Hardcore gaming is dead forever...
- Thread starter Grand Master Sage
- Start date
I wouldn't say it is dead forever, that is a big call. However as it is clear that appealing to a larger target audience will almost always result in bigger profits there is no doubt that the majority of games will be targeted at such an audience. It is the same with every medium and just like every other medium there will still be occaisionally some games that do lean more towards the hardcore audience and casual gamers may surprisingly like some of them.Grand Master Sage said:
it was a hardcore game in disguise, which in retrospect is the point of a lot of people in this thread lol. Play it on God Hard, and you'll see. it quickly turns into contra in 3D.kman123 said:
urhm...
dark souls and witcher 2 would like to have a slight word with you
but even then, hardcore? really?
chillax brah...
gaming is gaming, don't turn it into some odd sacrificial cult.
dark souls and witcher 2 would like to have a slight word with you
but even then, hardcore? really?
chillax brah...
gaming is gaming, don't turn it into some odd sacrificial cult.
You've obviously never tried to fight the final battle with Shao Khan on the latest Mortal Kombat.
TF2 is free to play, yet has the same depth that actual hardcore gamers desire. The Binding of Isaac and Super Meat Boy are cheap, yet have the type of Nintendo Hard difficulty and shoutouts that hardcore gamers can see. Fighting games are still hardcore if you wanna get into the higher end play. I think hardcore games are still around.
Why do I get the feeling this is one of those "things were better when..." arguements that people bring up whenever they've decided modern equals bad. Like clothes or food or the fact that the world is on the highway to hell because global connectivity has made you more aware of atrocities and wars people were content to remain ignorant of a hundred years ago, convinced that "back then" bad things didn't happen.
The medium shifts. That's the nature of any industry. Give it ten years and enough people will be pining for something new, and the developers will be so starved for profit because Halo 12 isn't selling its million copy quota and the "artsy" game developer will return to save the industry the same way directors like Coppella and Lucas saved Hollywood. Then the artsy stuff will become mainstream bcause it's profitable and you'll be back to square one within a decade.
I hate "the old days" of gaming. As fun as some games were there was a lot of unpolished crap out there, and for every developer who "truly cared about games" there were ten other guys who released garbage and got away with it because there wasn't enough competition to turn to for alternatives. They could ride a gravy train on one or two games, using that money to push other small developers aside who couldn't afford the marketing or get their foot in the door long enough to earn namebrand influence.
Quick show of hands, who remembers Nightmare 3D? Or Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold? Anyone? I loved those games. But Doom was the big thing back then, and admit it: you barely cared about the graphics. You were fourteen and you wanted gore and satanic imagery to make your mothers disapprove of you.
Today there's a lot of crap, but you can at least pick your flavor of crap, and small developers have their own niches on XboxLive and the Playstation Store: a bigger bone than their predecessors ever got from the industry. You can lament the loss of "hardcore" gaming as some kind of nostalgic golden age, but if I had to choose between System Shock 2 and Dead Space 2, I'd take Dead Space 2.
The medium shifts. That's the nature of any industry. Give it ten years and enough people will be pining for something new, and the developers will be so starved for profit because Halo 12 isn't selling its million copy quota and the "artsy" game developer will return to save the industry the same way directors like Coppella and Lucas saved Hollywood. Then the artsy stuff will become mainstream bcause it's profitable and you'll be back to square one within a decade.
I hate "the old days" of gaming. As fun as some games were there was a lot of unpolished crap out there, and for every developer who "truly cared about games" there were ten other guys who released garbage and got away with it because there wasn't enough competition to turn to for alternatives. They could ride a gravy train on one or two games, using that money to push other small developers aside who couldn't afford the marketing or get their foot in the door long enough to earn namebrand influence.
Quick show of hands, who remembers Nightmare 3D? Or Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold? Anyone? I loved those games. But Doom was the big thing back then, and admit it: you barely cared about the graphics. You were fourteen and you wanted gore and satanic imagery to make your mothers disapprove of you.
Today there's a lot of crap, but you can at least pick your flavor of crap, and small developers have their own niches on XboxLive and the Playstation Store: a bigger bone than their predecessors ever got from the industry. You can lament the loss of "hardcore" gaming as some kind of nostalgic golden age, but if I had to choose between System Shock 2 and Dead Space 2, I'd take Dead Space 2.
What do I think? I think when I tried playing Arkham City, there were too many damn buttons. Hardcore gaming is alive and well.
Believe me, HC is alive and well and can never die. Someone will always find a way or a game that will be "hard", specially if you count dedication and time spent as factors of becoming HC.
And I am sure the amount of buttons makes no difference on the level of HC a games is. Just look at TF2 or ANY mmo.
And I am sure the amount of buttons makes no difference on the level of HC a games is. Just look at TF2 or ANY mmo.
The niche market will always get its games. Take dark souls for instance. No matter whats wrong with the game you cant tell me it wasnt designed with hardcore gamers in mind!
I think its true that mainstream games have become easier, but there will always be room for really hard games.
Heck, theres also those things called difficulty levels. Casuals play on easy and normal, hardcore gamers play on hard and insane/legendary/veteran/whatever
I think its true that mainstream games have become easier, but there will always be room for really hard games.
Heck, theres also those things called difficulty levels. Casuals play on easy and normal, hardcore gamers play on hard and insane/legendary/veteran/whatever
Wow, you know this? For a fact?! Are you a time traveler?! FOLKS, THIS MAN CAN SEE INTO THE FUTURE AND HE KNOWS ALL!
All sarcasm aside, there will always be hardcore games. Always. There are hardcore games now and there will be hardcore games in the future. To say that hardcore gaming is dead forever is, well ... just wrong. Ever heard of ARMA 2? Trust me, it's hardcore, if only proven by it's overly complicated control scheme.
And speaking of which, what exactly defines "hardcore"? Is it difficulty? Because it seems that obtuse games with fiddly controls, unfairly punishing difficulty and a shit save system is what seems makes a game "hardcore". Also, lack of accessibility to a wide audience seems to also define a game as "hardcore".
If you ask me, I would call "First Person Tetris" hardcore. It's the same old Tetris game from the NES, but when you rotate a piece, the whole screen rotates, making maneuvering a piece into a slot a huge challenge. It can be accessed by anyone, and yet only a few will be able to get to be even marginally good at it. Anyone who can master that sadistic game is one hardcore dude. And yet, it's only browser-based Tetris, but the whole screen rotates.
That's my thoughts on hardcore, anyway ...
All sarcasm aside, there will always be hardcore games. Always. There are hardcore games now and there will be hardcore games in the future. To say that hardcore gaming is dead forever is, well ... just wrong. Ever heard of ARMA 2? Trust me, it's hardcore, if only proven by it's overly complicated control scheme.
And speaking of which, what exactly defines "hardcore"? Is it difficulty? Because it seems that obtuse games with fiddly controls, unfairly punishing difficulty and a shit save system is what seems makes a game "hardcore". Also, lack of accessibility to a wide audience seems to also define a game as "hardcore".
If you ask me, I would call "First Person Tetris" hardcore. It's the same old Tetris game from the NES, but when you rotate a piece, the whole screen rotates, making maneuvering a piece into a slot a huge challenge. It can be accessed by anyone, and yet only a few will be able to get to be even marginally good at it. Anyone who can master that sadistic game is one hardcore dude. And yet, it's only browser-based Tetris, but the whole screen rotates.
That's my thoughts on hardcore, anyway ...
Id say this, I was out in 1982 and I've been a gamer since I was 4 or 5 and I find Dark Souls very challenging. I'd agree with you about FPS games (hardcore GOW3 was a freaking snore fest) in story mode but multiplayer in FPS and other games can be quite the difficulty curve when playing against decent players.silenticecream said:
Ever heard of Land Conquest: Eastern Front? Well, its one of many games running on a 2003 strategy game engine, selling for 80 bucks. It appeals to the niche crowed of semi gamer-complete history buff market. The developer stays in business and does okay for itself. As long as "Hardcore" gaming exists, there will be someone pandering to the hardcore niche.Grand Master Sage said:
![])rStrangelove](https://eg-forums-escapist-data.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/avatars/l/125/125479.jpg?1621029148){kind=avatar}
Nothing is dead. Hardcore gaming is what YOU make it. Mods can go a long way on pc, it just depends which games you choose.
Don't get games you can't mod.
Don't get games you can't mod.
this was a worry we had when the Wii first came out and then it didnt happen. have you been living under a rock since then or what?
A game I would classify as hardcore is I Wanna Be The Guy.
It's about the hardest game I have ever played and it's really frustrating at times. There is no learning curve to the game because it starts out as hard as it will ever get.
Now take Little Big Planet which I would say is a casual game. It eases the player into the experience before increasing the difficulty.
Casual games have learning curves, hardcore games don't always need them if they don't intend to be welcoming. Your case is flawed in its start.
Also we still got lots of hardcore games out there. However would you want games to get more narrow? Do you really think publishers should invest millions to make a game that 200 could beat? I hope you're ready to pay 5000 for every game you buy just because the publishers want to make a profit.
It's about the hardest game I have ever played and it's really frustrating at times. There is no learning curve to the game because it starts out as hard as it will ever get.
Now take Little Big Planet which I would say is a casual game. It eases the player into the experience before increasing the difficulty.
Casual games have learning curves, hardcore games don't always need them if they don't intend to be welcoming. Your case is flawed in its start.
Also we still got lots of hardcore games out there. However would you want games to get more narrow? Do you really think publishers should invest millions to make a game that 200 could beat? I hope you're ready to pay 5000 for every game you buy just because the publishers want to make a profit.