Play it with the intention of riffing it and you'll be alright. Seriously this is going to be the "Plan 9" of games. i know I wouldn't have been interested in it if it weren't this way.dreadedcandiru99 said:
Having second thoughts about Heavy Rain here...
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To me the real deal-breaker in Heavy Rain is that the gameplay is so non-interactive. It seriously reminds me of the Dragon's Lair laser-disc arcade games. Great graphics, great music, great atmosphere but it's all for nothing if you can't actually play the game. I'd rather just watch a DVD or something, at least then I don't have to pointlessly hit buttons just to keep the story going.dreadedcandiru99 said:
Oh my goodness... That was TERRIBLE. This might as well be "Uncanny Valley: The Game". Which actually sounds like a very awesome and hilarious idea for a game - except, it seems as though people are trying to be serious about it, and also that the developers tried to be serious about it.
Unintentional hilarity is still purty awesome though...
In all seriousness though, I don't really see the point of this. If you're going to make us do a bunch of annoying QTE's, then at least have us do something really fun and awesome. It seems as though this game is trying to be as cinematic as possible, which makes me wonder - why didn't they just make a movie!? The metal gear solid games do this to. If you want to just tell a really cool and/or awesome and deep and intricate cinematic thingie, then just make it a movie.
Heck, why don't movie theaters start handing us controllers before going in to our movie, and we can influence what happens in the movie by pressing random buttons when it tells us to!?
That actually sounds kind of awesome... in a weird way, I think...
Unintentional hilarity is still purty awesome though...
In all seriousness though, I don't really see the point of this. If you're going to make us do a bunch of annoying QTE's, then at least have us do something really fun and awesome. It seems as though this game is trying to be as cinematic as possible, which makes me wonder - why didn't they just make a movie!? The metal gear solid games do this to. If you want to just tell a really cool and/or awesome and deep and intricate cinematic thingie, then just make it a movie.
Heck, why don't movie theaters start handing us controllers before going in to our movie, and we can influence what happens in the movie by pressing random buttons when it tells us to!?
That actually sounds kind of awesome... in a weird way, I think...
I couldn't be much more excited for it myself. It could just be one long cutscene (it isn't) with a couple quick time events and I'd still buy it. I trust David Cage to deliver a good product.
I don't know what everyone is bitching about. I think it looks extraordinary, and I am impressed that the developers are taking such a risk with this title. In the second video(on youtube), you should probably watch what happens beyond that part. There are five parts, and some pretty neat stuff goes on in them. The voice acting in that other bit sounded less than stellar, but I really love the way the QTEs rush you and create a panicky situation. I thought the scene where the guy loses the boy was thrilling, although the bit at the end with the car did suck - too melodramatic and too stupid. The rest looks and sounds excellent though.
The game actually makes me wish I had a PS3.
The game actually makes me wish I had a PS3.
Considering that 2 of the 4 current reviewers are Official PlayStation Magazine (US and UK)? http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/heavyrainZing said:
I'm not saying that the game won't be good - I loved Indigo Prophecy('s first half). But quoting a (relatively meaningless) metacritic score when none of the major outlets have reviewed the game? There are better ways of discussing a game's merits than arbitrary numbers posted by some aggregated authority. All the numbers show is that those reviewers liked it, not why.
That said, I'd like a PC port.
4 review scores on metacritic is nothing to go by. Also, I'm keeping a cautious eye on Heavy Rain. Won't be a first day buy, but I may buy it.
This game is going to be fine. Your judging it based on what appears to be just a character introduction level and a shitty LP. Just wait for it to release, and if you're still unsure about it, wait for the reviews to be tallied.
I simply pointed out the obvious. I don't own a PS3 nor will I ever own a PS3. Every single video I have seen of Heavy Rain has been boring, slow-paced, and very unimpressive. I'm not some typical shooter tard either, I just have no idea why anyone would find this game interesting. If you like this kind of stuff, there's this whole industry about motion pictures, maybe you've heard of it.Zing said:
Also I'll say again that review scores mean very little to the individual. If you like this type of game, good for you. I imagine the portion of the console owners out there that would be interested in this game is in the vast minority, however.
QTE's are not a feature, in fact they are not anything other than what you normally do in every other video game ever made. The only difference between QTE's and everything else is the explicit prompt.
Yeah, but GOW is the one game I can think of where the QTEs are awesome...-Pod- said:
Actually no, Resi 4 has good ones too.
My concerns with the game are fairly simple. First, if the game is supposed to be a cinematic experience using the most general definition, I don't want a game that presents it's supposed qualities with poor quality voice performances. Animating a belivable character is only half the battle with immersion - if the voices do not convey similar information that I would expect given my knowledge of a character and their current prediciament, a catastrophic breach of immersion occurs. If a game is expected to stand solely on the strength of the narrative and, by association, the characters, then these things cannot be compromised. Enjoyable mechanics have been discarded in the most fundamental sense by replacing them with QTE's and while I don't feel that there is any distinct error in doing so, this mechanic has never and likely will never deliver an interesting mechanical experience. I am not being asked to make a decision so much as I am asked simply to react to stimulus, and as near s I can tell reacting properly to a QTE never results in a negative experience. Thus the gameplay itself is quite literally a game of simon says with fairly harsh punshments imposed not on my ability to properly judge a situation but rather on my ability to respond to on screen prompts.
If a game is going to limit my interaction to this degree, then I must rely almost entirely on the strength of the characters and the narrative to make any investment of time and money to be worthwhile. Thus far, I remain relatively unconvinced that this has been accomplished. Still, my interest level is sufficient at the moment that, should the game be generally well recieved by reviewing authorities, I will likely pick it up at some point but there is hardly a rush on the purchase.
If a game is going to limit my interaction to this degree, then I must rely almost entirely on the strength of the characters and the narrative to make any investment of time and money to be worthwhile. Thus far, I remain relatively unconvinced that this has been accomplished. Still, my interest level is sufficient at the moment that, should the game be generally well recieved by reviewing authorities, I will likely pick it up at some point but there is hardly a rush on the purchase.
Amen on thatWalkchalk said:
judge a game yourself, dont let someone else tell you its crap
if i listen to others about games, i wouldent have mass effect (but i did have halo 3...)
And so the Heavy Rain Hate fest has begun... I expected this sooner or later.
Fortunately, there are enough people out there who don't feel as if a game needs to be a 40 hour gun-blazing twitch fest to actually be FUN and/or interesting.
I applaud the attempt at going in a different direction for gaming, and honestly it's about time for a new genre anyway. If you want to be technical, almost every game is comprised of "QTE"... you press buttons in order to perform an action, whether it be hitting x a billion times like in God of War, or hitting the triangle to pass in Madden. Timing, and correct button pressing is essentially the foundation of video gaming.
But to all the people out there who try to contend against the Jack Thompson's of the world that video games are more than just mindless violence placebos to placate the angst ridden layabout youth, THIS game looks to be actually TRYING to marry the art of video game presentation to gameplay, a bridge that has yet to really be done effectively. Sure, some games have pretty decent story lines and characters, but usually those things are delivered either through cut scenes or text dialogue and are usually non-interactive segments seperated by long action sequences of gameplay.
Take for example, Uncharted. Uncharted series has successfully found a method of combining the quality of a blockbuster summer action movie with a fun video game. In a word, it's cinematic, but those moments are still split up by segments where you must run, jump, climb, and shoot for a predetermined period of time until you are graced with a cut scene that extends the story.
What heavy rain is aiming to do is to introduce a new level of storytelling and presentation, to add an experience that is rich and artistic with some gameplay elements. You could simply pass it off as an interactive FILM, but that would probably not do it justice.
My suggestion is for people to stop condemning the game before it's even released, and give it a try yourself when it's available. You might be pleasantly surprised about how fun a game full of QTEs can be.
Fortunately, there are enough people out there who don't feel as if a game needs to be a 40 hour gun-blazing twitch fest to actually be FUN and/or interesting.
I applaud the attempt at going in a different direction for gaming, and honestly it's about time for a new genre anyway. If you want to be technical, almost every game is comprised of "QTE"... you press buttons in order to perform an action, whether it be hitting x a billion times like in God of War, or hitting the triangle to pass in Madden. Timing, and correct button pressing is essentially the foundation of video gaming.
But to all the people out there who try to contend against the Jack Thompson's of the world that video games are more than just mindless violence placebos to placate the angst ridden layabout youth, THIS game looks to be actually TRYING to marry the art of video game presentation to gameplay, a bridge that has yet to really be done effectively. Sure, some games have pretty decent story lines and characters, but usually those things are delivered either through cut scenes or text dialogue and are usually non-interactive segments seperated by long action sequences of gameplay.
Take for example, Uncharted. Uncharted series has successfully found a method of combining the quality of a blockbuster summer action movie with a fun video game. In a word, it's cinematic, but those moments are still split up by segments where you must run, jump, climb, and shoot for a predetermined period of time until you are graced with a cut scene that extends the story.
What heavy rain is aiming to do is to introduce a new level of storytelling and presentation, to add an experience that is rich and artistic with some gameplay elements. You could simply pass it off as an interactive FILM, but that would probably not do it justice.
My suggestion is for people to stop condemning the game before it's even released, and give it a try yourself when it's available. You might be pleasantly surprised about how fun a game full of QTEs can be.
There is an explicit difference between a QTE and the more common interfaces presented in games.shadow skill said:
With QTE's you are generally faced with an improvement in the current character state if one successfully navigates them and can reasonably assume their state will be diminshed at best if a QTE is failed. Thus, the QTE represents a binary switch in the best of terms - eithr one passes or fails the task set before them. What is being measured here is not one's capacity to correctly judge a situation and deliver an approiate respone (which is the more usual high level mechanic in play) but rather the player's capacity to recognize and respond to explicit data presented by the game. My input as a player has been reduced to a pass/fail test - either I correctly respond and move forward or I do not and am set back in some fashion.
If one were to look past the most obvious complaint in QTE's (that they are simply annoying) they will likely find that the true complaint lodged against the mechanic is that the player's input has been fundamentally reduced. Rather than being free to choose a less than optimal path the QTE forces a binary state - either one suceeds at a given task or they fail. While this gives the developer certain freedom in determining how a cartain action ought to play out, it comes at the price of reducing the player's input determining the ultimate fate of a character. To put it simply, even the simplest form of shooter allows for a margin of failure when guaging success. In Doom one can do incredibly poorly throughout the course of a gunfight and still succeed in the end by sacrificing resources (health, ammunition, etc). In a game like Heavy Rain, my own input is fantastically limited in order to allow for a more tightly controlled narrative. It is entirely possible that this method can be worthy of both my time and money but this determination must be made largely on the factors that I, as a player, do not control.
Historically speaking, the developer does not have a history of delivering a coherent and rasonble narrative and has relied more than once on a 1% solution, otherwise known as a deus ex machina. Resolution to player problems has historically beeen the product of magical or othewise unexplaiend solutions being presented. While some may enjoy such a thing, this device in general has not been in favor in centuries specifically because it requires no skill on the part of the author or artist to implement. Once the internal reality of the narrative is breached, one is free to do anything they wish which often results in a degradation of immersion. In short, the magical solution is generally considered a tool of the unskilled writer and artist. In indigo prophecy, much of the game was the result of relativly mundane relatable things but in the end the resolution literally involved the invocation of magic. For those that are unaware, magic in any narrative is simply an analog for anything the creater does not properly understand.
The deus ex machina can work perfectly fine of course, and so long as a story stays true to it's internal logic there is no problem. Magic is utterly acceptable in a narrative that presents a reasonable set of rules governing the use thereof. Thus the second problem presents itself. If the story is, in fact, true to its internal logic, it will rely on the strength of writing, animation and acting to carry it forward. If my input has been reduced to a simple series of pass/fail tests then the narrative and characters must propel it forward. Thus far I have seen sufficient evidence to judge that the physical acting (animation) is sufficient but I have yet to see any example of either writing or acting that convinces me the game is worthy of the investment of time and money. I certainly hope that I am proven wrong because the core premise being delivered is interesting, in spite of my distaste for the QTE. Again, from a historical perspective, both voice acting and the writing itself tend to see immense improvement in the latter stages of development and I hope to see improvement in the coming weeks. As I have already said, my current interest is sufficient that I will almost certainly play the game, but I am not readily willing to pay $60 for the experience at the moment. This is a rare example where I will almost certainly be forced to await the reviews of trusted sources before I make the call.
I'll be honest, if I had to pay extra to pre-order the game and extra things with it, I would consider stopping the pre-order.
However, regarding the complaint of her saying her line wrong with more haste than feeling, I don't see it. She sounds generally irritated. I can see where your coming from, but I think that's just her tone of anger, just like some people slow their speech down and talk slowly when angry.
However, regarding the complaint of her saying her line wrong with more haste than feeling, I don't see it. She sounds generally irritated. I can see where your coming from, but I think that's just her tone of anger, just like some people slow their speech down and talk slowly when angry.
It seems to be a rule of the universe that when something radically different is tried there will be a measure of dissent.HyenaThePirate said:
I don't expect a game to be a gun blazing twitch fest, but when my level of interaction has been reduced to a series of pass/fail tests I expect something to be presented to make the experience worth my time and money. In the case of a movie where my level of itneraction is reduced to passively experiencing the narrative, this means I expect a coherent narrative that stays true to its internal logic, solid acting and professional direction. It is quite easy to remind me that I am watching a movie and playing a game - when this constructed reality is breached in any fashion the overall package is dimished as a result.HyenaThePirate said:
In general you are correct, but a key piece of information that you are not presenting is that while our methods of control are generally binary and often the tests themselvs being presented are the same there is a level of granualarity of detail that allows for a variable experience. The QTE as presented here represents a pure binary input/output system - it is a measure of reaction and recongnition, nothing more. My complaint with such a system is simple - it reduces my ability to affect the outcome significantly. I am not required to make a decision during a QTE - either I respond appropiately and pass or I do not and fail. While Heavy Rain has presented variable levels of success where one can alternately pass and fail given tests and still generate an acceptable outcome, I will almost certainly derive no pleasure from a moment to moment gameplay that ultimately asks for failure or success.HyenaThePirate said:
Technical inputs are important when mastering any activity, and from this perspective heavy rain is, in fact, no different than it's peers. In the games that I tend to enjoy however I appropiate technial input is simply a portion of the overall mechanical package being delivered. To properly time an action I am often asked to recognize an opening, to choose an appropiate input I must recognize stimulus vectors. Heavy Rain has seemingly discarded much of this in favor of a tightly controlled narrative. While such levels of control do allow for a stronger, more coherent narrative, they inherently reduce any enjoyment I might have with the mechanics in question. The QTE is, to use an analogy, nothing more than a game of simon says
The trouble I have with this statement is that you are trying to secure the moral high ground - a maneuver that can only result in a stalemate at best. If you want to make a movie the technolgy and techniques are well understood. If one wants to craft a compelling narrative then they need look no further than a novel for information on how this accomplished. These two aspects have been done already by other media. What the game allows that books, plays, movies and radio do not is that they grant the audience the ability to affect the outcome. Heavy Rain allows the player to do precisely this but the mechanics themselves have been declared uninteresting at best by the world at large. The result therefore has been presented as a movie where my ability to recognize and react to on screen stimulus will affect the outcome. If I am skilled at this endeavor then the position of the chracters is improved. If I am not, their position is diminished. I am not being asked to make a decision, I am being asked to simply react - this is my problem with the game as presented thus far.HyenaThePirate said:
Games have long struggled with how to present a narrative. Confining narrative and gameplay into discreet sections has been favored for years and for many this is sufficient. The problem of course is that the narrative is being propelled by actions outside the player's control. That Heavy Rain has chosen to allow the player to affect the story in fundamental ways through their interaction is certainly commendable, but again my problem is in the system used to do so. I am not making a choice I am simply asked to respond - I as a player cannot choose the course of the narrative in the pursest sense and can only guide the action along pre-deterimed rails where success at a moment will improve my lot and failure will diminish it. I, as as a player, do not find this to be terribly appealing amd am thus forced to judge the game on the merits of it's narrative rather than on its mechanics. As I have already stated repeatedly, this may not be the proper route to go since this game is competing with movies, books and plays in this regard and these other media have traditionally done a superior job.HyenaThePirate said:
This is the trouble that I am seeing with all media I have been presented. I have seen little evidence that a game in the purest sense is present and have instead been handed a choose your own adventure DVD. Unfortunately, the animation (while excellent for a game) is still inferior to what a person can do, the writing seems less compelling than what I've seen in other media and the acting has been spotty at best. It is entirey possible that this is an incredible game and I have watched it with considerable itnerest for quite some time but thus far I have not been given anything that indicates this exercise is anything but a rough proof of concept.HyenaThePirate said:
I can only make decisions based upon the information presented. Offical media have not lead me to believe that the mechanics will be enjoyable, nothing about the story seems like a tale I haev not heard elsewhere in one form or another, acting has been spotty on all fronts and writing (which may simply be a product of translation) has been uneven at best. Those generally considered responsible for filtering this on my behalf (such as the good folks at the Escapist) have kept my interest simply by maintaining a high level of excitment about the product and it is perhaps this fact alone that keeps me from writing off the game altogether. I do hope that the game is better than it has been presented to me thus far of course because I'd like another excuse to boot up the PS3 that doesn't invovle watching a movie.HyenaThePirate said: