Grumblr

[Cowabungaa]

I suppose. No, I don't suppose. I agree. I just... I don't know, I have a kneejerk reaction to people dumping on people who at least resemble doing good.

Understandable, but it's important to keep a level head in these matters.

It's important to keep an eye out for stuff like the dark side of social justice. Jim Sterling made a point about videogame fans that's applicable here too; if there's any group that should stay critical of the thing they love it's the fans themselves. It would only improve videogames. After all, they love them, videogame fans don't want to break them down, they just want their loved games to be even better.

The same goes for people fighting for social justice. For the sake of the ultimate goal we should be wary of elements that would prevent us from reaching that goal, even if those elements come from within.

No. I mean anymore.

I'm thinking of murdering myself right now. No lie. I just... I don't know anymore.

Please stay calm, it's all fine. When previous assumptions are being altered it's not always that easy to accept. Just make a nice cuppa and play a fun videogame.

 

[Gorrath]

White, straight males tend to be supremely ignorant.

I can agree on much of what you said in your post about how people ignore issues that don't directly, or seemingly directly affect them. The single line I quoted from you illustrates exactly the sort of problem Tumblr has though. Can you honestly read that line that you wrote and not see why it's problematic? Just replace "white" with "black" and see how you feel about it. If anyone on here said, "Black males tend to be supremely ignorant," this place would explode with replies to that person about how unbelievably racist they're being.

Well, white, straight males do tend to be supremely ignorant! About issues facing PoC, about issues facing LGBT people, about issues facing girls and women! That's just... that's true! ...right?

I mean most people tend to be ignorant of most everything, but man... especially like, cis people are really ignorant of trans issues! And of course there are no "cis" issues to be ignorant of (if you can think of an injustice befalling the cis community, name one). The "black males tend to be supremely ignorant" would certainly be racist given context, but it depends what we're talking about. Probably it is true that, if we were talking about sexism in the African-American community, "black males tend to be supremely ignorant" would be apt. And in this case, talking about injustice against PoC, LGBT, and the female population... yes, white, straight males tend to be supremely ignorant.

It's like saying most old people are ignorant of issues facing today's youth. It's true. It's probably the same the opposite way, too, if you really want to split hairs.

I'm not interested in splitting hairs really, I'm interested in abolishing presumptions about people based on nonsensical criteria such as race, nationality, gender, sex ect. Dragging these sorts of categorizations into a discussion does nothing at all to further that discussion. I happen to be a straight white male, I also tend to be supremely ignorant of particle physics. Black homosexual men also tend to be ignorant of particle physics. However, what place does the statement, "Black, gay men are supremely ignorant," have in a discussion about particle physics? True or not, it is inflammatory and does nothing to get us anywhere and if I were to make that statement I would quickly be condemned for making it.

Usually the reason people bring up something about someone else's race, gender, sex ect. in a discussion, it is either to shout that person down because, "X group is supremely ignorant of Y issue, and therefore any person who is of that description does not get to have an opinion." or simply acts as an inflammatory and pointless line meant to prop up one's own statements through an attack on their opponent.

As I've said many times before, "It's not racist (or sexist, ect.) if it's true!" is the battle cry of the bigot.

Edit: I see others have already made this point in a far more succinct manner and you seem to have agreed with it, so no need to respond to me if you don't want to repeat yourself. Also want to be clear my last line there isn't an accusatory one, I am not saying you are a bigot for saying what you said.

 

[Itsthefuzz]

How about instead of justifying hateful, stereotypical thinking towards any group because you THINK they fit into a category, we just get rid of that mentality all together and judge people on a case-by-case basis. Content and character.

Not because they're black or white, male or female, homo, hetero, whatever. Not because STATISTICALLY (which I would love to see there be proof of) you think it's likely a person acts a certain way because they happen to belong in a group they have no control over being in.

It's 2014 people, Jesus.

Okay, how about this: speaking AN AN IGNORANT WHITE MALE, MOST WHITE MALES ARE IGNORANT.

Does that work out for you?

Again, I like to judge people based off what they say and do, so I don't think because you're a white male that you're ignorant. I just think you're being ignorant based off all that you've said so far. You can't just group people because you think you know them. The world is a damn big place and it's unfair and shitty to try to say that someone who belongs in that group (again because they were born that way, it wasn't a choice to be male and white OR female OR black OR WHATEVER ELSE) is likely to be a bigoted asshole because you think you've met enough of them to justify that claim. Just sit back, calm down, and judge someone as an ignorant asshole when they start treating other people like an ignorant asshole would.

 

[lacktheknack]

The fact that you would immediately assume white straight males don't know and care about these things is, in fact, completely baffling and worrying.

I don't know or care about these things. So, what.

...Then why are you trying to take a side!?

No. I mean anymore.

I'm thinking of murdering myself right now. No lie. I just... I don't know anymore.

...I don't either, man.

I think you've got a lot of cognitive dissonance going on in your head right now. Maybe you should go make a cup of tea, think things through for a bit, then come back and avoid this thread. You'll get things figured out, I believe that much.

You certainly don't need to kill yourself. D:

 

[EvilRoy]

How about instead of justifying hateful, stereotypical thinking towards any group because you THINK they fit into a category, we just get rid of that mentality all together and judge people on a case-by-case basis. Content and character.

Not because they're black or white, male or female, homo, hetero, whatever. Not because STATISTICALLY (which I would love to see there be proof of) you think it's likely a person acts a certain way because they happen to belong in a group they have no control over being in.

It's 2014 people, Jesus.

Okay, how about this: speaking AN AN IGNORANT WHITE MALE, MOST WHITE MALES ARE IGNORANT.

Does that work out for you?

Ok dude, you seriously need to step back from the internet for a bit, put away the keyboard and just take some time to calm down and compose yourself. You've already said some pretty questionable stuff here, and its looking like you're on the way to saying things that you might really regret. There is no shame in breaking for coffee and a biscuit, and then taking a second look at what you've had to say today.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Erin needs to check her privilege.

Don't worry. I'm already checking out Erin's privilege on her behalf. Because she's got some mighty fine privilege going on, and I thought she might need a require some assistance in checking it all out.

 

[jklinders]

White, straight males tend to be supremely ignorant.

I can agree on much of what you said in your post about how people ignore issues that don't directly, or seemingly directly affect them. The single line I quoted from you illustrates exactly the sort of problem Tumblr has though. Can you honestly read that line that you wrote and not see why it's problematic? Just replace "white" with "black" and see how you feel about it. If anyone on here said, "Black males tend to be supremely ignorant," this place would explode with replies to that person about how unbelievably racist they're being.

Well, white, straight males do tend to be supremely ignorant! About issues facing PoC, about issues facing LGBT people, about issues facing girls and women! That's just... that's true! ...right?

I mean most people tend to be ignorant of most everything, but man... especially like, cis people are really ignorant of trans issues! And of course there are no "cis" issues to be ignorant of (if you can think of an injustice befalling the cis community, name one). The "black males tend to be supremely ignorant" would certainly be racist given context, but it depends what we're talking about. Probably it is true that, if we were talking about sexism in the African-American community, "black males tend to be supremely ignorant" would be apt. And in this case, talking about injustice against PoC, LGBT, and the female population... yes, white, straight males tend to be supremely ignorant.

It's like saying most old people are ignorant of issues facing today's youth. It's true. It's probably the same the opposite way, too, if you really want to split hairs.

I'm not interested in splitting hairs really, I'm interested in abolishing presumptions about people based on nonsensical criteria such as race, nationality, gender, sex ect. Dragging these sorts of categorizations into a discussion does nothing at all to further that discussion. I happen to be a straight white male, I also tend to be supremely ignorant of particle physics. Black homosexual men also tend to be ignorant of particle physics. However, what place does the statement, "Black, gay men are supremely ignorant," have in a discussion about particle physics? True or not, it is inflammatory and does nothing to get us anywhere and if I were to make that statement I would quickly be condemned for making it.

Usually the reason people bring up something about someone else's race, gender, sex ect. in a discussion, it is either to shout that person down because, "X group is supremely ignorant of Y issue, and therefore any person who is of that description does not get to have an opinion." or simply acts as an inflammatory and pointless line meant to prop up one's own statements through an attack on their opponent.

As I've said many times before, "It's not racist (or sexist, ect.) if it's true!" is the battle cry of the bigot.

Gorrath, that is the most sensible, level headed and wonderful way to break this issue down I can imagine. I'd like to think I was looking at it the same way as you posted but there is no way I would have worded it so awesomely

+1000 internets to you.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

Nice to see the joke has been taken well and this forum topic becoming the exact joke itself.

FOR GREAT SOCIAL JUSTICE, ESCAPIST HOOOO!.

But seriously I'm seeing one guy on here who's already broken the rules and just got reported and another 4-5 jumping onto one guy because 5 apparently isn't enough to show someone a point, stay classy Escapist.

 

[JoJo]

Apparently, I've been using Tumblr wrong this whole time.

Nah, I use it to get cool ass fanart plenty of the time. I just ignore the stupid stuff.

Same here, I use it for gif-mining and browsing fan content, never really seen the SJW side except when it gets linked here. From the quotes I've seen though, some people really need to learn that prejudice runs both ways and the idea of 'cultural appropriation' is utterly indefensible, nations and cultures have been trading ideas and customs for millennia, why is it suddenly bad for Westerners in particular to enjoy things that originated in other cultures?

 

[The Funslinger]

I feel like this video is adequat:

I'm glad someone or something shares my aggravated confusion towards the inexplicable existence of SuperWhoLock.

 

[Gorrath]

snip

I've considered the points you make here but have come to reject some of them on a philosophical and even practical level. I think many, even most do use the internet for self enlightenment, though that may not come in the form of learning about important social matters. I do think that our discussions can have great impact on one another though. Even if we cling to absurd ideas in the face of strong evidence shown to us by our opponents in the discussion, I think we all internalize at least a kernel of it, an idea that makes us wonder and worry that we might be wrong and that can lead us to seek out more information about any subject.

People with a temperament more like mine find these discussions to be of great value, and my mind has changed wholly and drastically on several key issues due to having my more ignorant ideas crumble around me when faced with an onslaught of truth. I tend to be more malleable because I do not place a lot of ego in my own understanding of things, but all but maybe the most hard-headed will likely at least give more thought to a subject when facing withering criticism of bad ideas.

On the more practical side, such broad-ranging and multi-faceted discussions can change the whole zeitgeist of a society over time. The French revolution was in part inspired by the discussions had in the parlors where ideas were bandied about by people of different classes and standings. I like to think of these discussions that way and I think social changes will come faster as we raise whole generations on greater access to discussion with all sorts of people from all walks of life.

I am also an eternal optimist, so that colors my perception.

 

[Broderick]

I have been on tumblr for a year and I have to say it can be pretty accurate depending on the blogs you follow. I follow a person on Tumblr who often speaks out against this behavior; for the sake of example why tumblr tends to be an unsavory place, I will link one of the blogs text posts.

Note: The rant ahead is not written by me, I have linked the blog post in the spoiler. However, there is quite a lot of swearing and name calling in the blog post and if you are affected negatively by that sort of thing, I suggest you do not read it.

Spoiler: Long Rant Ahead

Link to blog post here: http://tenaflyviper.tumblr.com/post/77624962470/whos-users-are-more-stupid-4chan-or-tumblr-not-that

Certainly not all of tumblr is like this; there are multitudes of blogs that post art, music and funny gifs or movie clips. Unfortunately, tumblr has more than a few bad apples. You know this kind of thing is a problem when people have been bullied to take down their blog over an opinion about a piece of media; that kind of thing happens way more often than expected.

 

[Cowabungaa]

But that's not even the point, nor is it the problem. The problem is that people are judged on that assumption by a part of Tumblr's social justice community. They are not treated as individuals, thus it's being discrimination.

I must say the Escapist is currently handling this better than I expected. Its weird how sometimes these threads turn into massive shitstorms and sometimes only into little shitstorms. People seem to be generally trying to talk things through right now.

I'm mostly happy that I can actually voice those concerns. I'd like to talk about it with my followers on Tumblr, but sadly I'm way too sure I'd get a lot of hate for it.

The Escapist forums have always been a (relative) beacon of rational and calm discussion. I like this place.

I'm glad someone or something shares my aggravated confusion towards the inexplicable existence of SuperWhoLock.

Yay for Tumblr Savior. I blocked anything related to that... thing.

 

[Robot-Jesus]

I mostly read tumblur for the comedy potential. I don't care how hard you fight, I will not stop laughing when you claim to be a draconic otherkin.

The real problem with the tumblur social justice warriors is that they want to fight an epic battle against the powers of cishet, when the actual conditions for victory require them to win over the cissexual heteronormative majority and you don't do that by calling for their execution.

 

[Mister Chippy]

I mostly read tumblur for the comedy potential. I don't care how hard you fight, I will not stop laughing when you claim to be a draconic otherkin.

Honestly that part of tumblr just makes me feel uncomfortable. These are people who are either totally insane or have lives that are so shitty they feel the need to create this elaborate fantasy to escape from them and feel special. Makes me sad whenever I run into it.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I've considered the points you make here but have come to reject some of them on a philosophical and even practical level. I think many, even most do use the internet for self enlightenment, though that may not come in the form of learning about important social matters. I do think that our discussions can have great impact on one another though. Even if we cling to absurd ideas in the face of strong evidence shown to us by our opponents in the discussion, I think we all internalize at least a kernel of it, an idea that makes us wonder and worry that we might be wrong and that can lead us to seek out more information about any subject.

People with a temperament more like mine find these discussions to be of great value, and my mind has changed wholly and drastically on several key issues due to having my more ignorant ideas crumble around me when faced with an onslaught of truth. I tend to be more malleable because I do not place a lot of ego in my own understanding of things, but all but maybe the most hard-headed will likely at least give more thought to a subject when facing withering criticism of bad ideas.

On the more practical side, such broad-ranging and multi-faceted discussions can change the whole zeitgeist of a society over time. The French revolution was in part inspired by the discussions had in the parlors where ideas were bandied about by people of different classes and standings. I like to think of these discussions that way and I think social changes will come faster as we raise whole generations on greater access to discussion with all sorts of people from all walks of life.

Well, all I can do is present my perception, so, in no particular order...

In practice, I prefer to be informed before making a decision. Sounds blunt to the point of being stupidly obvious, but irrational snap-judgments is the source of virtually every mistake I make in life (well, a mistake in cases where I can better inform myself prior).

Vain as it is, I try to recognize the line between advocacy for a position and necessity for action based on that position. Contrary to what activists will tell you, they are not always the same thing, even if one can lead to the other. Upon reflection, that's where a lot of my "ignorance/apathy" comes from. Most issues are completely out of my grasp beyond an affirmative grunt or dismissive bray.
Maybe I'm just not "French enough", but if social change results in the long run, so be it.
It might be better, it might be worse. I'm just too bombarded by information to consider, let alone act on all of it.
(Which I suppose is as good of a transition I can get to my next point.)

As for the self-righteous shame-campaigns some parts of the internet (Tumblr) loves: I'm not especially enamored with folks damning me for a position on a subject where I don't actually hold any, and/or demanding that I side with them right after as "penance".

I find that self-righteous "Ignorance is a crime" mentality is especially absurd when ignorance, which is inherent to [everyone who has ever lived, is in practice, far more likely to be dispelled by chance contact with a subject, and not intentionally seeking. Most subjects I do actively take issue with, I at least try to NOT open with an insult the audience with suppositions about their ignorance (I occasionally do so regardless, being fallible, but I digress).

Put another way: There are infinitely many problems in the world for one person to identify, and a finite amount of effort one has available. It makes no sense to me to drop everything for the sake of chasing some amorphous issue until my own life is already in order.

I am also an eternal optimist, so that colors my perception.

I'm of two minds about many things (hence, part of my screen name).
(It's also why I'd make a terrible politician; I have to consider too many angles to align with any specific party agenda.)

Currently, most subjects I actively care about, I'm not happy with their state or direction: So overtly, I'm rather pessimistic.

But I also try (usually in vain) to seek solutions that are within my means; or failing that, understanding where or why no means exist. So it's not pure pessimism; nor pure cynicism, because true cynics just surrender to passive-aggressive self-rot (like a certain popular internet celebrity on this site).
Which, sadly, I used to.

That's my rambling, discordant response.

 

[Skeleon]

So... from what I gathered so far... this comic is basically clickbait? I'm sure if I gave a toss about tumblr or frequented any of its pages, I'd be... well... dunno... I'd have a reaction beyond this one?

 

[themilo504]

I only really use tumblr for the ask character blogs, it?s a bit of a guilty pleasure.

 

[Simonism451]

So... from what I gathered so far... this comic is basically clickbait? I'm sure if I gave a toss about tumblr or frequented any of its pages, I'd be... well... dunno... I'd have a reaction beyond this one?

Or you know, it's making fun of stuff the creators think is funny/unfortunate.

 

[Frozengale]

For further information: Visit <link=https://twitter.com/TumblrTXT>Tumblr.txt.

And yes, the topics Tumblr tackles are real and should be discussed, but not that way. Not that way.

Words can not properly express how I feel now that you introduced me to this. I find this twitter feed to be fascinating, hilarious, and one of the most perverse things I have ever seen (and I've seen OH SO MANY things thanks to the internet). Every time I read a post I want to laugh, because obviously it can't be serious. It HAS to be satire or a joke. Then I become frustrated, or angry, or shocked, or just plain depressed as I realize this might be for real.