Has Pokemon jumped the shark?

emeraldrafael

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Actually I've felt theyve gotten progressively better. I don't mind the idea of mega evolutions, though i would like tos ee more than fan favorites (charizard, gardevoir, scizor, blaziken) and pokemon that don't need them (metagross, mewtwo, garchomp). Lets see guys like grumpig, camerupt, lopunny, girafirig. Hell, I wouldnt mind them giving them to 2nd teir evolutions, let them compete with their FE counterparts. I like most everything they added, hordes especially since you get pokemon with less than common abilities.

besides, I dont know if you can jump the shark if youre still doing what they've always done at your base.
 

PinkiePyro

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not really.. mega-evolution is kinda stupid I admit but adding fairy type was a good move among the fanbase there has been a general undercurrent of "we need a light type" and "dragon type is overpowered" fairy type pretty much shut up those rumbles

as for horde battles its a logical step forward makes things feel a bit more natural most seem to love or like them


as for *insert thing* battles multiable gens have some battle gimmick the only one that stuck were doubles and the fact you can decline a sky battle is nice (wish they had done that for triples and rotation ones)

privet opinion but I kinda think rotation were ripped off from the fossil fighters series which in all honisty does them a lot better (but all fossil battles are rotation so they kinda have to be) (its not a super well known series but its good and has enough fans it has spawned 2 regular DS games and has a 3DS one pending as of E3)
 

Loop Stricken

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suntt123 said:
Loop Stricken said:
Spambot 3000 said:
Well the thing with horde battles is that they speed up the EV training process by about 5 times faster.
... which was made unnecessary with the training mode thing.
Super Training takes forever, and you can only train one pokemon at a time. You can get like 50-100EVs in one stat per horde battles, and EVs are spread with EXP share, unlike super training.

Super Training is the 'fun' way to EV train. Horde battles are the efficient/fast way
... providing your entire party needs those specific stats and you get the right horde to begin with.
 

Count Lieberkuhn

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I consider every single flagship Pokemon game to be a strict improvement over its predecessors in terms of mechanical improvements (although some games are better than others as a complete package, like Gold/Silver and Diamond/Pearl).

Gold/Silver: Massive improvement over gen 1. Added dark and steel types which balanced out the game (psychics were OP), split special stat into Special Attack and Special Defense, breeding, held items and weather effects to name a few.

Ruby/Sapphire: While omitting several pokemon harmed the game, the addition of natures and abilities did wonders to give previously similar pokemon unique flavours. Also double battles, which rocked.

Diamond/Pearl: Attacks made physical/special on a move-by-move basis, as opposed to being type-based. This was HUGE and the most important improvement in Pokemon history imo. It made so many older pokemon more viable, and opened up loads more strategies. Also Cynthia was the coolest of the champions and one of the toughest.

Black/White: Addition of hidden abilities, and new battle types. Probably the game which innovated the least, though it made up for it by adding a ton of new Pokemon, having a genuinely interesting story and villains, and really fleshed-out and challenging endgame content.

X/Y: Mega Evolutions. While at first glance Megas seem like a gimmick, they can mean a lot for the game and open up a lot of strategy on a competitive level. Since items are so important to top end strategies (Choice items etc), the mega evolutions in many cases feel don't feel like a strict improvement on said pokemon, but rather an alternate way of utilising them competitively. With the addition fairy types to counter the overused dragon type, small stat buffs to several older pokemon to make them a bit more viable, and a very robust and easy-to-access online multiplayer, this game felt like a love letter to the more competitive players more than anything. The Mega Evolutions were just a way of doing this in a way that could be marketed at the child demographic. Clever Nintendo, appealing to both their core fanbases at once with that.
 

PinkiePyro

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Mikeyfell said:
Is there a shark type Pokemon that attacks by jumping?
there is a shark Pokemon Sharpedo and there is a "jumping" move bounce that move tutor can teach it.. does that count?

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bounce
 

Count Lieberkuhn

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Loop Stricken said:
suntt123 said:
Loop Stricken said:
Spambot 3000 said:
Well the thing with horde battles is that they speed up the EV training process by about 5 times faster.
... which was made unnecessary with the training mode thing.
Super Training takes forever, and you can only train one pokemon at a time. You can get like 50-100EVs in one stat per horde battles, and EVs are spread with EXP share, unlike super training.

Super Training is the 'fun' way to EV train. Horde battles are the efficient/fast way
... providing your entire party needs those specific stats and you get the right horde to begin with.
Well typically you only EV train one pokemon at a time (the others are probably all max EVs, or filler), and finding the right hordes is incredibly easy. Use a pokemon with sweet scent to get a horde battle every time, and just do it in the specific area that has the stat you need. Add a power anklet sorta item to increase that amount even further and you can fully EV train a stat in about 15 minutes.
 

suntt123

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Loop Stricken said:
suntt123 said:
... which was made unnecessary with the training mode thing.
Super Training takes forever, and you can only train one pokemon at a time. You can get like 50-100EVs in one stat per horde battles, and EVs are spread with EXP share, unlike super training.

Super Training is the 'fun' way to EV train. Horde battles are the efficient/fast way
... providing your entire party needs those specific stats and you get the right horde to begin with.
Or... You could just not bring the pokemon who dont need those EVs/Turn off the EXP share if they dont need it? The most EVs Super Training will give you is 24 if you got the Double-up Bag. That's not even a quarter/half (depending on which horde) of what you can get from hordes.

You can top off one EV in about 3-6 hordes of pokemon that you can one shot with spread attacks (like Earthquake or Rock Slide), while it can take up to 22 Super Training games to replicate the same result. The only Horde stat that's kind of hard to find is SpAtk (Psyducks with average encounter/Roselia with rare enounter rate on route 7); the rest have common/average encounter rates on at least one route.

Admittedly, you need Power items and PKRS to achieve those results, but even with just a Macho Brace(which is 10-20 EVs per horde) horde battles are quicker.
 

marioandsonic

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I can't really say.

I only played Pokemon Red and Gold when they first came out. But for whatever reason, I just kinda lost interest in Pokemon after that.

I did pick up the Heartgold remake to see if that would rekindle my interest, and it did for a while, but then I lost interest again.

That, and going into the whole IVs and EVs business confused the hell out of me.
 

Leemaster777

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JazzJack2 said:
The only thing that pisses me off about the megas is the fact that Mega Banette is complete shit despite being the best designed mega by a mile and one that really deserved a chance to be useful given how useless regular Banette is
I agree that Banette is definitely one of the better-looking Megas... but I think calling it "shit" is going a bit too far.

One cannot underestimate the usefulness of priority Destiny Bond. Plus, it has a ton of good status moves to abuse with Prankster. Not only that, but it has a really good attack stat to work with, so it's not limited to a purely support role.

The problem with Banette is a simple one: Four Moveslot Syndrome. It CAN do alot of things, but it just doesn't have enough moveslots to take advantage of all it's utility. Every Banette NEEDS to have Destiny Bond, since that's it's claim to fame. And it really SHOULD have Protect as well, since even after Mega Evolution, Banette doesn't have the best defense, and it needs that first turn to Mega Evolve. That leaves you with two moves to work with, and that's not really enough.

I am convinced that a good Banette moveset exists. It simply hasn't been discovered yet. Banette simply has too much potential to be relegated to RU forever. Perhaps ORAS will introduce that key missing piece of the Banette puzzle.
 

Mikeyfell

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chickenhound said:
Mikeyfell said:
Is there a shark type Pokemon that attacks by jumping?
there is a shark Pokemon Sharpedo and there is a "jumping" move bounce that move tutor can teach it.. does that count?

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Bounce
I don't know how to respond to that...

Besides saying FUCKING SWEET!


To me the most "shark jumpy" thing Pokemon did was to add extra evolutions to older generations' pokemon.
But I learned to roll with that.
I also haven't played a Pokemon game since the Gameboy Advanced.
 

Super Cyborg

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Usually when something jumps the shark, it's something that is so ridiculous and over the top that doesn't make sense when considering the rest of the series/franchise. So basically no.

It's nice that the game is simple and open for everyone. It allows younger audiences to get an idea of JRPG mechanics, while older audiences can master the mechanics for competitive play. It allows people to get interested in turn base combat, and maybe down the line try other Turn-based games. That's where me and other people don't care as much for it. After a while, we want a better story, and a game that is more engaging. This is what Persona and the Shin Megami Tensei games are, a game with a better story and has something like catching new demons to help you in battle.

Pokémon is a game that adds new stuff, but it's not huge changes, and stays far away from the shark. It's like other franchises that stay consistently popular, keep the core game the same and change some things up here in there. For me personally, the changes aren't great enough for me to grind 40+ hours just to be the Pokémon champion again, but I won't complain about it because there is no way they are going to change the game for my liking unless is changes the entire game its self.
 

rosac

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Alright, having assessed the views here and also finding that stats have been altered (I still think Raichu needs something over lightning ball thing pikachu)I take my jump the shark comment back.

I still have problems with a lot of megas, mainly design wise (Mewtwo, Charizard x, aerodactyl, pinsir and heracross off the top of my head.) If only because they either seem to be pointless (aero) lose a (in my mind) defining feature of a pokemon (heracross horn style change, garchomp scythe hands, colour scheme of charizard, I much prefer Y for this reason) or just ugly (mewtwo X and Y). Don't get me wrong, a lot look good and are an obvious progression, such as alakazam becoming full on zen warrior with so many spoons and mawiles 2 mouths.

Horde battles and triple/rotation battles annoy me just because it seems like they're just adding more and more pokemon to a single battle, one and one or two on two was fine for me!
 

JayRPG

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Thebazilly said:
Whatislove said:
I love and hate mega-evolutions, I think the way they were implemented was to cut down on copy paste builds.
I don't think Nintendo is even aware of the metagame. The Pokemon franchise has just made so many baffling choices in relation to it that they can't be keeping competitive battling in mind. They gave mega evolutions to the coolest Pokemon and not the ones that needed the stat boost.
They are aware of it, they took strides in X and Y to make it easier for people to get into, most people never even heard of EVs before Super training.

It's just that they are not open to public opinion or ideas, they have their own direction and they stick to it, One of the devs said he laughs at most suggestions that get sent to him/he sees and that the game would be an absolute mess if everything suggested was implemented.

Mega's didn't go to pokemon that actually needed it, they mostly went to pokemon who were already viable/OU, which makes me think they just wanted to destroy the B/W metagame, they took other steps in that direction too, by nerfing weather teams (no more endless rain etc).
 

Divine Retribution

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They didn't jump the shark, but with all the gen 1 references and pandering they made in X and Y, I'd say they were going through a bit of a midlife crisis
 

Something Amyss

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Pokémon is basically the Simpsons of gaming. Every new release "jumps the shark" and people actually argue about what gen it started to suck on. Personally, I think it started to suck the minute they started pandering to the American audience by releasing the games in English. GO BACK TO DOOM, NOOBS!

Eclipse Dragon said:
Now when they start fuzing two Pokemon together[footnote]on a regular basis, Black and White Kyurem is an exception.[/footnote] to make one stronger one, that's when I'll say Pokemon has jumped the shark.
I'd hate for it to happen in the games (also on a regular basis), but now I can't stop picturing Pokéfusions in my mind and some of them are hilarious.
 

elvor0

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FrostDragon said:
There was hardly a shark to jump. Pokemon was always a child's thing, a weak imitation of Eastern Japanese Roleplaying classics such as EarthBound and Chrono Trigger. I assumed that only children who couldn't appreciate the sophisticated games played Pokemon, but evidently this is not the case. Perhaps you would all benefit from enriching yourselves with experiences like Final Fantasy VI and Secret Of Mana, and see what a real jRPG is.
Aw would you look at that, he thinks he's got something to be smarmy about! You have, ironically enough, supplied everyone apart from /you/, something to be smarmy about. For a start, Pokemon is primarily designed to be a multiplayer game, secondly, go check out the pokemon meta for something sophisticated, then get back to me, kay?
 

Piorn

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I wouldn't call it jumping the shark as much as building your entire franchise in the quicksand pit of a trading card game and then desperately piling on stuff before it sinks in completely.
If any franchise needs a full, complete reboot it's pokemon.
Drop the entire turn based 4 attack system of pictures with numbers underneath. That's so 1998.
 

SD-Fiend

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Piorn said:
I wouldn't call it jumping the shark as much as building your entire franchise in the quicksand pit of a trading card game and then desperately piling on stuff before it sinks in completely.
If any franchise needs a full, complete reboot it's pokemon.
Drop the entire turn based 4 attack system of pictures with numbers underneath. That's so 1998.
So what if it's "so 1998"? The turn based system is what made the game famous and dropping it would appeal to absolutely no one who actually plays the games.