets pushed too far and snaps. But this framing doesn't hold up to what Sindri himself did to Brok, so I can't really feel too much sympathy for the guy. Similar to Freya in '18, the difference there being that her actions were accurately framed as questionable, so that when we see her next to Baldur's corpse the underlying thought is 'Yeah, you kinda did this to yourself Freya'.

I think that’s kinda the underlying lesson here, is that they both suck at learning to acknowledge and own their mistakes, let alone learning to live with them. I was getting really miffed with Freya throwing constant shade at Kratos early on in her quest, because I couldn’t stop thinking, “Lady, your precious kid was a big POS to everyone else so he kinda had it coming.”

 

[BrawlMan]

I think that’s kinda the underlying lesson here, is that they both suck at learning to acknowledge and own their mistakes, let alone learning to live with them. I was getting really miffed with Freya throwing constant shade at Kratos early on in her quest, because I couldn’t stop thinking, “Lady, your precious kid was a big POS to everyone else so he kinda had it coming.”

At least multiple characters call her out on this and it is awesome. Even Kratos throws a couple, albeit, he is nicer by comparison to others call outs. The Norns have the best one

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Honestly I didn't like that he never comes back from it, because Brok would not have wanted him to be like that and Brok would have called him a cankerwanker or something. So I was really hoping he would have this realization or something post-game and it was a bit disappointing that it doesn't happen. Given the circumstances that the last two games have been him helping Kratos and Atreus develop for this exceptionally dangerous thing, and going against Odin himself he shows no awareness of the danger that seems to truly pose on him and his brother.

Brok has a really great character arc in the game, when he finds out he died and Sindri brought him back incomplete Brok was the guy who didn't even bat an eye at it. Nowhere does Brok think about protecting himself, or getting out of this plot while he can, instead he almost doubles down. And Kratos shares a wonderful moment with him when he needs his spear blessed. On the way the to forge, Brok captures wind and Kratos asks how such a thing is possible. Brok replies and says, "It's not the form of a thing that matters, it's the nature."

So when Kratos holds out the spear to be blessed, Brok says he can't because he's not complete and can't bless shit. Kratos simply says, "It is the nature of the thing that matters. Not it's form." Brok understands and blesses the spear in a wonderfully Brok way, and it's this moment that Brok comes to terms with a lot of things all at once I think. He even goes on to tell Kratos not to bother telling Sindri that Brok now knows what happened and how his soul isn't complete. It doesn't matter and it doesn't change what they are doing.

So this huge understanding from Brok, is sort of undermined by Sindri's lack of understanding. I like the rage and the anger and the transformation of Sindri throughout the end game, because I do think his grief is justified. However the undermining comes from post-game in which Sindri never gets over it. His brother wouldn't want him to be upset with the other people in the group, and it's sad that they never do a scene that has Sindri realize that. I think that a heartwarming scene of Sindri forgiving and accepting his fate would be nice and also allow Sindri to pass the torch to that girl dwarf that Brok had a fling with and who takes over dealing with your gear. Sindri could give it to her, and tell Kratos that he understands and must go on his own journey now in a similar way to Atreus going off on his own and it could have made for a nice parallel.

Little bit of a shame.

Do you think Sindri knowing that Brok doesn’t hold anything against him and forgives him would’ve made that possible? Maybe Kratos should’ve just told him anyways, or gave a sign of some sort that would’ve helped Sindri come to that realization on his own in the end.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Do you think Sindri knowing that Brok doesn’t hold anything against him and forgives him would’ve made that possible? Maybe Kratos should’ve just told him anyways, or gave a sign of some sort that would’ve helped Sindri come to that realization on his own in the end.

I mean probably something should have been said, but Kratos couldn't say anything because Sindri just kept bouncing everytime they where near each other. So Kratos didn't have much chance to say anything.

But Sindri should know his brother at this point too. Regardless of forgiveness on Brok's end, Sindri should know that his brother would call him a pussy and tell him to knock that shit off. In a way it really dishonors Brok by his behavior. Especially since Sindri probably feels at fault because he couldn't bring Brok back completely so his soul is forever lost or whatever, it could spurn Sindri to undertake a journey to find a way to bring him back.

Oh hey here's a DLC idea. Sindri tells Kratos his intention to find a way ANYWAY to get Brok's soul some peace and Kratos kneals before him and puts a hand on his shoulder, "You and your brother aided us through all things, even without knowing us, you've given everything and anything we needed without question. If you go to give your brother peace, I go with you." Boom DLC of Kratos and Sindri fucking up Helhiem let's go!