Goddamnit Bioware

[Kahunaburger]

snip

Well, what specifically did you like less about, say, the ME2 story compared to previous Bioware titles?

It'd be a giant fucking list that at 2:00 am I don't have time for now that I've finally finished collecting data on charities aided by celebrity endorsements.

So I'll try and do it succinctly but properly:

ME2 failed because it stacked the game with one-dimensional characters.
Bioware does predictable characters, but it gives them interaction and depth.
ME2 failed to establish this because each character was a 'one-issue' pony. So one-issue were they that it was pretty much the only thing you could talk to them about outside of "What do you think of the current mission?"
Even the original Mass Effect, which introduced the character wheel, gave you the ability to talk about 'useless trivia'. To ask them questions about their lives that were unrelated to the story or even their character. They had depth because they had a 'life' beyond the gameworld.
The most interesting characters in the franchise - Wrex and Legion - were shuffled off in to tiny corners. You caught glimpses of them. Legion was so badly placed that if you didn't play the game "properly" you wouldn't be able to do his character mission without suffering during the final mission, but if you didn't do it then he could die.

As for DA2, I think images are all I need:
snip

Isabella on the left. Sensibly dressed in armor.

snip
Isabella dressed in a potato sack. Also, dyed her hair and got a serious tan somewhere.

Don't get me started on the Qunari.

It was all the problems Mass Effect 2 had compounded with some seriously retarded Art Design that took Dragon Age away from 'high fantasy' and in to 'final fantasy' complete with fan service.

I think the ME2 criticisms you make are fair. IMHO some of the best characterization is for Zaeed and Kasumi (and arguably Joker) - the little sound bytes do a lot more to humanize them than a stack of dialogue trees would.

The thing that excuses the "one issue" thing to me is that the one issue for each character is handled well. The loyalty missions are a very effective storytelling mechanism for a character-driven squad game, and add a lot of gameplay variety. I'd argue that even with the "one-issue" problem, ME2 tells better stories than Jade Empire or even Dragon Age: Origins by sticking to consistent mini-themes within the loyalty missions. (Although Dragon Age: Origins gets major points for actually having interaction, however limited, between characters.)

 

[Nfritzappa]

Where is this crazy idea coming from that they're taking out stats from ME3!?!?

Christina Norman clearly stated herself that:
"I was misrepresented in an article recently, which made it sound like I wanted to remove RPG elements and stats from combat. What I actually said was, I wanted RPG progression to have a more meaningful impact on combat, but that was misrepresented as "cutting rpg stats" we actually have more stats in me3 that affect combat, and the overall impact of rpg progress on combat is greater."


Idiots.

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

It's amazing how every little annoyance warrants it's own thread.

"Oh god, I'm so tired of all the ponies!"

"Bioware's actually attempting to have enjoyable gameplay? HOW DARE THEY!"

"Jimquisition needs to get off the Escapist solely because I don't like him!"

"I'm angry about another person's post in a different thread!"

"Day-One DLC? Valve has ruined everything FOREVER!"

I swear....

OT: If you're so damned upset, don't play Bioware's games.

 

[DRSH1989]

Mass Effect 2 is great!
Put up or shut up!

Please don't hurt me *runs away*.

 

[linkvegeta]

i was mad at bioware too until i looked into it more and found out that its all EA's fault. EA rushes them with ridiculous deadlines.

 

[sgtshock]

While I disagree with the OP that Bioware's storytelling is lacking (at least for ME2, I never played DA2), I respect that he's actually complaining about something that matters. I'm tired of people complaining that the new Mass Effect games are ruined forever because they dumbed down the inventory or because they're making combat based on skill and fun rather than dice rolls.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I can agree with that.

ME2 had too many party members, and the depth of their character suffered because of it. Though I still liked most of them... except for Jack and Jacob ofcourse. But DA2 had it even worse since all the characters there were bland and forgettable.

The real problem I have with both these games is that I never feel like I'm actually crafting my own story, I'm simply following someone else's story and deciding whether to react happy or mad to whatever's happening on a predetermined path.

 

[theultimateend]

Finally someone else who feels the same way I do about Bioware's most recent ventures. I remain silent however as I do not wish to be lynched by the community.

... Are you in the same Escapist as I am?

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm in the Escapist that has a lot of Bioware fans...

Nah those are just people that call themselves fans so they can put themselves in the victim role and act all wronged and betrayed.

It's funny because it is a really popular debate tool here haha.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Wow, you can almost smell the hyperbole inducing nostalgia...

As epic story and environments go you can't get much better than the fate of the entire freaking Galaxy, with nigh on a hundred different planets per game to explore out there.

'The characters have been dull' I'm sorry? Was Tali dull? Was Legion, Thane, Wrex? Did you bother having conversations with any of these characters?

'The designs have been stagnant' ... WHAT?

I'm not completely unreasonable, I acknowledge that whether Bioware stories have deteriorated slightly over the years is a matter of opinion. But to dismiss them as complete rubbish, especially when compared to what most other game companies consider satisfactory, is ludicrous exaggeration. Also, a game (specifically an RPG) without decent gameplay is a movie, and not a particularly good movie either.

Fully 100% agree. I absolutely love the Mass Effect series story line and its characters. My favorite story and characters out of any game series.
I'm not sure if I'm more excited for ME3 or Skyrim.

 

[70R4N]

People who say that the "story" in latest Bioware games is awesome probably don't know what a good story actually is. That beeing said, Bioware still makes better stories than most developers today. I mostly agree with the OP, but SOME of the characters are actually good. Not all of them are stereotypes.
DA2 elves sucked, in fact DA2 sucked balls.
Anyway Bioware writes the same story over and over again with minor differences, and now that they had something interesting with DA2 the f**k it up. WTF?

Oh, and this:
http://www.cracked.com/funny-3872-bioware/

And I will still buy Mass Effect 3.

 

[linwolf]

It's amazing how every little annoyance warrants it's own thread.

"Oh god, I'm so tired of all the ponies!"

"Bioware's actually attempting to have enjoyable gameplay? HOW DARE THEY!"

"Jimquisition needs to get off the Escapist solely because I don't like him!"

"I'm angry about another person's post in a different thread!"

"Day-One DLC? Valve has ruined everything FOREVER!"

I swear....

OT: If you're so damned upset, don't play Bioware's games.

I could have sworn that this was a game discussion forum, as in talk about things we like or dislike about game related issues. But if I am mistaken please do tell me.

 

[NickCooley]

I was about to launch into a lengthy counter argument but then I forgot my own advice back from the "Haters gonna hate" thread.

Well the thing with the phrase is, you could get all riled up and get into a long winded, pointless argument about why you like X when another person says they hate X. Or you could just shrug your shoulders and...

[gif snipped for less mess]

So yeah, with my shoulders throughly shrugged.

And since I can see the Protip coming, just because you avoided actually using the word doesn't make this any less of a hate thread.

 

[TilMorrow]

I actually found the OP's post funny after reading who had posted it. Of course someone with troll in their name will never attempt to troll people over a popular topic via hate on a site that some people enjoy talking about the topic.

Also James Cameron elves? What?

My point is pretty much... TROLL PIT LOCATED PLEASE MOVE ALONG OR BE RAGED AT.

Edit: Off-topic: I just realise I got my 666th post... lol I'm not posting for a while now.

 

[Athinira]

People still talk about the original Baldur's Gate games, and it has little to nothing to do with the gameplay.

Wrong. People just like to talk more about the world than they like to describe the gameplay, even if the gameplay is the driving factor of the experience (even the best setting can be ruined completely by lousy gameplay).

People still talk about Baldur's Gate because it has alot of replay value, og replay value has EVERYTHING to do with amazing gameplay, since any story/setting/world gets old after you've replayed it alot of times. If any game has amazing replay value, 75% of the reason is always because the gameplay is great (or at the very least adequate) enough to experience over and over again, even though you know what goes down. Thats why people can still play FPS games (CoD, CS) and MMO's over and over without getting tired and burned out.

Not that the above detracts from your point about Baldur's Gate having an absolutely amazing world and characters, which also makes it attractive, but if you think it has nothing to do with it's amazing gameplay (which i could compare point to point with, say, Dragon Age, and Baldur's Gate would win on almost every point) then you've earned yourself a big epic /facepalm.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Dragon Age 2 is BioWare's most accomplished game in terms of themes and characters.
Not a popular opinion, but I think it's worth saying after all the ridiculous hostility that game had to suffer.

 

[kiwisushi]

Couldn't disagree more with the elves in DA2. I thought that the aesthetic was far better than usual. I'm sick of "pretty" elves. Also, stroke of genius voicing them over Irish (and welsh, though predominantly Irish!) as those accents fit elves better due to the language elves speak being derived of Welsh and Gaelic historically.

 

[kiwisushi]

Couldn't disagree more with the elves in DA2. I thought that the aesthetic was far better than usual. I'm sick of "pretty" elves. Also, stroke of genius voicing them over Irish (and welsh, though predominantly Irish!) as those accents fit elves better due to the language elves speak being derived of Welsh and Gaelic historically.

Sorry, posted twice!

 

[Kahunaburger]

Dragon Age 2 is BioWare's most accomplished game in terms of themes and characters.
Not a popular opinion, but I think it's worth saying after all the ridiculous hostility that game had to suffer.

That's an interesting position on this forum - how so? (Not arguing, just curious - I've never played DA2 and all I know about the story is the framing device.)

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

HAHAHAHA, I continue to laugh at how people went from

"OMG Bioware iz best RPG maker in world!! Have my babies Bioware!" up until the minute before Dragon Age 2 launched,

to "OMG, Bioware is disgusting filthy, worthless shit that hasn't released a good game in 7 years!!! Must make Hate thread!" 2 hours after it launched.

Oh internet, you crowd of fickle-minded hypocritical fuck-tards, you....X3

Read OP and get back to me.

Oh no I get what you've said roughly 70 times before in this thread (~50% of the posts, in other words) which is that you're not "hating on Bioware."

Firstly I was announcing a general observation+opinion. However it WAS also directed at you because, don't beat around the bloody bush, you ARE hating on Bioware, aren't you?

You say Bioware haven't made a decent storyline since Baldur's gate 2. You may not like the Amazing Stories in Mass effect and Dragon Age, but that doesn't change the fact that they are some of the most lauded story arcs in recent gaming history. It's either excellent stuff like this or "Stubbly McShortBrownHair commits righteous Genocide of a foreign nation for America/FREEDOM!!". It's all just a little bit out of context is all I'm saying. "Don't know a good thing till it's GONE", if you know what I mean?

Also, I didn't see you and your hater buddies spamming the net when Mass Effect 2, a game that allegedly was when Bioware proved itself to be filth, was heralded as a veritable messiah of good characterization and story telling. Don't get me wrong, I didn't like ME2's story much either, and I thought it had other flaws.....but it did other things right, and as a sum of it's parts, it was an excellent game.

So I humbly request you to not jump on the "Dragon age 2 is satan-spawn" bandwagon. (btw, DA2's story? Not that bad at all. The first act is boring and repetitive, but overall it's really good allegory of alienation and societal double standards. Waaay better than "Stubbly shortbrown-you-know-the-deal-right?")

 

[rt052192]

I've always been more of a Bethesda kind of guy anyway, but I'm still gonna buy mass effect 3 once I finish both 1 and 2 first. Yea I kinda missed the train with this series. Just started playing a few days ago.