GTA V - Amnesty condemns torture scene

[Carpenter]

Is it like Splinter Cell where it's completely misplaced and stupidly over the top? Cause that really ruined a lot of Conviction for me, not that i was taking it particularly seriously in the first place but it was in very poor taste.

I don't know how it is in GTAV but i imagine it's just Rockstar trying to be controversial, something i really don't condone.

Conviction?

That was TV show torture, a guy punching people and slamming them into things until they talk. If that made you feel sick or uncomfortable, you are so far removed from reality and "real torture" that you probably should play the scene just to at least be on the right track of what we are talking about.

"Torture" in conviction was played out as the "hero doing the hero's duty" and that's obviously not what's being done with GTA 5.

 

[Brian Tams]

For fuck's sake. If you think Rockstar is advocating torture than you either haven't played the game, or are just an idiot. And if you don't like it because it makes you uncomfortable? Hey, maybe that was Rockstar's intent! It was to make you uncomfortable about torture. This is where gaming can be used as a powerful art form; you get to experience something you would have never experienced before.

If the mission made you uncomfortable, then it was a roaring success. If you're mad about being made to feel uncomfortable, tough shit.

 

[Poetic Nova]

Should have the option to sensor this scene or completely disable it. Just like that one CoDMW2 mission which you can skip.

COD did that because it's a game made for kids and mass appeal in general.

GTA is not meant to appeal to everyone, especially kids, and having the scene be "optional" would completely take out the point of having it in the first place.

COD doing something doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. On that note, why don't you see COD giving you an option to play the game without shooting people at all?

Because they want people to be desensitized to the idea of killing certain people.

Letting you skip the "no russian" scene also made it obvious and undeniable that the scene had no real relevance on the story or game in the first place. If you can get a complete experience without playing it, then it didn't need to be there at all.

They still could make it optional to sensor it. I'm not moved by that scene at all but quiet a few people are so that would be the best sollution w/o making a plothole.

 

[Carpenter]

Should have the option to sensor this scene or completely disable it. Just like that one CoDMW2 mission which you can skip.

COD did that because it's a game made for kids and mass appeal in general.

GTA is not meant to appeal to everyone, especially kids, and having the scene be "optional" would completely take out the point of having it in the first place.

COD doing something doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. On that note, why don't you see COD giving you an option to play the game without shooting people at all?

Because they want people to be desensitized to the idea of killing certain people.

Letting you skip the "no russian" scene also made it obvious and undeniable that the scene had no real relevance on the story or game in the first place. If you can get a complete experience without playing it, then it didn't need to be there at all.

They still could make it optional to sensor it. I'm not moved by that scene at all but quiet a few people are so that would be the best sollution w/o making a plothole.

I ask again, why? Why give people the option to censor the scene? (btw it's not spelled "sensor" nor is it spelled "Sollution")

You keep missing the point that it's supposed to make you uncomfortable. Keep telling me it didn't "move you" because it only shows that you are missing the point. It wasn't meant to "move you" or make you feel good, it was meant to make you feel sick and uncomfortable. Hey look, people like you claiming it should be censored because it makes you feel sick or uncomfortable.

The people that feel that way are the people that might skip it, and the people that are supposed to see it. Making it optional defeats the entire purpose of having it in the first place. It would be like giving you the option to not have your sister die in Fable 2 or having the option to not have any war in COD and the whole game would end when you finish training.

Not everything in games is meant to be sunshine and lollypops, sometimes something is supposed to be unpleasant. Don't like it? Don't play games intended for adults.

 

[LegendaryVKickr]

Should have the option to sensor this scene or completely disable it. Just like that one CoDMW2 mission which you can skip.

COD did that because it's a game made for kids and mass appeal in general.

GTA is not meant to appeal to everyone, especially kids, and having the scene be "optional" would completely take out the point of having it in the first place.

COD doing something doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. On that note, why don't you see COD giving you an option to play the game without shooting people at all?

Because they want people to be desensitized to the idea of killing certain people.

Letting you skip the "no russian" scene also made it obvious and undeniable that the scene had no real relevance on the story or game in the first place. If you can get a complete experience without playing it, then it didn't need to be there at all.

They still could make it optional to sensor it. I'm not moved by that scene at all but quiet a few people are so that would be the best sollution w/o making a plothole.

You can't entirely avoid doing the mission, but you can fail the mission intentionally, three times, and the game will allow you to skip past the part that's giving you trouble. I plan to balls up the mission and just pass over it. Sorry GTA, I'm squeamish and pulling a man's teeth out is not something I signed on for.

 

[Poetic Nova]

snip

First: I don't need a lecture on how to spell, english isn't my first language.
Second: Manhunt 2, 'nuff said, I'm done, don't bother quoting me again.

 

[Tumedus]

The irony to me is that if the scene were played with more guffaws or you were able to bypass it with "choice" the entire message would be lost.

It is pretty clearly condemning the practice. If you played it for laughs you basically turn torture into a gag. You make it okay, thereby legitimizing, not necessarily the practice of it, but the dismissal of it as an issue. If you make it a choice then you allow people to avoid the issue entirely and it honestly becomes a "violence simulator" just for those that want it.

By making it both necessary and straight it forces everyone to confront it. "Does this make you uncomfortable" "Good!" "It should make you uncomfortable so don't pretend it's okay".

I think it also serves as a not so subtle reminder that, while entertaining to be the indifferent bad guy, the shit you are doing in these games is bad. And it's effective in a way that "remember kids, don't try this at home" just fails to capture.

 

[Poetic Nova]

You can't entirely avoid doing the mission, but you can fail the mission intentionally, three times, and the game will allow you to skip past the part that's giving you trouble. I plan to balls up the mission and just pass over it. Sorry GTA, I'm squeamish and pulling a man's teeth out is not something I signed on for.

Would be nice to allow to skip this part of the mission before it started while showing a message that it's not for everyone.

 

[Johnnyseven]

I'm not sure if something like this has already been said but isn't it a bit silly to pick one torture scene out of a game as unacceptable when you probably destroy about five families every time you try and park your car (that you just stole from a dude you probably randomly shot in the face) on a sidewalk?

I haven't thought about it much but this just jumped into my head, it really doesn't make sense that someone would be fine with murdering people left right and center but would object to torture. At least not to me anyway.

 

[LegendaryVKickr]

You can't entirely avoid doing the mission, but you can fail the mission intentionally, three times, and the game will allow you to skip past the part that's giving you trouble. I plan to balls up the mission and just pass over it. Sorry GTA, I'm squeamish and pulling a man's teeth out is not something I signed on for.

Would be nice to allow to skip this part of the mission before it started while showing a message that it's not for everyone.

Fortunately, the mission has created enough attention and controversy already we can just google the mission name, and then choose to fail out of it as much as possible.

However, unless this ends up garnering a Jack Thompson sort of guy pushing his agenda, I don't think it will be censored or removed. But This does remind me of Spec: Ops, where the player is given the option to stop playing if they truly do not want to proceed. Not quite the same I know, but you do still have an option to avoid it in it's entirety, so if it's something you absolutely will not tolerate, you can choose to not play.

Maybe you can find a friend who can do it for you? A lot of my friends would be eager to play any part of the new GTA, having not bought it yet. And also aren't super squeamish like I am.

 

[Compatriot Block]

The most psychopathic player-character in the game explains how pointless and useless torture is literally as he walking out of the building it took place in.

Jesus, at least watch a video of someone else playing it before speaking publicly about it.

 

[Carpenter]

snip

First: I don't need a lecture on how to spell, english isn't my first language.
Second: Manhunt 2, 'nuff said, I'm done, don't bother quoting me again.

First, if you have no desire to learn our language maybe speak your own, I may suck at speaking spanish but at least I take criticism and try to improve, I don't just go "Screw your language, I don't know it all so I'm going to just make it up as I go along"

Second, what does manhunt 2 have to do with anything? They were given an AO rating (it wasn't more violent than the first but that's another story) so they had to censor the game in order for it to be released.

That doesn't support your argument in the slightest and the fact that the censored version of the game sucks kind of proves my point that it kills the original intention of the game.

 

[Carpenter]

The irony to me is that if the scene were played with more guffaws or you were able to bypass it with "choice" the entire message would be lost.

It is pretty clearly condemning the practice. If you played it for laughs you basically turn torture into a gag. You make it okay, thereby legitimizing, not necessarily the practice of it, but the dismissal of it as an issue. If you make it a choice then you allow people to avoid the issue entirely and it honestly becomes a "violence simulator" just for those that want it.

By making it both necessary and straight it forces everyone to confront it. "Does this make you uncomfortable" "Good!" "It should make you uncomfortable so don't pretend it's okay".

I think it also serves as a not so subtle reminder that, while entertaining to be the indifferent bad guy, the shit you are doing in these games is bad. And it's effective in a way that "remember kids, don't try this at home" just fails to capture.

Thank you!

People saying it should have a skip option and warning or be more comedic are pretty much proving that this scene needs to be in this game. People are just way too quick to turn torture into a "fun" subject and as you can see when it comes anywhere close to the sick reality people reject it like a child spitting out their peas.

I'm glad it makes people sick, it means there may be some hope for humanity after all. We have been so desensitized to the idea of war, violence, and torture that prison rape is a common comedy trope, torture is a way to show how cool your protagonist is, and real life war is often regarded as a small modern annoyance rather than an extremely serious issue.

 

[Carpenter]

Should have the option to sensor this scene or completely disable it. Just like that one CoDMW2 mission which you can skip.

COD did that because it's a game made for kids and mass appeal in general.

GTA is not meant to appeal to everyone, especially kids, and having the scene be "optional" would completely take out the point of having it in the first place.

COD doing something doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. On that note, why don't you see COD giving you an option to play the game without shooting people at all?

Because they want people to be desensitized to the idea of killing certain people.

Letting you skip the "no russian" scene also made it obvious and undeniable that the scene had no real relevance on the story or game in the first place. If you can get a complete experience without playing it, then it didn't need to be there at all.

They still could make it optional to sensor it. I'm not moved by that scene at all but quiet a few people are so that would be the best sollution w/o making a plothole.

You can't entirely avoid doing the mission, but you can fail the mission intentionally, three times, and the game will allow you to skip past the part that's giving you trouble. I plan to balls up the mission and just pass over it. Sorry GTA, I'm squeamish and pulling a man's teeth out is not something I signed on for.

Good, that's the point, you shouldn't enjoy seeing it or pretending to do it.
It's a good thing that they made you feel sick and made you do this mission to complete the game, the subject of torture has become a joke especially in games and it's about time they start giving people a little dose of reality because the "escapism" trend is only leading to a completely emotionally detached society.

 

[MrBaskerville]

Is it like Splinter Cell where it's completely misplaced and stupidly over the top? Cause that really ruined a lot of Conviction for me, not that i was taking it particularly seriously in the first place but it was in very poor taste.

I don't know how it is in GTAV but i imagine it's just Rockstar trying to be controversial, something i really don't condone.

Conviction?

That was TV show torture, a guy punching people and slamming them into things until they talk. If that made you feel sick or uncomfortable, you are so far removed from reality and "real torture" that you probably should play the scene just to at least be on the right track of what we are talking about.

"Torture" in conviction was played out as the "hero doing the hero's duty" and that's obviously not what's being done with GTA 5.

It wasn't uncomfortable it was just pretty silly (in the context of the game) and out of touch with the tone of the game, making me ask the question, why is it here?

It just feels like they are putting these ridiculous torture scenes into their games to appear edgy and "progressive" while it's really just out of place.

 

[Ticklefist]

Shitting into your mouth is good because it teaches you that shitting into your mouth is bad.

 

[EHKOS]

but also to imply that information obtained under torture is reliable.

At the end of the mission Trevor has a talk about his opinion being the exact opposite. And it wasn't reliable, the guy barely knew anything. I saw it as Rockstar protesting torture.

Although I did have a worryingly, sickening amount of fun with it.

EDIT: For those of you stating he would have told them everything anyway, he really didn't. He could have screamed it out before Trevor touched him but he didn't. If you don't blurt out the info while the guy is slowly making his way tword you with a car battery, then you aren't THAT willing to talk.

 

[LegendaryVKickr]

Should have the option to sensor this scene or completely disable it. Just like that one CoDMW2 mission which you can skip.

COD did that because it's a game made for kids and mass appeal in general.

GTA is not meant to appeal to everyone, especially kids, and having the scene be "optional" would completely take out the point of having it in the first place.

COD doing something doesn't mean everyone else has to do it. On that note, why don't you see COD giving you an option to play the game without shooting people at all?

Because they want people to be desensitized to the idea of killing certain people.

Letting you skip the "no russian" scene also made it obvious and undeniable that the scene had no real relevance on the story or game in the first place. If you can get a complete experience without playing it, then it didn't need to be there at all.

They still could make it optional to sensor it. I'm not moved by that scene at all but quiet a few people are so that would be the best sollution w/o making a plothole.

You can't entirely avoid doing the mission, but you can fail the mission intentionally, three times, and the game will allow you to skip past the part that's giving you trouble. I plan to balls up the mission and just pass over it. Sorry GTA, I'm squeamish and pulling a man's teeth out is not something I signed on for.

Good, that's the point, you shouldn't enjoy seeing it or pretending to do it.
It's a good thing that they made you feel sick and made you do this mission to complete the game, the subject of torture has become a joke especially in games and it's about time they start giving people a little dose of reality because the "escapism" trend is only leading to a completely emotionally detached society.

I mean I guess it all depends on how they wrote it. I haven't seen this mission, or even played GTA V yet. I worry it's going to be played up like "Remember when we did full frontal nudity for the sake of controversy?" Which was fine, because there's nothing wrong with nudity. A prolonged scene with pulling a guys teeth out for the sake of simply doing it might be over the line.

So I really hope you're right, and that they have an angle with this. Because otherwise it will make Rockstar seem detached, rather than a portrayal of society.

 

[Carpenter]

Is it like Splinter Cell where it's completely misplaced and stupidly over the top? Cause that really ruined a lot of Conviction for me, not that i was taking it particularly seriously in the first place but it was in very poor taste.

I don't know how it is in GTAV but i imagine it's just Rockstar trying to be controversial, something i really don't condone.

Conviction?

That was TV show torture, a guy punching people and slamming them into things until they talk. If that made you feel sick or uncomfortable, you are so far removed from reality and "real torture" that you probably should play the scene just to at least be on the right track of what we are talking about.

"Torture" in conviction was played out as the "hero doing the hero's duty" and that's obviously not what's being done with GTA 5.

It wasn't uncomfortable it was just pretty silly (in the context of the game) and out of touch with the tone of the game, making me ask the question, why is it here?

It just feels like they are putting these ridiculous torture scenes into their games to appear edgy and "progressive" while it's really just out of place.

Wow that's just....sad.

Ok it's not a "they" putting torture scenes in games to appear edgy. The torture scene in GTA 5 is in no way comparable to the constant use of "torture" in conviction.

Conviction portrayed torture as a fun but useful way of getting information from "bad guys" and usually presented it in a way that would make Taken look like a cerebral masterpiece by comparison.

Slamming a guy into a mirror is not torture, it's not comparable to what's presented in GTA 5.

GTA presented the torture to make people feel unpleasant, not to "appear edgy" but to make people think about the reality of torture. It's dirty, sick, and unpleasant.

 

[Carpenter]

Shitting into your mouth is good because it teaches you that shitting into your mouth is bad.

And that analogy would have value if Rockstar literally made the player torture a real person.

They didn't.

But yeah sure.