Good Riddance, Fred Phelps: 5 Pivotal Moments For LGBTs In Comics

LiMaSaRe

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RossaLincoln said:
I swear I don't mean to offend
In the future, when you want to avoid offense, I'd recommend not saying good riddance of a man whose corpse is barely cold.
If the Westboro Baptists are most famous for disrespecting funerals, then you have quite deliberately set yourself on the same moral level.
 

RossaLincoln

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ChristopherT said:
when Hitler left this world the war soon ended
Not quite, because Japan wasn't all that impressed and had to be nuked.

Zira said:
Isn't it a bit like saying "let's bring all nazis in concentration camps and torture them"? Isn't it.... becoming the bigotism you're supposedly hating?
There was a plan by Jews to kill millions by poisoning tap water systems in major West German cities. Yes, it was after the war.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/26/second.world.war

He spoke passionately, invoking Psalm 94, in which God promises that he shall deal with the enemies of the people of Israel: "He will repay them for their iniquity and wipe them out for their wickedness." This, Kovner suggested, was the fate that should be meted out to the Germans.
Btw, Phelps subscribed to a similarily fundamentalist form of Judeochristianity.

Kovner sought moral backing for his project, travelling to Palestine to consult the leaders of the Jewish state-in-waiting. He met Chaim Weizmann, who would become Israel's first president and who had begun his career (at Manchester University) as a research chemist. Once Weizmann heard from Kovner the horrors of the Holocaust, he could mount no resistance: he gave his blessing to the Avengers, even offering them help in acquiring the poison. (Several sources suggest Weizmann approved only Plan B, rather than the more deadly, and arbitrary, Plan A.)
Geez, guys. You're not helping your reputation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_poisoning#Medieval_accusations_against_Jews

Yet Plan A never happened. Kovner, with two canisters of poison in his backpack, was arrested by British military police while on a ship bound for Europe: he had been betrayed. The Avengers came to believe that the highest echelons of the Zionist hierarchy had heard of Plan A and were determined to thwart it, not least because they feared such a massive slaughter would fatally undermine the moral claim Zionism was making after the Holocaust - that as a people who had endured near-annihilation, the Jews had won the right to a home of their own.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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earnestp said:
I say we should celebrate his death EVERY YEAR, and we should do it by celebrating the ways in which our society has become more tolerant. Make this post the first of such celebrations.
You do realize that in doing so you'd be carrying on his legacy of hate by giving the WBC a yearly dose of attention. Attention that would lead to people hearing their hate.

So you'd be helping their cause in essence.


Bravo, you've found me another reason why celebrating someone's death is asinine.

Edit:
First, no amount of good work that Phelps did early in his life mitigates the work that he did later.
Tell that to the people who's lives he saved by representing them in the Jim Crow era when no one else would. It's not about mitigating the mans works. It's about looking at his life as a whole.
 

TAGM

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The irony of it all: One of the first times I've seen LGBTs in comics discussed here in any sort of positive light, and it's ultimately only done so you - and I suppose all of us as well, considering the comments - can do a metaphorical fandango on someone's grave while the body is still warm enough.

I mean, as much as I disagreed with his opinions and such, I can't help but keep thinking that he's a human being. I'm not asking that we all suddenly morn him as if he's a great man, but we don't all need to line up and continue shitting on his headstone before the body's even cold, surely. A modicum of decorum is all I ask, and hell, you don't even need to do that. Continue calling him a hateful bigot if you want; he defiantly did enough to earn that credit.
But we almost definitely Don't need to start dragging LGBT representation through this dirt as some sort of "har har fuck you" kinda thing. Now I can't help but think that my thinking of these comics and the good things they did is going to be forever tempered by the thought that someone fought to the death against them and people waved them in his barely-dead face going "HAR HAR YOU FUCKING FAILED YOU IDIOTIC CUNTFLAP! SUCK ON THE DEVIL'S PITCHFORK YOU HATEFUL SCUM!"

I'm not asking that everyone suddenly change your emotions: That's impossible. I'm not even saying that not keeping quiet is a bad thing to do. It's more that keeping quiet is a good thing to do, if you get me - the more moral action. I say again: Not keeping quiet, spewing hatred and bile at a man you hate and feel deserves bile? Perfectly acceptable. Understandable. But rising above that? Considering him just, in the end, a man worthy of at least peaceful rest? Well, that just feels more right to me. Even if he did cause problems to others, it's ultimately something he wasn't 100% in control of: His beliefs, and the passion he had for those beliefs, and the actions he took because of said passion, it all seems like it was almost inevitable. He's not a monster: more a lost man.
 

RossaLincoln

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Zeterai said:
I may be wrong, but hadn't that guy protested funerals in the past or some such? I don't feel bad about celebrating his - personally, I'm just of the opinion that disrespecting others who have died makes you completely fair game to be disrespected when you do.
And I freely encourage people who hate me to make fun of me when I die if my life's work is a complete failure. Of course, I won't have spent my life devoted to the eradication of rights for an entire group of people, but ok.
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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In this thread: People who normally claim that morality is relative suddenly claim that a moral standard exists in order to justify their burning hate.
 

vagabondwillsmile

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RossaLincoln said:
Good Riddance, Fred Phelps: 5 Pivotal Moments For LGBTs In Comics

To mark the passing of a bigot, let's look at how gay people have fared on the pages of American comic books.

Read Full Article
I owe you a belated appology. I had no idea the extent of just how horrible this group and its leaders are at the time I posted. Anyway, disregard any and all criticism - constructive as I intended it to be - in my previous post. My apologies.