Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I just remembered that Halo Reach had an option to mute everyone except your friends.

Why don't people just use that?

because people can't just simply be "offended" these days, they can't just shrug and move along.

something must be done anytime someone says something you might not like.


*gasp!* those vocal sound rifts in the air offended my ears! PERMABAN THEIR GAME!

Uh...no. Online networks need to have standards that are enforced, otherwise they just turn into playgrounds for assholes. This kind of crap is against the Xbox Live code of conduct and they should be punished for breaking existing rules that they promised to abide by when they created their account. Besides, we shouldn't just give a free pass to these guys and say "just ignore them" it's going to ruin someone else's fun, knowing that they have to hide away from the general community of Xbox live just to have a good time online, knowing that they have to hide who they are.

look back to my other post, it covers that fact of personal attacks which you seem to to assume that is what i am implying, when i am simply targeting general speech that people always take out of turn as a personal attack.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

This is the only problem I can see with this plan. Xbox live definitely needs to be reigned in some, but you have to be careful with how you do that. I think having the same kind of system that LoL does to deal with problems could work reasonably well here.

Ex:Someone reports you, others look at your history of reports and look at the player(s) that have reported you to try and ascertain why you were reported and if it is an ongoing issue, or just a one-time thing.

I am wholeheartedly behind that. If you are warned, and warned, and then continue to do what you were warned about; then it's your own fault.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

But that glorious freedom isn't exactly a part of Xbox Live's code of conduct, which you agree to abide by in order to play online. You use their service, and the ultimate bottom line is that you must follow the code of conduct to keep using it. As unfair as that is to your concept of freedom of speech, Rules are rules.

Fair enough. I can concede to that, since it's their service and their (arbitrary) rules that govern the usage of THEIR systems.

 

[slipknot4]

Not trying to be a dick, but I would truly like to understand the logic behind this: What is the mentality behind letting some random person on the internet offend you? Honestly, I, personally, can't fathom it. This is a person that I have never met, don't know anything about, and will probably never see again. However, they have the ability to make me stop enjoying something because they offend me in some way?

I guess it's just hard to understand for someone that doesn't live in the same situation as the targeted demographic.
Yes, I do think it's fun to get into arguments with teenagers online. Especially when I outgame them by such a margin that they need to justify their loss by attacking me and my playstyle. Be it cheap, cheesy or devoid of "skill".

But coming from a home when my parents hate homosexuals the life I've been living has been a lie mostly. At least towards them, I'm very open about it with my friends, and I live in such a town a go to a school where the mentality towards LGB is very liberal. I enjoy wearing clothes with low-cut necklines and skinny pants. Getting my eyelashes done before I hit the bar/club/whatnot and I can safely say that I haven't been confronted by a lot of people doing so.
Sure, it happens from time to time and it hurts. But not to the extent to which others have to deal with.

So why is it that I'm less safe at home, by my computer doing the things I love than outside meeting real people? It's enough that I have to sit through the shit my dad says at the dining table, but now I have to accept that people are fucking dicks and hate homosexuals and bisexuals online too.

Saying; "Yes, I am gay. Can you please stop, it's offensive" doesn't work and it doesn't have any meaning online. So while you're sitting on a castle in the sky not minding the assaults and offends that gets thrown at you people with different sexual orientations, minorities and females actually take offence.

It's only a joke for so long.
[sup]I hope this was comprehensible, I'm not a native english speaker.[/sup]

 

[Meight08]

If there is one thing I always respected is that Halo had the Aliens feel with its Marines, I know Halo was actually inspired by the Alien and Predator movies combined to make awesomeness (Not AvP) but the fact that there are marines, even ODSTs, and Spartans who are females only adds to the credibility of the franchise.

Now take that to the design team and BOOM great diversity.

Anywho, how come I feel like SOMEONE out there will see this as a bad thing?

Only a few more days......go faster......

Suuuure

Not meant for 13 year old adhd kids at all. /Sarcasm

 

[Torrasque]

As much as I think Xbox live badly needs to reigned in, I hope they're not ovary vindictive with the enforcement.

Lol, well done sir, well done.

I think lifetime bans are overkill. I hate the average sexist douchebag as much as everyone else does, but lifetime bans? What if one accidentally slips out, or someone takes a joke out of context? BOOM lifetime ban for frustration and/or sarcasm?

 

[Denamic]

There indeed is a strong case to be made for merely taking away voice communication privileges.

Personally I am not female, black, homosexual, or belonging to any other category frequently insulted, so I can hardly say I feel discriminated. Sensitivity to puerile insults also is quite low, but that doesn't mean I won't fully support a dev trying to make its service more inclusive by removing the ones intent on ruining it for others.

Everyone certainly has the freedom to be offensive, but just as I have the freedom to remove anyone acting like a Halo kiddie from my house, so does 343 have the freedom to remove them from their game.

One of my favorite quotes of all this is as follows:

"As tolerant people, we must tolerate other people's intolerance; or we, ourselves, are intolerant."

I don't necessarily have to agree with someone's prejudices or remarks; but I'll damn well defend ANYONE'S ability to make those remarks. Freedom of speech doesn't mean "freedom to say what you want, as long as it won't offend anybody...". It means freedom to say what you want, when you want, wherever you want, without fear of persecution or consequence. It's a glorious thing that we can be offended by someone, and it's something that people take for granted.

If you go into a public square and start yelling racial slurs, you're going to get arrested for hate speech, disturbing the peace, and possibly get your teeth punched in. You're perfectly free to express yourself, but freedom of speech isn't freedom of repercussions.

Besides, online services and websites can do whatever the hell they want. Paid services presents you a code of conduct that you have to follow or have your privileges removed. Free services can do whatever they want, at any time, for any reason.

 

[Zerstiren]

I wonder if:

FOR WOMEN: They call out even the most inane insult, just to stick it to men.

and

FOR MEN: They use the most foul language, commit the most vulgar attacks, on innocent women, just to spite the handful of knuckle-headed "feminists" out of a perceived "OMERGERD* it's public skool all over again! I'm gonna' get called out for things some other shithead did!!"



Humans just loooooooooooove drama.



*Bear in mind, to understand "OMERGERD" is to assume the accent of Southern white-trash, born and raised in a Jesus trailer camp, and so to accept what I just said, is to say it's okay to use this insult. I just wanted to make you all hyper-aware of this.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

Fair enough. I can concede to that, since it's their service and their (arbitrary) rules that govern the usage of THEIR systems.

I am curious how much of a 'deal' this actually is, whether or not this will make any sort of difference, or whether Halo 4's online will be the Orwellian fascist nightmare people are making it out to be.

Another question I have is, why did they bring this up and feel the need to make a formal statement about it? Is the sexism online in Halo really that much of an awful problem?

I admit, that although I play a ton of online games, I don't play Halo much online anymore (Or many other console games) But I have played Reach a decent amount with friends.

It is perhaps the only game where I get tbagged on a regular basis, and get horrendously insulted on a regular basis (and I don't even TALK to these people) I personally don't get offended by it. But it does make me think. Why is this such a perverse problem in the Halo community? (The last game I played where I ran into bullies frequently was MW on 360, but I experienced far more from Halo)

Still though. Lifetime bans seem like a bit much. But I doubt Microsoft or 343 will care that much about the people they banish.

 

[SlamDunc]

This could be really good or really bad depending on the level it is taken to. It is quite common to shout rude things and depending on the game you were in it is generally considered fine as long as it does not get out of hand. If they only use it against constant and legitimate sexism that is a good thing, it shows it is not OK. If it is used to ban people for one offhand comment directed to the other team mixed with similar ones to male players it should not earn a ban.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Why is this such a perverse problem in the Halo community? (The last game I played where I ran into bullies frequently was MW on 360, but I experienced far more from Halo)

The old stereotype of the '10 year-old Halo kid' isn't without it's base. Halo is one of the most popular games, and, as such, attracts a younger audience who can't control themselves under the shrouds of anonymity.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

Not trying to be a dick, but I would truly like to understand the logic behind this: What is the mentality behind letting some random person on the internet offend you? Honestly, I, personally, can't fathom it. This is a person that I have never met, don't know anything about, and will probably never see again. However, they have the ability to make me stop enjoying something because they offend me in some way?

I guess it's just hard to understand for someone that doesn't live in the same situation as the targeted demographic.
Yes, I do think it's fun to get into arguments with teenagers online. Especially when I outgame them by such a margin that they need to justify their loss by attacking me and my playstyle. Be it cheap, cheesy or devoid of "skill".

But coming from a home when my parents hate homosexuals the life I've been living has been a lie mostly. At least towards them, I'm very open about it with my friends, and I live in such a town a go to a school where the mentality towards LGB is very liberal. I enjoy wearing clothes with low-cut necklines and skinny pants. Getting my eyelashes done before I hit the bar/club/whatnot and I can safely say that I haven't been confronted by a lot of people doing so.
Sure, it happens from time to time and it hurts. But not to the extent to which others have to deal with.

So why is it that I'm less safe at home, by my computer doing the things I love than outside meeting real people? It's enough that I have to sit through the shit my dad says at the dining table, but now I have to accept that people are fucking dicks and hate homosexuals and bisexuals online too.

Saying; "Yes, I am gay. Can you please stop, it's offensive" doesn't work and it doesn't have any meaning online. So while you're sitting on a castle in the sky not minding the assaults and offends that gets thrown at you people with different sexual orientations, minorities and females actually take offence.

It's only a joke for so long.
[sup]I hope this was comprehensible, I'm not a native english speaker.[/sup]

I can understand that, and I'm sorry for what you've had to go through at the hands of people who don't care about how they affect others. I really don't have a good answer on how to fix this issue; although, I don't believe permabans are the answer. Personally, I'd suggest trying to find a good community of gamers, and try to stick with them. I've found success with that in the past, albeit it's a bit harder to do on the XBox (I'm a PC Gamer, who tends to have the luxury of choosing a server and a group, rather than pubs).

 

[slipknot4]

I can understand that, and I'm sorry for what you've had to go through at the hands of people who don't care about how they affect others. I really don't have a good answer on how to fix this issue; although, I don't believe permabans are the answer. Personally, I'd suggest trying to find a good community of gamers, and try to stick with them. I've found success with that in the past, albeit it's a bit harder to do on the XBox (I'm a PC Gamer, who tends to have the luxury of choosing a server and a group, rather than pubs).

Yeah, if there was a good way to solve it there wouldn't be a problem. But I guess it's just a low way to go from where we are.

 

[Schadrach]

Guarantee this only applies to sexism towards women.

Most likely, because male gendered insults are for some unknown reason just not *gendered*, whilst anything that can potentially be female gendered *is*. Never really understood this one.

After all, no one ever seems to see a problem with using the assorted epithets that mean penis, male masturbation, semen, or a male donkey. Presumably all of those become permabannable too, right? I mean the assorted epithets that mean vagina, sexually promiscuous woman, female dog, and prostitute almost certainly will.

Are you really so sensitive that you allow random dicks on the internet to spoil your fun?

So, if you said that on Halo 4, you should get permabanned, right? You know, for using the male sexual organ to describe people negatively?

 

[Erttheking]

Yeah, but here's the thing though, Xbox live has a code of conduct, much like the Escapist has one, and if you break it then you get banned. Part of the code of conduct is not being racist and homophobic and sexist etc. I'm like you in that I think we shouldn't take the UK route and make hate speech illegal, but unlike you I don't think that people can just say whatever they feel like wherever they feel like, there are just some points where people need to just shut up and a public service used by millions is one of those places. That's why on the Escapist I would get banned if I called someone the n-word and it's why this policy is getting implemented and it's why I applaud it.

True. You are absolutely correct that it's THEIR service, and THEIR rules go. I can respect that. However, I'm playing the devil's advocate here that maybe permabans aren't necessarily the best way to accomplish this. Although,honestly, what do they care? By the time they ban you, they already have your $60, lol.

I think that perm bans might be the best way to go. There is an argument to be made that maybe there should be a three strike system with a warning and then a three day ban THEN a permaban instead of just a permaban right off of the bat, but I believe that permanent ban should be included in the punishment because anything else will just be shrugged off as a slap on the wrist. I'm always careful when it comes to the Escapist nowadays because one more moderation incident and I'll never comment on this site again, if that wasn't the case I doubt that I would be as careful.

And I'm glad that they aren't talking like that, that's a very lazy policy to take. Besides, they want your $60 next year.

 

[redknightalex]

Not knowing the ins and outs of the Xbox Live system, nor never wanting to know it, I can only speak as a general outsider to the subject on a hole. That being said, I don't believe that a permaban is the right answer but neither is letting this speech continue on.

The thing I feel that most gamers don't understand is, while it may be funny for you to start slinging every hurtful word you know since you were 12 to the gamer you just pawned, those words do actually hurt, particularly the ones that target you as a person. If someone said to my face that I was an idiot (I'm refusing to use any derogatory words, mainly the ones I myself find offensive and refuse to use), I might take it personally. Not just personally, but it may bring out ingrained fears and issues I have with a less-than-accepting society of who I am. And, trust me, this happens more often than I care to remember. Words do hurt, regardless of the way they were intended. The more we recognize that they hurt, the better we'll be at not using them and the less we'll need for notices like this.

It's the main reason why I limit my MP experience and primarily use my PS3 or PC for any people interaction.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

I think that perm bans might be the best way to go. There is an argument to be made that maybe there should be a three strike system with a warning and then a three day ban THEN a permaban instead of just a permaban right off of the bat, but I believe that permanent ban should be included in the punishment because anything else will just be shrugged off as a slap on the wrist. I'm always careful when it comes to the Escapist nowadays because one more moderation incident and I'll never comment on this site again, if that wasn't the case I doubt that I would be as careful.

And I'm glad that they aren't talking like that, that's a very lazy policy to take. Besides, they want your $60 next year.

I stand rooted in the belief that taking away their ability to communicate with other players, unless (maybe) those players opt-in to hearing said players, is the better way to go. Their entire offense is that they are rude to other players. So, by taking away their ability to be rude, you have effectively crippled their offensiveness. And if ONLY other players who opted to hear them could hear them (or maybe even no one at all could hear them), you have effectively removed the problem. I just don't see how a permaban is better than that...

 

[Erttheking]

If there is one thing I always respected is that Halo had the Aliens feel with its Marines, I know Halo was actually inspired by the Alien and Predator movies combined to make awesomeness (Not AvP) but the fact that there are marines, even ODSTs, and Spartans who are females only adds to the credibility of the franchise.

Now take that to the design team and BOOM great diversity.

Anywho, how come I feel like SOMEONE out there will see this as a bad thing?

Only a few more days......go faster......

http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;263489527;86576933;g
Suuuure

Not meant for 13 year old adhd kids at all. /Sarcasm

You know, Halo isn't exactly well known for sexualized women. Case in point, some of the women from the Halo games.

Spoiler

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X1IWXuEbgXI/S144gAFVmqI/AAAAAAAACDc/4zmZBSqoLqg/s400/kat+spartan+halo+reach.png
http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/_img/chars/char_27242.jpg
(Well, sometimes)
http://buttonbasher.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/halo3_odst-dare.jpg
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111019192057/halo/es/images/2/21/Lieutenant_Commander_Miranda_Keyes.png
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100811203629/halo/es/images/5/58/Mh-hw-anders.png
http://i.minus.com/jx8gpEBS1bgXw.PNG

 

[Mikeyfell]

So what 15 minutes after launch no one will be playing Halo 4?

Na, that's not true, maybe if they made homophobia against the rules too.
Why don't they just disallow in game chat? That seems like a much simpler solution.