GOT: That Sansa scene (spoilers)

[lechat]

I was kinda hoping someone else would open this can of worms but anyway here goes.

I briefly glanced at a click bait article about how game of thrones played off the rape scene just for the lolz and what scum bags the producers were for having a rape scene "lightly" added for pure entertainment value which raised a few questions.

For starters was it rape? And I instantly feel like shit for asking that question because I think we all know she wasn't exactly thrilled with the circumstances but when you start talking about these kinds of royal arranged marriages based on convenience there starts to be a kinda grey area between rape and just having a disgusting forced husband that you reluctantly sleep with because it's your duty.

The next question is about rape as entertainment. I found the scene fairly uncomfortable especially since Sansa is one of my favourite characters and I wanted something better for her but life's not fair, people are scum and the game of thrones world is brutal so I don't think the producers should shy away from the topic especially if it leads to good character development and gives us another villain to hate like joffrey.

EDIT: really sorry about the spoilers guys.

 

[Zhukov]

Was it rape by modern standards? Yeah. Absolutely. Consent under duress is not consent.

Was it rape by the standards of the setting? Nope.

As for the scene itself? Meh. The show has properly gone down the shitter at this point. I was distracted by the fact that it made no fucking sense for the Boltons to be marrying Sansa. Y'know, what with her be suspected of regicide and all.

 

[manic_depressive13]

Are you asking if it was rape, or if it would have been considered rape in the context it's supposed to be set in? The answer to the latter is "no", because until very recently it wasn't even considered possible to rape your wife. She was your wife. By modern sensibilities, yes it was rape. I don't understand how a "disgusting forced husband" you have to sleep with is a "grey area". They depicted rape. Rapey rape.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

It was there to make us hate Ramsay even more, shock value more than "entertainment".

Also she knew exactly what she was getting into but it was still rape.

I was distracted by the fact that it made no fucking sense for the Boltons to be marrying Sansa.

To have a legitimate claim to the North, rather than "just" King Joffrey'/Tywin' blessing/decree...

 

[Zhukov]

I was distracted by the fact that it made no fucking sense for the Boltons to be marrying Sansa.

To have a legitimate claim to the North, rather than "just" King Joffrey'/Tywin' blessing/decree...

They already have the North.

By marrying a suspected regicide they compromise their relationship with the Lannisters, the people who gave them the North in the first place.

In the books they find some random girl who looks a bit like Arya Stark, claim that she is Arya, then marry her instead. Makes much more sense.

 

[Ronald Nand]

Anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to the show should have seen the scene coming, unless Stanis broke in a took Winterfell before the marriage the marriage was definitely going to happen and thus the 'bedding ceremony' would occur. Did people think Ramsey was going to nice like Tyrion and wait till Sansa was ready?

Not having the scene in, would be a disservice to the character and the viewers, you can't just skip over a traumatic event like that and say it happened off screen. No sane person would find the scene arousing and the show was definitely portraying Ramsey as a monster, so the scene wasn't entertainment it was meant to be horrifying, thinking otherwise is a stupid knee jerk reaction.

If this event didn't cement the viewers hatred for Ramsey, I don't know what will. Joffrey is a little kitten compared to the cruelty of Ramsey, I look forward to seeing his death in something like Season 7, given how long detestable characters like Ramsey live in the show.

By the way your title is a pretty obvious spoiler, you should probably change it, not everyone is up to date on Game of Thrones.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

They already have the North.

By marrying a suspected regicide they compromise their relationship with the Lannisters, the people who gave them the North in the first place.

In the books they find some random girl who looks a bit like Arya Stark, claim that she is Arya, then marry her instead. Makes much more sense.

"Only" by law not popular opinion, which is heavely emphasized in the story - "The North remembers" and all that. If they can get a real Stark to sanctify the marriage, the better. Why have a fake when you cna have the real thing?

 

[Zhukov]

They already have the North.

By marrying a suspected regicide they compromise their relationship with the Lannisters, the people who gave them the North in the first place.

In the books they find some random girl who looks a bit like Arya Stark, claim that she is Arya, then marry her instead. Makes much more sense.

"Only" by law not popular opinion, which is heavely emphasized in the story - "The North remembers" and all that. If they can get a real Stark to sanctify the marriage, the better. Why have a fake when you cna have the real thing?

Because the real thing is suspected of regicide. Y'know, by the royal family.

Not sure how many times I have to repeat that.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

Because the real thing is suspected of regicide. Y'know, by the royal family.

Not sure how many times I have to repeat that.

Miss read what you first wrote about the Lannisters, I understand your point better now, they can always discard her afterwards.

Also you had only said it once.

 

[Kopikatsu]

I find it really strange that people are bent out of shape about a rape scene in a series where good, innocent people are murdered and flayed left and right.

If you can stomach people being brutalized for your entertainment, I don't see why rape is any different.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Rape scenes are a dime a dozen these days, it's the fact that Sansa is being a victim... again that really pisses me off. I'm so fucking tired of this character now. Season 4 ended with Sansa apparently taking somekind of stand and no longer taking the abuse, but here we are again...

Seriously, have her go through some sort of arch or just kill her and be done with it, because this is just getting annoying.

 

[kasperbbs]

Why is that so shocking after what Ramsey did with.. Reek? i forgot his actual name. There were plenty of worse things happening in this show than this short off screen scene.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Because the real thing is suspected of regicide. Y'know, by the royal family.

Not sure how many times I have to repeat that.

Which the North doesn't really care about. The Boltons probably think they'll be able to placate the Lannisters. They're well-aware the lion lost its teeth when Tywin died.

Rape scenes are a dime a dozen these days, it's the fact that Sansa is being a victim... again that really pisses me off. I'm so fucking tired of this character now. Season 4 ended with Sansa apparently taking somekind of stand and no longer taking the abuse, but here we are again...

Seriously, have her go through some sort of arch or just kill her and be done with it, because this is just getting annoying.

That's a fair point. I remember earlier in the season when Littlefinger broke her the news it'd grant her the possibility of revenge. Her steely expression was really promising something cool for her character arc. But that sort of got stomped in the ground there. But maybe we'll get some kind of sudden turn-around GoT is known for. At least I hope so.

You can't exactly expect Ramsey to suddenly play nice either. But to see the "Being abused by a lord" storyline again? Meh. I do however like that she's pretty uppity against Ramsey straight away. Well, maybe not any more after last episode...

 

[Fox12]

Rape scenes are a dime a dozen these days, it's the fact that Sansa is being a victim... again that really pisses me off. I'm so fucking tired of this character now. Season 4 ended with Sansa apparently taking somekind of stand and no longer taking the abuse, but here we are again...

Seriously, have her go through some sort of arch or just kill her and be done with it, because this is just getting annoying.

I just looked up the controversy on google. Jesus that was creepy, but not for the reasons mentioned. I just see the producers staring at Sophie turner with their pants down, counting down the days on the calendar until her 18th birthday.

It wasn't even effective as drama. I understand that GoT has always been based around shock value, but it feels like they're just trying to desperately up the ante in order to stay relevant. The best stories space out shocking moments. They work because they're so few and far between. GoT just seems to try and do it every episode. I'll probably finish the books, but I stopped caring about the show a while ago.

 

[Erttheking]

Why is that so shocking after what Ramsey did with.. Reek? i forgot his actual name. There were plenty of worse things happening in this show than this short off screen scene.

Personally I feel like the show is trying to delve into "shocking" territory now. All reaction, little substance. Sansa being with the Boltons makes no goddamn sense. It makes no sense for Littlefinger to let her out of his sight, it makes no sense for the Boltons to not assume that she'll want revenge for the death of Robb and her mother, it doesn't make any sense in terms of meeting up with Stannis (Wouldn't a Stark riding out to meet Stannis be a great way to rally the North under his banner? Instead of sitting on her ass waiting for him to come to her?) And like Zhukov said, it makes no sense for the Boltons to be pissing off the Lannisters by marrying someone suspected of Regicide.

Reek was a character arc. This was "Sansa is gonna get raped because EDGY" It pretty much spits on the development that she had last season. "Sansa is going to be taking a stand and be more proactive! WHOOPS! CHANGED OUR MIND! She's going to be a helpless victim. AGAIN!" Seriously that's basically the only character Sansa has at this point. Being a victim. Theon had a character with the whole Greyjoy vs Stark thing, which is why it hurt to bad to see that peeled away, leaving only Reek. It was a fall. Sansa feels like everything that happened with Joffery on repeat with a slightly different psycho and he actually followed through on the rape threat.

TL;DR: They didn't DO anything with it. They basically went "Sansa got raped and that's bad because Ramsay is evil" Yeah, because I was struggling to get that with all the ways it's been crammed down our fucking throats.

 

[GoodOmens]

Yo, man, change the title! Spoilers much? Not everybody is up to date on GoT. At least change it to something that doesn't say what character it is. Use a codename like people did for prior events, like "Red Wedding".

"The Red Bedding"?

 

[shrekfan246]

I don't even watch the show, but I'm going to echo what other people have said: Change your title. It's incredibly poor taste to spoil something that big and that recent on a fairly active public forum where people have no way of avoiding seeing what you've written.

That aside, I'm going to agree with Grey Carter. From what I understand of what the show did, largely the same scene happened in the books but a big point was that it happened to a character who isn't actually highborn. It sounds like in the show they're just victimizing Sansa for the sake of victimizing.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Rape scenes are a dime a dozen these days, it's the fact that Sansa is being a victim... again that really pisses me off. I'm so fucking tired of this character now. Season 4 ended with Sansa apparently taking somekind of stand and no longer taking the abuse, but here we are again...

Seriously, have her go through some sort of arch or just kill her and be done with it, because this is just getting annoying.

That's a fair point. I remember earlier in the season when Littlefinger broke her the news it'd grant her the possibility of revenge. Her steely expression was really promising something cool for her character arc. But that sort of got stomped in the ground there. But maybe we'll get some kind of sudden turn-around GoT is known for. At least I hope so.

Nah, we'll probably just have Brienne infiltrate the place to rescue Sansa with Theon aiding the escape and taking the heat, thereby absolving himself of some of his sins and showing Sansa that he's still kind of a good guy.

Or maybe there're actually going to drag out this 4th chapter of Sansa the Footstool to the very end of the season. I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[tyriless]

Why is that so shocking after what Ramsey did with.. Reek? i forgot his actual name. There were plenty of worse things happening in this show than this short off screen scene.

Reek was a character arc. This was "Sansa is gonna get raped because EDGY" It pretty much spits on the development that she had last season. "Sansa is going to be taking a stand and be more proactive! WHOOPS! CHANGED OUR MIND! She's going to be a helpless victim. AGAIN!" Seriously that's basically the only character Sansa has at this point. Being a victim. Theon had a character with the whole Greyjoy vs Stark thing, which is why it hurt to bad to see that peeled away, leaving only Reek. It was a fall. Sansa feels like everything that happened with Joffery on repeat with a slightly different psycho and he actually followed through on the rape threat.

TL;DR: They didn't DO anything with it. They basically went "Sansa got raped and that's bad because Ramsay is evil" Yeah, because I was struggling to get that with all the ways it's been crammed down our fucking throats.

Here is crux of my problem as well. As I was watching the rape scene (and yes, that scene is the definition of rape no matter when it happens or what world you set it in) I was wondering, "Why is this happening? What purpose does this serve?" Every horrible moment before hand had a purpose to it. The Red Wedding and the beheading of Ned was about the downfall of the Stark men do to their putting honor over their practicality. The rape of Deanery's in season 1 was to demonstrate she was victim that would become a conqueror. With all that Sansa has endured (two previous sexual assaults included), her complete lack of agency in season 1 to most of season 4 this was excessive. Add in that we already know what kind of people Littlefinger and the Boltons, are it was also pointless. Factor in that all of Sansa season 4-5 agency got sacrificed on the alter of Reek's impedance to get his shit together, and it's cliche. Finally, last but not least, it wasn't Sansa that got raped in the book, so it's needless.

and I would still give the show a pass if the director better handled it.

We didn't need to see the dress ripped off, Sansa thrown face down on the bed, hear her cries of pain and dismay as we watch Reek look on in horror. All that could have been handled easily with a cut to black and then show the aftermath. Because of that, it was gratuitous and done for shock value.


So the scene was excessive, pointless, cliche, needless, and gratuitous and it's soured me on the show.

But hey, if you still enjoy the show then great. I don't think anyone's demanding to take it off the air nor do I think it can only be enjoyed by degenerates. If you can get past or don't have a problem with it's handling of violence against women there are some really awesome characters to appreciate, many of whom I'm going to miss. Just don't tell me that my turning off the show is somehow hypocritical or overly sensitive. It's entertainment that no can longer entertain me.