Hating Dark Souls?

[Snotnarok]

I would just say no game is perfect and what not, but in most cases with games I think fans are just too critical and need to just sit back and enjoy the game.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I how this game has brought back the biggest bastard to ever curse gaming: confusing bugs and challenge. If its a bug and someone notes that then everyone just says that its actually part of the challenge and stop being a baby. I think all QA departments should just say bugs are intentional challenges and kick off for the day. (before you even say it, you know this games has bugs and you know that people are confusing bugs and challenge. If you want to reply to this post, don't because I'm not listening).

 

[Jenitals]

I fail at the easiest level on just about every game ever. Dark Souls screws me over then doesn't even offer me cigarette.

 

[Burst6]

I haven't yet got my copy of the game but from what i've heard DS is just hard hack'n'slash with no backstory, not many RPG elements, with simple attacks (saw some gameplay where the character can only swing sword left or right) but always overpowered enemies. I'm not sure what people see in that game, if it's just "Super Meat boy hard" then it sounds ok and almost fun, but if it's constant insta-deaths without any visible clues of countering monsters then screw that.

Nah its not that. Monsters do a lot of damage and can kill you pretty quickly, but you can do the same to them.

You have about 6 different ways of attacking an enemy. Light attack, strong attack, jump attack, run attack, dodge attack, and the kick attack (depending on the weapon you're using, this can be replaced with a retreating attack where you dodge back).

You can also wield every weapon (except fist weapons) in 1 or two hands, so you get more attack options. The attacks are usually simple (there are weapons that have powerful special attacks), but they get the job done.

And there IS a story. It's just out of the way and needs to be pieced together from item descriptions and different NPC's. You can avoid it entirely if you want.

 

[flaming_squirrel]

I how this game has brought back the biggest bastard to ever curse gaming: confusing bugs and challenge. If its a bug and someone notes that then everyone just says that its actually part of the challenge and stop being a baby. I think all QA departments should just say bugs are intentional challenges and kick off for the day. (before you even say it, you know this games has bugs and you know that people are confusing bugs and challenge. If you want to reply to this post, don't because I'm not listening).

Really immature approach to discussion, 'here's my opinion but now my fingers are now in my ears'.

But what bugs are these? Other then falling through the world once I've encountered none.

 

[demoman_chaos]

-My snippers, they are very dull now-

Go to the graveyard area in the shrine and find the winged spear (run past the skeletons). It makes everything a lot easier. You can poke with your shield up at things far out of reach of hitting you. It does pretty good damage for a starting weapon and doesn't have high requirements. Once you get to the church behind the big pig, you will find a halberd outside the front door. It is beasty. I always make it a Divine Halberd because the extra boost via magic damage adn you can kill skeletons with a divine weapon.

 

[DanielBrown]

Guess I'll roll pyromancer then...
It's actually the same thing in Demon's Souls. My first char was a knight, which I struggled with, but since I knew the game was gonna woop my ass I stuck with it. Eventually finished the game and felt quite happy with myself... and never wanted to pick it up again.
However, in anticipation for Dark Souls, which should arrive in a few days, I started it up again and made a royal spell caster. Omfg is it easy now. Two shotting everything from range, and if something should get close I just dodge away. Have hardly died at all, but I'm currently stuck on Maneater since I keep getting knocked/dodge off the damn ledge.
One could say that it goes better because I know the levels. It isn't true though. Apart from 1-1, 1-2 and half of 2-1 I have apparently forgotten everything, so it's kind of like exploring a new game!

I prefer melee with a huge shield in this game still though. Makes me feel a bit more safe.

 

[Exius Xavarus]

Now, if you're referring to the Asylum Demon during the tutorial, you can kill him with your fists. I know, I did it. It's not a preferable way to fight him, but I did it simply so I could say I did.

That must have taken quite some time.

It did. :{

 

[Watchmacallit]

There's nothing in the game that can't be killed right away.

There is that one enemy that you lose to the first time no matter what. But yeah, then you go back and kill the spamming bastard. Love your argument, glad to see I'm not the only one that sees this as the player's fault and not the game's.

If you're referring to the Asylum Demon during the tutorial, you can kill him with your fists. I know, I did it. It's not a preferable way to fight him, but I did it simply so I could say I did.

Now, if you're referring to Seath the Scaleless, the first time you battle him, that fight is a scripted event. You can't advance the Duke's Archives without losing to Seath the first time, because the corridors will be blocked by bookcases.

Yeah I was talking about Seath and I know its scripted. As per the bonfire and being given trhe chance to fight him again. The only reason I didn't kill the Assylum Demon with fists is because I don't have that much patience. You are a god

 

[nasteypenguin]

I think that the problem with calling a game difficult is that difficulty is more opinionated than you might think. For instance, while I don't remember encountering many of the problems you've listed; I do remember falling off of ledges several times, but personally I put that down to lack of situational awareness than cheapness on the games part. That's just me however obviously you and likely many others think otherwise, but you have to realise that what you find cheap, other people may find challenging.

On a side note, my biggest gripe with the game is that half the time I have/had no idea what I was supposed to be doing in regards to the plot. There was something about a pilgrimage and a couple bells but most of the time I was just following cut-scenes. I realised later by backtracking that at certain points my motivation was explained by an npc or two but by that time I had been confused for several hours.

 

[Hazy]

Spoiler

1: No reason to be melee. Ive played 3 different classes, and so far, ive noticed a trend. I pick Knight, and the game is.... Difficult. Your weapon feels like it does nothing to anything but basic undead, theres no real point to armor when your shield blocks 100% physical damage and you can dodge everything else, and nearly every enemy has a combo that can almost insta-gib you. But then i play Pyromancer. The game is absurdly easy now. Why? Because nothing gets within 20 feet of me. And if it does, its already at less then half health. Every challenge i ran into as a knight, i instantly blew through as a Pyromancer. Armored battle boar? No problem! I have fireballs for days!

Are you claiming that diverse play styles are a bad thing? There's tons of reasons to be a melee fighter - it's because the combat system feels so satisfying to use. Is magic OP? Well, probably, but it's definitely a far easier build, as players don't need to get nearly as close as they would with a melee character. But they do a nice job of evening out - I ran through Anor Londo with a phantom who was maining a sorceress. She took down Fatbody and Slim in about 5 hits with Soul Spear, granted, she was also stun-locked multiple times by Silver Knights, to which I had to get her out of it. All about picking your battles.

Spoiler

2: Constant weapon bouncing. Nearly all of the melee weapons have a habit of bouncing even if half a pixel grazes anything solid. I do like a game where hit boxes are well made, but theres a limit to it. I find myself bouncing off of every surface within 10 feet, while im being beat on by something immune to wrath of walls. ((Or poisoned by rats i cannot hit))

Haven't run into this a whole lot - but I definitely have run into it, especially with enemies in Anor Londo who wield Halberds.

Spoiler

3: Ledges. Everywhere. Nearly all of the deaths i befell were because of ledges. Anything stronger then a rough breeze and your character either recoils like an electric car hit him, or sends him flying. I take no damage from either of these, yet im dying. Why? Because every ledge and its grandmother want me to die. This was a massive pain in the Taurus demon fight where every swing he took either sent me flying, or was impossible to dodge because i chose a class other then Pyromancer.

You died because of the recoil. This leads to one problem: don't engage enemies where you are most likely going to be screwed. Pick your battles. I've never had an issue with ledges outside of the Silver Knights who shoot Xbox Huge lances at you, and even they can be easily killed by simply taking caution. You get hit because you get hit - it's no voodoo magic, it's the nature of the beast.

Spoiler

4: Random Death. Beings you cant kill, and you accidentally drew agro because you bent a piece of their beloved grass. They come rushing at you, and well, you die. Running is a decent option except they chase you far beyond what i would call an area boundary, and will 2 hit kill you unless you block every attack they throw at you.

There's a popular MMO tactic I use called "Pulling." Take a bow, an arrow, shoot an enemy from a distance, pull him into you, and finish him off.

Also: "Beings you can't kill" implies that they are physically impossible to kill, much like the first Dragon God fight in Demon's Souls. To my knowledge so far, aside from one fight in particular that happens way later, there are no "supposed to lose" fights (even though you can cheat it by using your Ring of Sacrifice, but I digress). Every enemy can be killed - this is coming from somebody who offed the Stray Demon with a longsword at Soul Level 17.

In summation, Dark Souls is not unfair. It's not even hard, it just doesn't hold your hand like 98% of all of the other games in this industry. I've died a minimal number of times because I consider my surroundings, my equipment, and above all else, my enemy.

Go into it, take it slow, and be careful. You'll have a much more gratifying time.

(P.S, and if you were to mention the Fog Ring, I would be supporting you 110%. Fuck that thing straight to hell. What were you thinking, From?)

 

[3LANCER]

I haven't yet got my copy of the game but from what i've heard DS is just hard hack'n'slash with no backstory, not many RPG elements, with simple attacks (saw some gameplay where the character can only swing sword left or right) but always overpowered enemies. I'm not sure what people see in that game, if it's just "Super Meat boy hard" then it sounds ok and almost fun, but if it's constant insta-deaths without any visible clues of countering monsters then screw that.

Nah its not that. Monsters do a lot of damage and can kill you pretty quickly, but you can do the same to them.

You have about 6 different ways of attacking an enemy. Light attack, strong attack, jump attack, run attack, dodge attack, and the kick attack (depending on the weapon you're using, this can be replaced with a retreating attack where you dodge back).

You can also wield every weapon (except fist weapons) in 1 or two hands, so you get more attack options. The attacks are usually simple (there are weapons that have powerful special attacks), but they get the job done.

And there IS a story. It's just out of the way and needs to be pieced together from item descriptions and different NPC's. You can avoid it entirely if you want.

Thanks for clearing that up, I decided not to buy this game (maybe borrow it or download it for xbox in a couple of months). Really doesn't sound like my cup of tea.

 

[Drkstrm]

1: No reason to be melee. Ive played 3 different classes, and so far, ive noticed a trend. I pick Knight, and the game is.... Difficult. Your weapon feels like it does nothing to anything but basic undead, theres no real point to armor when your shield blocks 100% physical damage and you can dodge everything else, and nearly every enemy has a combo that can almost insta-gib you. But then i play Pyromancer. The game is absurdly easy now. Why? Because nothing gets within 20 feet of me. And if it does, its already at less then half health. Every challenge i ran into as a knight, i instantly blew through as a Pyromancer. Armored battle boar? No problem! I have fireballs for days!

No reason you say? Well, allow me to enlighten you. Considering that you seem to have only played the beginning of the game, you wouldn't know this, but there is a massive list of reasons to be melee. First, foremost, and the only one that matters is the fact that it's the easiest way to play. Sure, the beginning may be a little tough. Then you level up. Both yourself and your equipment. As soon as you get to Quelaag (Likely to be the fifth or sixth boss you fight) melee becomes Lord of Battle Methods. Fighting Seath the Scaleless in a ranged battle? Good luck. You'll need some heavy stuff to beat him. The only boss that really gives trouble to melee is the Moonlight Butterfly, but that just requires a little patience and maybe a friendly phantom or two.

2: Constant weapon bouncing. Nearly all of the melee weapons have a habit of bouncing even if half a pixel grazes anything solid. I do like a game where hit boxes are well made, but theres a limit to it. I find myself bouncing off of every surface within 10 feet, while im being beat on by something immune to wrath of walls. ((Or poisoned by rats i cannot hit))

So... Tried luring? Tried using something else? Seriously, walls aren't a hard thing to not hit. THey don't pop up in front of you. Just play right.

3: Ledges. Everywhere. Nearly all of the deaths i befell were because of ledges. Anything stronger then a rough breeze and your character either recoils like an electric car hit him, or sends him flying. I take no damage from either of these, yet im dying. Why? Because every ledge and its grandmother want me to die. This was a massive pain in the Taurus demon fight where every swing he took either sent me flying, or was impossible to dodge because i chose a class other then Pyromancer.

Wait, you're using Taurus Demon as an example? Wow. That guy's piss easy. Smash his crotch 'til he dies and make sure not to stand with your back to a ledge. Not that ledges really matter if your planting your face in his crotch. He barely hits you, and even when he does, the shield'll take the full force of the attack.

4: Random Death. Beings you cant kill, and you accidentally drew agro because you bent a piece of their beloved grass. They come rushing at you, and well, you die. Running is a decent option except they chase you far beyond what i would call an area boundary, and will 2 hit kill you unless you block every attack they throw at you.

How about you try, erm, learning? Getting better? Seriously, the only thing that's tough at the beginning of the game is the Dragon. I've never bothered killing it because there's no reason to. Apart from that, every enemy in the game can be beaten easily if you're properly prepared. Those skeletons at Firelink Shrine? Sure they're tough at the beginning but they're easy to read. The Crystal Golems? They'll hit hard, but they're ridiculously slow. The Hydras? Melee them. The rest is obvious. There's nothing you can't kill, even at Soul Level 1. That's why people have completed the game at Soul Level 1.

Oh, and:

List of challenges im proud of.

Completing all G-rank monster hunter quests.
Completing the Diamond Heist in "Payday: The Heist" on the hardest difficulty, never getting taken into custody, without killing any hostages.
Quadra-Kill as Malzahar on LoL using only 2 visions and my silence.
Winning a 1v3 Spleef match on my server for Minecraft.

Those are challenges. Dark Souls doesnt give challenges, it gives you a shovel, and tells you to dig 350+ graves for your massively accumulating pile of corpses.
I have patients. I have lots of it. Its the reason i havent returned this game and demanded a full refund on it. ((I know i wouldnt get it, but its the thought that counts))
I know what a challenge is. This isnt a challenge, its a masochist's wet dream. And i dont have the time, nor conviction to use the nubs i once called hands to break away at the steel casket im buried myself in. xD

You don't know what challenge is. Your idea of challenge seems to be doing what you have to and doing it well. You want to show you're good with challenges? Fight a Fatalis without any armour. Maybe do it with the Giant Ham. Or, if you're feeling particularly devilish, try fighting the Alatreon with an Iron Dagger. If you want a game that is challenging, keep playing Dark Souls. You want to have challenges? Set them yourself. Doing stuff that's in a game isn't completing a challenge, that's completing a task. Fable is the only game I have that rewards you for challenging yourself. Never before seen a game that gives you more stuff for playing it naked.

 

[Ghostkai]

Not that much to add. Others have said what needed to be said. And I know you don't want to hear it OP.

It comes down to you.

Your own skills and observations. It's a game where you are meant to LEARN from your mistakes.

Weapon bouncing? Why not be more adaptable. Your big weapon clashing with walls and screwing you over? Why not try a different attack type. Or better yet, change weapon.

Falling off ledges? I've died maybe 1-2 times from that. It was stupid and my own fault (been playing 20+ hours). Let's be honest, it was your fault too.

Unkillable enemies? Sorry, no. There is ONE enemy in the game that insta-kills you in a scripted event (and it's quite late in the game). Everything else, EVERYTHING, is killable with nothing but your fists and at SL1. Someone already posted the video of someone killing the Asylum Demon with fists so i won't post again. If a boss killed you, it's because you weren't good enough or were unprepared. Use the death to learn. Learn the boss, learn the fight, learn the attack patterns. I can assure you, there's a pattern to every boss.

And don't complain about any of the "classes", past the first 10 or so levels, it won't make a blind bit of difference what class you started with. You can make a character as good as you want and have it play how you want. You could turn your knight into a heavy spellcaster, or your pyro into a backstabbing dex based character.

Speaking as someone who never touched Demon's Souls, I adore Dark Souls. It's challenge is incredibly refreshing, I think back to when I started playing, and how utterly shit I was at the game. Now I think about now, and how much of a badass I feel tearing through enemies like butter.

(Oh, and the falling attack is your friend... It's really good for a bunch of bosses.)

 

[sheah1]

Okay, new rule: If someone says they don't Like Dark or Demon's Souls, they're not allowed to say "let me tell you, I've played such and such a game all the way through", because as soon as you do, you sound like a whiney ***** to me.
Sorry. Needed to be said.

 

[Ghostkai]

Overall, when you finally kill that giant Vagina Monster or the Scaleless Dragon or those Belfry Gargoyles single-handedly; it is one of the greatest feelings I have felt in a long while whilst playing a game.

And that, fellow Escapists, is the appeal of this great game. Well said.

 

[ChaoticKraus]

I've only logged 12 hours so far and are running around in the Undead Parish but i'll give my 2 cents. Oh and i play DEX-oriented Wanderer.

I feel like that the truth lies somewhere between the OP's and the other posters viewpoint. Most of the time the game is hard but manageable. If you get shot in the back while fighting a boss it's your fault because you didn't check the surroundings properly. If a enemy is with his friends you lure them apart or make them engage you in think passages, if you are fighting on a ledge or in a corridor you drag them away from there.

But sometimes the game pulls pure dickmoves, hides enemies behind corners, combos that are impossible to get out of etc. If i die to this kind of shit i punch the table, swear and turn off the game. But i usually come back the next day because every sucess is sweet in this game.

My main gripe is with how they put incredibly powerful guys in the beginning of the newbie zone. The only way i'm able to kill the black knights is by using the drake sword, but that makes me feel bad because it feels like i'm cheating myself of a challenge. And don't get me started on the knight guy in the tower with the banana hammer, that guy is just ridiculous.

Another gripe is how hard it is to get started in the game, i acutally had to check a wiki just to understand what all stats did and how to perform certain vital actions. They really should have done a better job of introducing everything.


Also, where the fuck do i find weapons in this game? The only good ones i found are the drake sword and the black knight greatsword. But the drake sword feels cheap and i dont have the strength for the greatsword. Ideally i would want to find a curved sword because i really love the moveset. (No i won't kill the merchant for a katana).