Would you rather they cook up some bullshit probably-out-of-character reason for why he wouldn't rape her? I mean that scene seemed like the natural progression of the scenes thusfar.erttheking said:
GOT: That Sansa scene (spoilers)
- Thread starter lechat
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I would've preferred that they never wrote this stupid scene in the first place. It's completely and utterly contrived and doesn't mesh with the plot. Just like half the scenes in the show so far. Really the series has just gone down the drain, completely ignoring entire sub plots from the books despite being desperate for content and trying to cram two books, 2,000 pages worth of material, into one season. While constantly adding their own made up stuff.WhiteNachos said:
Really, this season is just a god damn trainwreck.
It probably has to do with the fact that her even being in winterfell, married to a Bolton makes no sense for her character, Littlefinger's character, or in universe logic. She is a suspected regicide, she's the most wanted person in westeros after Tyrion. The Boltons owe their power entirely to the Lannisters and wouldn't risk their relationship with them by marrying Ramsay to Sansa. As for Sansa's character, she wouldn't go through with it either, in the books she's contemplating suicide so she won't have to marry Joffrey, and hell, he only killed one member of her family. Likewise. Little finger is a smart man, basically the #2 spymaster in westeros. He knows about the. Boltons, they have a very widely known rep, Ramsay especially. He legitimately cares about Sansa (after all she is the spitting image of a woman he never got over) and despises the Boltons for killing Catelyn. At this point they've simply replaced Sansa for another character entirely for no reason other than that the writers "loved the Jeyne Poole plot line" which imo is creepy as fuck considering it's pretty inconsequential to the plot and overall pretty disgusting.Kopikatsu said:
See most people angry about the scene are angry not because it's a rape scene, but because it makes no sense in universe, the fact that the show regularly uses rape for cheap shock or even background elements (crasters keep) just adds fuel to the fire.
But the Boltons wouldn't want to marry Sansa, she's a suspected regicide!
Do the Boltons know?
Okay.. ravens, but seriously.. First of all, and this is a broader peeve so let's deal with it first, the ravens make absolutely no sense. You may as well go through the entire book series and replace all mention of "raven" with the word "cellphone" because that's what they are. They're a magical way for people to communicate over long distances when they shouldn't be able to.
Carrier pigeons work because some breeds of pigeons have an innate instinct to return to the same nest in order to breed. Precisely how they do it is still not completely known, but regardless they can and its pretty amazing and was very useful at one point. Ravens are likewise pretty amazing animals which can perform many feats of intelligence, but they a) do not have a homing instinct and b) even if they were some magical breed of homing ravens, would not be able to understand where they were supposed to go. Unless a maester has a raven trained to fly to every location in Westeros, they're not going to be able to use them to communicate in the fashion they are shown to.
Secondly, suspending disbelief on the magical corvids, has everyone been told that Sansa is a suspected regicide? To my memory (which may be wrong) it doesn't seem to have come up in any conversation that this is public knowledge, furthermore, even assuming it is public knowledge down in King'd Landing, why would the Boltons (or anyone in the North) be told? What's the message going to be? "hey, you know that girl who is technically the rightful heir to your stupid "king in the north" title and who we'd effectively been keeping hostage.. well, we lost her. I guess we're dumb like that!"
If you're going purely by rational logic, it makes no sense to tell anyone. Tyrion took the fall, and his assumed responsibility at least makes the Lannisters look semi-competent as well as getting rid of a family member noone liked. Even Cersei doesn't actually seem interested in the idea of bringing Sansa to justice so much as just having her tortured and killed, and generally you don't need to tell anyone you're doing that.
Sure, this is speculation here.. but let's consider one thing. The Boltons don't seem to know that Sansa is already married, which means they presumably don't know that Tyrion is alive.
Maybe something in the books contradicts this, but then.. cellphone ravens. Books can be pretty dumb too.
Also in "things in the books that totally don't make sense", Dorne. Just.. Dorne. A fiercely independent country whose own succession system basically ensures it would, in reality, almost certainly cease to be independent within a few generations, because inheritence =/= lineality.
Do the Boltons know?
Okay.. ravens, but seriously.. First of all, and this is a broader peeve so let's deal with it first, the ravens make absolutely no sense. You may as well go through the entire book series and replace all mention of "raven" with the word "cellphone" because that's what they are. They're a magical way for people to communicate over long distances when they shouldn't be able to.
Carrier pigeons work because some breeds of pigeons have an innate instinct to return to the same nest in order to breed. Precisely how they do it is still not completely known, but regardless they can and its pretty amazing and was very useful at one point. Ravens are likewise pretty amazing animals which can perform many feats of intelligence, but they a) do not have a homing instinct and b) even if they were some magical breed of homing ravens, would not be able to understand where they were supposed to go. Unless a maester has a raven trained to fly to every location in Westeros, they're not going to be able to use them to communicate in the fashion they are shown to.
Secondly, suspending disbelief on the magical corvids, has everyone been told that Sansa is a suspected regicide? To my memory (which may be wrong) it doesn't seem to have come up in any conversation that this is public knowledge, furthermore, even assuming it is public knowledge down in King'd Landing, why would the Boltons (or anyone in the North) be told? What's the message going to be? "hey, you know that girl who is technically the rightful heir to your stupid "king in the north" title and who we'd effectively been keeping hostage.. well, we lost her. I guess we're dumb like that!"
If you're going purely by rational logic, it makes no sense to tell anyone. Tyrion took the fall, and his assumed responsibility at least makes the Lannisters look semi-competent as well as getting rid of a family member noone liked. Even Cersei doesn't actually seem interested in the idea of bringing Sansa to justice so much as just having her tortured and killed, and generally you don't need to tell anyone you're doing that.
Sure, this is speculation here.. but let's consider one thing. The Boltons don't seem to know that Sansa is already married, which means they presumably don't know that Tyrion is alive.
Maybe something in the books contradicts this, but then.. cellphone ravens. Books can be pretty dumb too.
Also in "things in the books that totally don't make sense", Dorne. Just.. Dorne. A fiercely independent country whose own succession system basically ensures it would, in reality, almost certainly cease to be independent within a few generations, because inheritence =/= lineality.
evilthecat said:
There are significant limitations for individual Ravens, which are only gone into in depth in the Theon preview chapter we have for The Winds of Winter. Essentially, individual Ravens cannot go wherever their masters want: they are usually trained for single locations (or two). When a Lord is said to "send a Raven", it doesn't mean "send any Raven to X"; it means, "use the Raven trained to go to X".
Having been a while since I've read the books, the specifics are a bit hazy, but instead of Sansa, Ramsay is meant to be marrying:evilthecat said:
Arya. Specifically, as Arya is still missing, they pretend that Jeyne Poole, a minor side character, is Arya instead, to take control of the remaining Stark lands and holdings. Which neatly sums up any problem with Sansa's supposed responsibility for Joffrey's death, and doesn't involve Sansa making the hike to Winterfell for yet another detour from the books.
Basically, this is just another detour from the books, that's kinda pointless, quite stupid, and not particularly conducive to the plot, and will require yet more rewrites and deviations in future. And it involves having a major POV character being raped, when they're ostensibly on an arc where they learn to be authoritative and stand up for themselves, though in the mould of Littlefinger.
It's rather like the Jaime/Cersei scene in the thematic inconsistency. Jaime is meant to be on an arc where he learns a sort of honour and nobility, leading to his greater interest in the Kingsguard, and largely influenced by his interactions with Brienne, before he sends her to continue trying to save the Stark girls, though they're on the side of his family's enemies. And then he rapes his sister beside the corpse of their incest son. Completely pointless change.
Basically, this is just another detour from the books, that's kinda pointless, quite stupid, and not particularly conducive to the plot, and will require yet more rewrites and deviations in future. And it involves having a major POV character being raped, when they're ostensibly on an arc where they learn to be authoritative and stand up for themselves, though in the mould of Littlefinger.
It's rather like the Jaime/Cersei scene in the thematic inconsistency. Jaime is meant to be on an arc where he learns a sort of honour and nobility, leading to his greater interest in the Kingsguard, and largely influenced by his interactions with Brienne, before he sends her to continue trying to save the Stark girls, though they're on the side of his family's enemies. And then he rapes his sister beside the corpse of their incest son. Completely pointless change.
The Boltons know, it's been months since Sansa's escape and every major lord in westeros has spies in Kings Landing. The death of Joffrey and the disappearance of Tyrion and Sansa was widely publicized with massive rewards offered for both of them. Likewise they know Sansa is married, as it has been even longer since that occurred. Cersei is incredibly paranoid and spends most of her arc during this time seeing the influence of Tyrion and Sansa everywhere, she sees them as equal partners in the murder of her son and goes so far as to assume every misfortune that befalls her as the machinations of them. As for Dorne, it's not independent, it's a constituent kingdom of the Iron Throne, one of "the seven kingdoms." the rulers only style themselves as "prince" or "princess" because that's the Rhoyner way and it's their tradition. They still pay taxes to the iron throne. I don't really know what you mean by their succession system, the eldest child of the current ruler inherits the kingdom. Man or woman eldest child inherits, if the ruler has no children the next eldest sibling inherits, if there are no siblings then they can appoint a successor. This is simply the latest really dumb move on the show runners part, I'm kinda surprised to see so many people defend it. Though the people doing the defending don't really have much to compare the show to so I can understand it I guess.evilthecat said:
The whole Boltons marrying Sansa to Ramsay despite her being wanted for regicide is actually explained and while it isn't as clean and straight forward as the books solution it does make sense.
Firstly the Boltons like everyone else just want power, they don't care how they get it, marrying the rightful heir to the North pretty much gives them the North. How the other Lords sees it is up to them but I suspect they will go with the ones that don;t agree will side with Stannis, the Karstarks for example and will no doubt be smashed when they try to attack Winterfell during Winter leaving only those that while they may not like the Boltons aren't willing to rise up against someone who by marriage has the legit claim.
Second Baelish actually says in one of the episodes that the last time the North was raised for war behind one leader and one cause they over threw one of the most powerful houses of the time (The Targareans.) The Boltons believe that by being legitimately attached to the heir to the North they could raise the North and over throw the Iron Throne.
Third why do they care. Again it's explained quite a few times that with Winter just round the corner, the death of Tywin and the distance involved that the Iron Throne just doesn't have the power or resource to march on Winterfell. Why would they fear the wroth of a potential enemy who doesn't have the power to do anything. They actually gain far far more by being married to the legit air to the North than they do by supporting some rapidly decaying house in the South.
Let's remember that Sansa running to Cersei and telling her about her father's plans to depart Kings Landing no doubt played a massive roll in the events that have gone on.
Firstly the Boltons like everyone else just want power, they don't care how they get it, marrying the rightful heir to the North pretty much gives them the North. How the other Lords sees it is up to them but I suspect they will go with the ones that don;t agree will side with Stannis, the Karstarks for example and will no doubt be smashed when they try to attack Winterfell during Winter leaving only those that while they may not like the Boltons aren't willing to rise up against someone who by marriage has the legit claim.
Second Baelish actually says in one of the episodes that the last time the North was raised for war behind one leader and one cause they over threw one of the most powerful houses of the time (The Targareans.) The Boltons believe that by being legitimately attached to the heir to the North they could raise the North and over throw the Iron Throne.
Third why do they care. Again it's explained quite a few times that with Winter just round the corner, the death of Tywin and the distance involved that the Iron Throne just doesn't have the power or resource to march on Winterfell. Why would they fear the wroth of a potential enemy who doesn't have the power to do anything. They actually gain far far more by being married to the legit air to the North than they do by supporting some rapidly decaying house in the South.
Let's remember that Sansa running to Cersei and telling her about her father's plans to depart Kings Landing no doubt played a massive roll in the events that have gone on.
Oh now we are getting disturbed? ************ where have you been for the first 50+ episodes...
If you imagined even for a second that GoT would shy away from making shit like that known then you are watching the wrong fucking series. Also they didn't show anything all of it was merely suggested by the noise, so if you think they were indulging in the rape scene you are really really clueless as to where that could have gone.
If you imagined even for a second that GoT would shy away from making shit like that known then you are watching the wrong fucking series. Also they didn't show anything all of it was merely suggested by the noise, so if you think they were indulging in the rape scene you are really really clueless as to where that could have gone.