Owyn_Merrilin said:I'm aware of the novel origins, and I think SAO did a great job considering it crammed two novels into 30-ish episodes, I only brought it up because of this exchange from further upthread:volcanblade said:I would like to politely point out that SAO was a Light Novel nearly 4 years before it became an anime, and was designed for that form, so the anime had to cut large amounts of context and important details which had made it come alive much much more as a novel. In short, the anime had to compress large amounts of detail and it suffered in the human department. I highly recommend the novels, as they give a much more in depth, human depiction of everything and elaborated on the second arc much more.Owyn_Merrilin said:Eh, it's mainstream in the west[footnote]And I'm surprised to hear it's not in Japan, it's a fairly standard action show aside from that sub-plot in the second half of the show[/footnote], and /most/ anime makes its profits from otaku DVD sales. That's why Bandai pulled out of the US market, they were unwilling to charge rates for DVDs that are reasonable in the US, they expected American nerds to pay the exorbitant rates that Japanese otaku are willing to.Alterego-X said:Oh, I'm sure they are the majority. I just doubt that there was ever a time when they WEREN'T the majority.Owyn_Merrilin said:They're a whole stable of "cute girl" archetypes that are used instead of characters now, and they're all varying flavors of moe. Not that all shows do this, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was the majority now.
Again, take a look at my previously linked yearly chart from the era of FLCL and Samurai Shamploo. Moe everywhere.
SAO is not a mainstream anime, it had a midnight airing on Tokyo MX, in-betwen To-Love-Ru and Little Busters, and made it's profits from otaku DVD sales.Owyn_Merrilin said:I don't know, the example he used was SAO. That's a fairly normal action anime that had an incest sublot out of the blue in the second arc, totally creepified what had been a great series up to that point. It used to be that the incest stuff in anime stayed in the darker corners of the hentai section, now its in mainstream shows.
Edit: Also moe is a fairly new thing in the last 10 or 15 years. If you watch anime from anywhere before the mid 2000's, it's totally different, especially stuff from the 70's through the 90's.
More on topic, he has some points, but it is also important to note that people don't always want characters that are human in those ways. I love Princess Mononoke, but his type of characters would have destroyed other shows I like. We need a mix, not one or the other.
Basically I was pointing out the irony of saying incest in anime is still relegated to porn stuff like it used to be when SAO has it as a major subplot.Alterego-X said:You don't compare modern incest anime to Samurai Shamploo, you compare it to Onegai Twins, which was released one year before Samurai Shamploo.ShadowRatchet92 said:You look at Samurai Shamploo, FLCL, Trigun, Fullmetal Alchemist, these where shows that were clearly made because the artists wanted to make something like nothing else. You even look at DBZ and how Akira Toriyama was inspired by Walt Disney's 101 Dalmatians, You can tell that he made it because he wanted to. Now, look at the anime today, the Fairy Tail, Sword Art Online, and the rise of Incest animes, these didn't have that same creative spirit, but feel more like a check list of what an anime should have, almost like if it was focus tested.
Sword Art Online isn't the new FLCL, it's the new Tales of Eternia. THIS [http://chartfag.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/2001-export.jpg] is how anime in general looked like in the Good Old Days.
There are plenty of modern series with quirky narratives, or visuals, or both, if you are looking for them and not for selective examples to make your point.
Ah my bad I missed that part. That makes perfect sense then. And sorry if that came out rude, I really didn't mean for it to.
Anyway I still think he is being a bit too sweeping with his comment, though it makes a good point for some things.