Hayao Miyazaki: Anime Suffers Because the Industry is Full of "Otaku"

[Kittyhawk]

I agree with him, he's right. Anime used to be about telling a good story with good rounded characters, but as the years have progressed, its largely turned into a circle jerkfest. More fans go the Gainax route and enter into the anime industry, chasing the dream. When they get in the door, they are caught up in the mire of studios who largely don't want to take any chances, let alone seek any inspiration or creative influence from outside of anime or games. As for the tropes, they wore thin ages ago.

Now sure, there are occasional shows that come along and are great in story and characters, and its a shame when many fans miss them, because they chose to watch more crap pandering harem/moe shows. Anime is lacking a lot of originality and imagination than what it once has.

I think the only solution to this problem, is for more animators to do their own thing like Studio Trigger. Do smaller projects that are more original and don't have to rely on huge tv deal and heavy advertising. Perhaps go the crowd-funding route and just stick your creations online like ST did with Inferno Cop (which is simple in creation, but insanely fun in execution and found an audience). When we get more small studios like Trigger in Japan, more original anime will come along eventually. I know they have a group attitude in Japan, but a large number of people making the same kind of thing doesn't help all the time.

I'll look forward to seeing what Trigger create with their Kill La Kill contract money. Lets hope more Inferno Cop.

 

[FalloutJack]

On the other hand, there is no requirement per se for anime to be filled with realistic characters. True, that's a good challenge to try and make, but it's not entirely necessary for it to take off.

 

[strumbore]

hmm, I wonder if this criticism could be extended to other animated industries...?

 

[Crazy Zaul]

So basically he said "suck it nerds" and claimed to to be one one the cool kids.

 

[Frozengale]

I think I like this guy. One of the reasons I really can't stand anime is that it always feels like it's derived from other anime, and once you get into a cycle of turning to your own industry for the majority of your inspiration, reference, and where you pull your ideas and creativity from, it becomes very stale and predictable. It's why I also can't stand styles like steampunk and even traditional high fantasy to a point.

The same problem exists in video games as well, where you have artists pulling from comics, anime and other games instead of looking outside of the "nerd kingdom" to history, culture and art history. I hear about people not getting jobs because they're not as "passionate of gamers" as the team wants them to be, but they might bring something new and valuable with their experience that may be slightly nontraditional.

In my opinion, the solution is to welcome people who might come from different backgrounds, and the more variety you have in the people making the game, anime, or whatever, that cycle will eventually break and more people will become interested in pursuing these kinds of careers.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Most people that want to get into Game Design are recommended to read Jesse Schell's "The Art of Game Design" at one point or another. One of the stories that he tells in that book is when he went to a Juggling Convention when he was a kid. One of the best jugglers there with the most interesting tricks told him that he didn't learn those tricks from other people, but rather from observing the world, that he learned tricks from doing something as simple as observing a household fan. Schell even states that having an interest in things other then video games is what helps him to be such a good designer.

Some of the most famous and interesting games were made because the designer was trying to apply something that had nothing to do with gaming into a gaming context. Pikmin was inspired by the designers love of Gardening, and Pokemon is the designers love letter to Bug Collecting. You can make great games by emulating and evolving current ones. But it's easier to make something truly unique when you step away from the current zeitgeist and culture.

One of the reasons I love some Anime is because you can't find stories like this in our Western Culture. You won't find something like Madoka Magica, Attack On Titan, or Death Note. But so often I look at Anime in the last few years and I can see trends or themes that are used over and over. I can easily and readily spot the influence of other Anime, or other closely related cultures. They all tend to bleed into each other and it becomes predictable. Even the art styles start to blend together, to the point that many people actually define Anime as an art style, rather then cultural distinction in cartoons.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

The only really recent anime I have gotten into is Attack on Titan, and that seems to be going out of it's way to get out of normal tropes.

People die in quick, brutal, and often meaningless ways. Most females have the body (i.e. flat chests) of athletic women who run around roof tops for a living.

Spoiler: The hero isnt portrayed as a lovable idiot we see so often, someone who is very dumb but strong and gets new super powers when the plot demands, but a barely contained Psychopath, only kept around to focus his murderous urges on the Titans.

For example, he almost casually murdered two men, who, granted, were going to Mikasa into sex slavery, when he was age nine. He constantly repeats his desire to kill all the Titans, with a smile that screams "I would stab you over a pencil if I wanted it badly enough."

Really, the last person you would want to be the last hope for mankind.

It is deeply about character interacting in realistic ways, given the situation.

Also, teenagers being sent out to fight is more an act of a desperate humanity than anything else.

 

[Ariseishirou]

He's right, obviously. The otaku-ification of anime certainly drove me out of it, and a ton of other former anime fans I know. The only people still watching it among my acquaintances are the extreme neckbeards and fujoshi who love the moeshit and the yaoi-pandering. Normal stories for a normal audience are hard to find these days, and while niche and pandering shit always existed, normal used to be the majority. It has turned into a circle jerk and like so many other posters here the last thing I paid attention to was Attack on Titan because it was different, for once - though even it is now slowly being devoured by asinine shounen tropes that I have no interest in watching.

 

[jhoroz]

Get in line Miyazaki, Hideki Anno has been shitting on the Otaku subculture through Evangelion for years now.

But yeah, I completely agree with him. When 90% of each anime season is comprised of slice-of-life shows that's story and character have little to no bearing in the way people actually are in reality and are solely designed to cater as fan-service for your average anime nerd, I can't blame him for what he's saying.

 

[Nickolai77]

Miyazaki makes a very valid point but i'd like to point out two things:

1)A lot of animes are set in fantasy universes or with supernatural and magical elements. Whilst there isn't anything wrong in writing realistic characters to fill unrealistic universes there isn't anything wrong in writing unrealistic characters for them either as they tend to blend more into the unreal setting they find themselves in. Whilst this isn't an anime i'll use it because it's a good example: Game of Thrones is a universe of Machiavellian medieval real-politik, but as a universe it is reliant on it's characters behaving like scheming evil assholes to each other. Fill Game of Thrones with perfectly ordinary and normal characters and it simply doesn't work. For some fantasy universes to "work" you need fanciful characters.


2)Related to the above point- Often unrealistic characters are more interesting than normal ones. One of my favourite characters of all time is Revy from Black Lagoon, a female gun wielding psychopath with anger issues. I don't expect to ever meet someone vaguely like her in real life, nor would I particularly want to, but such characters certainly grab your attention. In addition, abnormal characters are more likely to make decisions and take risks that a normal character would not do, and hence make the storyline more dramatic.

And finally, like gaming, a lot of people also watch anime as a form of escapism from the real world. Certain audiences are more inclined to escapism than others, and few are more inclined than anime otakus.


However, I agree there's something of a gap in the market for anime's being set in more realistic scenario's with realistic characters. Not where your highschool is overun by zombies, but you have magical powers, a gundam and a harem of adoring female fangirls. If anime increasingly goes in the narrowing direction of fanciful situations with fanciful characters then in the end the genre's going to slowly stagnate into obscurity. You need diversity to flourish as a genre.

So I can certainly get behind a call for anime to become more diverse as a genre and encompass normal characters acting in situations we can all relate to.

 

[Squilookle]

I don't think the Anime industry understands, Miyazaki. You should demonstrate how an anime should be made by making another five movies. Actually 10.

Uhuh. Yep. Definitely.

 

[gunny1993]

I think extending that attitude towards such a diverse genre as Animie is a bit silly, there's a place for ALL the anime that exists today.

I see the point he's making and I can agree; even shows like "Nyarko: the crawling chaos" (The second series essentially forgets the satire in the original and just turns into a harem moe thingy) which is very tongue in cheek about these tropes still conforms to them.

One of the things that makes me love animie is that the eastern culture is almost entirely unaffected by the Abrahamic religions, leading to something that is totally different from western literature. But large amounts of animie out today have fallen into a rut of becoming somewhat generic, thus making any cultural differences useless by sheer exertion of numbers.

Fortunately I was late to the anime game and there are still a few great ones being released (although i think the last one that really impressed me Another in 2012). And I have to say I love slice of life animies, K-on and squid girl ftw.

 

[Dragonbums]

He makes a good point. If you don't know how people in real life work, how are you going to make the people in your creation believable and relatable?

On another note, I think I remember hearing that Miyazaki has a son who's going to follow in his footsteps. Is this true?

Yes and no. More on the no side. His son made one movie to my knowledge, but it was considered average at worst. His son is mainly an architect (and a damn good one at that) he made the Studio Ghibli museum for his father. However this choice in career did strain their relationship for a while.

 

[scorptatious]

snip

I don't watch anime too often. But I do know what you mean about the whole recapping thing.

There was this one anime I watched a while ago, Kare Kano, which at first I thought was a somewhat decent show. But the show had a nasty habit of recapping practically everything at the beginning of each episode. Towards the end, it took at least five minutes to recap everything. And at about halfway through, they spent TWO EPISODES showing every single key scene in all the past episodes.

Among some of the show's other problems, I felt that really cut into whatever quality the show may have had.

 

[Dragonbums]

On the one hand, he's got a point. There is something to be said for the problems the industry faces partially being the result of its fandom.

On the other, this is essentially biting the hand that's fed you for your entire career right before you're slated to retire. It comes across as sort of a dick move that a guy whose entire history of success was kick-started largely because of "otaku" would come out and say how he thinks those same people are ruining the industry.

I think there needs to be a disclaimer for the different meanings of Otaku in Japan and here.

Miyazaki and to extension Studio Ghibli, are the western equivalent of Walter Disney and his Walt Disney studio. His movies were enjoyed by a lot more than Otaku, but by the general Japanese population and the world as a whole.

Otaku in Japan does not mean a fan of anime.

It means a person who loves anime to unhealthy and obsessive degrees, and to top it all off, they are complete and total shut ins. They rarely interact with people aside from getting food and going to work.

These are the kinds of people Miyazaki is talking about. He isn't talking about you or me who watch some anime- enjoy it, and do other things.

He's talking about what are essentially the Japanese equivalent of basement dwellers getting into the animation industry en masse and making anime that only really applies to other fellow basement dwellers and alienates everyone else.

 

[nogitsune]

Seriously, Introvert shaming... I don't Respect Miyazaki anymore, I just can't. It's something that people like to do but really, whether your extroverted or Introverted is independent of talent. It could be a stagnation of Talent, that happens to pretty much any industry but really it sounds like he's blaming Introverts and that's stupid. I'm sorry I know people like to think that Introverts are losers that can't do anything but it's BS and there's plenty of Introverts that have made great things. Some people do great when they can think alone.

Honesty if anything's wrong, it's the cowardice from the top, I've seen anime from all the eras and really I can tell it's going for the lowest common denominator and making easy stuff that the fans would buy anyways, not for the introverted people in the industry. They only want the low hanging fruit. I've seen it in a lot of things, especially science fiction and fantasy novels. They're a good gauge as you can often see Authors that were once great or at least good start to churn out drek that only their fans would even bother with. It's the same person and they didn't all of a sudden become Otakus, they got lazy and went for the easy money.

Seriously, how can gamers not see that, it's not introverted game makers ruining our industry but the suits at the top that only want the easy money and don't want the people making games to challenge themselves. It's far better criticism than to name call people in the industry and shame them for being introverted.

 

[Apl_J]

Introvert does not mean what you think it does, or you're confused about what Miyazaki's saying.

Introvert + anime fan does NOT equate to the stereotypical shut-in who hates real people and instead idolizes flat, tropy characters because they embody some absurd quirk. That kind of person doesn't just need a break from people, they actively avoid all interaction. That is the kind of person that he's worried about, and while these people typically are introverts, introverted anime fans as a whole are not comprised entirely of that type of person. It isn't that these types of people are 'bad' (I suppose they can be unfit for certain roles), its that they or whoever is in charge are either incapable of or chooses not to create meaningful characters and stories, which are the backbone of any decent cinema.

This isn't introvert shaming just because its targeted towards shut-ins. Introverts are human, and humans require interaction; introverts just need breaks. These people eschew ALL interaction, and no one is ever going to make a decent anime if that is your target audience. And yes, this is coming from an introvert who enjoys anime but can't stand moe or a reliance on fanservice. Those kinds of characters may as well be aliens for how relate-able they are.

 

[acosn]

Seriously, Introvert shaming... I don't Respect Miyazaki anymore, I just can't. It's something that people like to do but really, whether your extroverted or Introverted is independent of talent. It could be a stagnation of Talent, that happens to pretty much any industry but really it sounds like he's blaming Introverts and that's stupid. I'm sorry I know people like to think that Introverts are losers that can't do anything but it's BS and there's plenty of Introverts that have made great things. Some people do great when they can think alone.

Honesty if anything's wrong, it's the cowardice from the top, I've seen anime from all the eras and really I can tell it's going for the lowest common denominator and making easy stuff that the fans would buy anyways, not for the introverted people in the industry. They only want the low hanging fruit. I've seen it in a lot of things, especially science fiction and fantasy novels. They're a good gauge as you can often see Authors that were once great or at least good start to churn out drek that only their fans would even bother with. It's the same person and they didn't all of a sudden become Otakus, they got lazy and went for the easy money.

Seriously, how can gamers not see that, it's not introverted game makers ruining our industry but the suits at the top that only want the easy money and don't want the people making games to challenge themselves. It's far better criticism than to name call people in the industry and shame them for being introverted.

Get off tumblr and get outside for a change. There's a difference between shut ins, introverts and the otaku. All three terms are mutually exclusive. A shut in isn't necessarily an introvert, let alone an otaku, nor an otaku an introvert and so on.


Aside from the fact that Miyazaki is on the record for eccentric commentary- he doesn't like smart phones and tablets because their usage resembles masturbation in his mind, you might understand what he means, you might not- he has the perspective of an old timer who's had the capability and at some level simple luck to hold his own in the industry. It isn't hard to see why he might say that the otaku portion of the market is a toxic influence on the industry. Because these days it isn't unusual for people to hear, "anime" and immediately assume you either mean cartoons targeted at children and younger teens (Pokemon, Naruto, One Piece, Bleach) or hentai. The industry today is one that relies heavily on the otaku "vote" because that's what sustains a great deal of the seasonal market. Miyazaki might be able to create a "risk" driven anime like, "The Wind Rises" but how many of his peers are unable to because they lack name and studio force?



Its also important to remember that Miyazaki doesn't particularly play nice with the Otaku audience. His anti-war sentiments have repeatedly drawn flack.



This ain't a shame tactic. He's simply stating that the market presence the otaku community presents is toxic to the anime industry, and I can completely understand where he's coming from. Its hard for the industry to be taken seriously on the international stage when for every FLCL, Cowboy Bebop, Kill la Kill, NGE, Sword of the Stranger, or FMA, there's another Infinite Stratos, Sora no oto, Maken Ki type anime which is a by-the-numbers otaku fling.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

Get in line Miyazaki, Hideki Anno has been shitting on the Otaku subculture through Evangelion for years now.

And yet Gainax makes a living through pandering to that very subculture. At least Miyazaki sticks to his guns.

Seriously, Introvert shaming... I don't Respect Miyazaki anymore, I just can't. It's something that people like to do but really, whether your extroverted or Introverted is independent of talent. It could be a stagnation of Talent, that happens to pretty much any industry but really it sounds like he's blaming Introverts and that's stupid. I'm sorry I know people like to think that Introverts are losers that can't do anything but it's BS and there's plenty of Introverts that have made great things. Some people do great when they can think alone.

I'm sorry to say it, but the otaku that Miyazaki refers to are a disgusting lot. The otaku of Japan are those that sit inside their houses, harbouring fantasies of voice actresses and the characters they voice and to keep their fragile fantasies intact these actresses must never, ever speak of their romantic lives in public or interviews, better yet, they must pretend that there are no men in their lives so the otaku can maintain the fragile fantasy that they might some day woo them. The otaku can and have ruined the careers of voice actresses and idol group musicians because they dared to have a love life, or *gasp* acknowledge as much in an interview or tweet about it, by simply mass boycotting whatever productions they are in leaving people with little choice but to not contract them again. These are the scum that want nothing but their shows with vapid sexualised moeblobs. Miyazaki is absolutely correct when he says that the otaku is an entity the industry, both on the insider and consumer end, can do without. Being introverted or extroverted has absolutely nothing to do with this. Otaku are perfectly willing to ruin people's lives for their shallow, vain fantasies. Huh, bit like Tumblr I guess. Either way, it's a terrible grip that they have over the Japanese pop entertainment industry and that needs to go away, the sooner the better.

 

[JSoup]

He makes a good point. If you don't know how people in real life work, how are you going to make the people in your creation believable and relatable?

On another note, I think I remember hearing that Miyazaki has a son who's going to follow in his footsteps. Is this true?

It's true, and he has made one movie that wasn't well received. Check out Tales from Earthsea [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_from_Earthsea_%28film%29].

He also directed From Up on Poppy Hill [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_Up_on_Poppy_Hill], which was received more favorably.