Heavy Rain Dev: "Let's Stop Making Games For Kids"

Keane Ng

New member
Sep 11, 2008
5,892
0
0
Heavy Rain Dev: "Let's Stop Making Games For Kids"



Games are "light years away" from the level of emotional storytelling found in films and other media, Quantic Dream's David Cage thinks, and that's because developers are too scared to try something different.

Quantic Dream boss David Cage hates children. Well, he doesn't actually hate children. (Probably.) He just thinks developers should be making fewer games for them, and more for adults. "I mean, let's stop making games for kids and teenagers," he told Joystiq [http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/27/heavy-rain-interview-page-2/] in an interview. "Let's ask ourselves the real questions."

Cage, who helmed the development of Indigo Prophecy and the upcoming Heavy Rain, thinks that games are "light years away" from the level of storytelling power that other mediums possess. "We are just telling stories about little boys shooting and jumping," he said. "When will we be able to tell real stories with real characters and real emotions?"

The problem as Cage perceives it is a lack of willingness to push the boundaries of the medium. The reason games are so far behind in the storytelling department is "because we don't dare stop doing what we have been doing for 15 years...let's change some of the traditional game conventions that we have had for 15 years that we take for granted, like, you cannot make a game if there is no ramping, if there is no game over, if you don't progress in difficulty, etc."

The idea of a difficulty curve in games is counterintuitive to the act of experiencing a story in a game, Cage thinks. "You want to play a game that is interesting and that is an emotional journey. It is the story," Cage explained. "It is what you feel playing. It is not that it gets more and more difficult until to the point where you just leave the controller and say I don't want to play that anymore."

Can Cage back up big statements like these with Heavy Rain? I hope so, but we won't be able to find out until next year, since all signs point to the game being delayed [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/91942-Heavy-Rain-Delayed-to-2010].








Permalink
 

Frank_Sinatra_

Digs Giant Robots
Dec 30, 2008
2,306
0
0
Yes I agree lets stop making so many bloody games for kids. It would be nice to see a game that tells real stories, with real characters.
However it seems I'm daydreaming again and games will continue to be piles of stupid with the occasional good one here or there.

Edit: Don't get me wrong I love a stupid fun game here and there but let's bring in some quality people.
 

Yoshi_egg80

New member
Apr 1, 2009
196
0
0
Can't agree more I of course I'd want a senseless killing spree game now and then but I want my stories!
 

bushwhacker2k

New member
Jan 27, 2009
1,587
0
0
I would LOVE if they seperated the games for kids and adults, we get so much overdone crap that everyone loves because they are too young to have seen the last overdone version of it and crap becomes POPULAR!

I think games aren't as far away from good storytelling as people may think, it's just that games that DO tell good stories haven't been made yet.

Also, Indigo Prophecy ruled.
 

level250geek

New member
Jan 8, 2009
184
0
0
I've said it before, I'll say it a hundred times:

If I want story, I'll read a book or watch a movie. I play games for game play mechanics; to engage in a social activity, or to stimulate the puzzle-solving parts of my brain. Story, characters, emotion: the potential is there and should be explored, but it should be secondary. Mechanics come first.
 

Avida

New member
Oct 17, 2008
1,030
0
0
I'm very tempted to link to that GameOverthinker (moviebob) video, stopping making games for kids altogether is a very, very bad thing.
 

Arrers

New member
Mar 4, 2009
759
0
0
He's right, games should have better stories, but the problem is not so much that their aimed at kids but that most developer think maturity = violence.

His game still looks like a terrifying journey into the uncanny valley to me tough.
 

Ancientgamer

New member
Jan 16, 2009
1,346
0
0
Maybe if "mature" and adult rating were separate but equal to distinguish.


level250geek said:
I've said it before, I'll say it a hundred times:

If I want story, I'll read a book or watch a movie. I play games for game play mechanics; to engage in a social activity, or to stimulate the puzzle-solving parts of my brain. Story, characters, emotion: the potential is there and should be explored, but it should be secondary. Mechanics come first.
Why? What's the harm in exploring the boundries? If interactive media became better at storytelling and conducting emotion than books or film, could you honestly say it should be limited to generally asinine logic puzzles? All game mechanics are, are a set of rules and a goal. Whether the puzzle ends up being how best to point and click on the bad guy, or how to figure out a riddle, I don't see the point of limiting the vast power of an interactive world to a set of remarkably easy puzzles*. (by puzzles, I mean any objective set by the game that you must achieve within the games rules.)
 

sms_117b

Keeper of Brannigan's Law
Oct 4, 2007
2,880
0
0
I look forward to this companies next release, hopefully they will act on this.
 

Terazeal

New member
Sep 10, 2008
31
0
0
Immature games are just immature games. They're not "games for kids" because kids are capable of enjoying games of any maturity, just as adults are. Mr. Cage is using a dumb stereotype that's unnecessary for telling his point, however correct that point is.
 

Echolocating

New member
Jul 13, 2006
617
0
0
It's not so much a matter of staying true to what has been done before, it's that developers subconsciously know that it takes much more skill to impress an adult than it does a child. A lot of developers are incapable of making something that appeals to adults. This will change as game design education matures, but right now developers are holding on to adolescent power fantasies because it's easy shit to churn out.
 

Avaholic03

New member
May 11, 2009
1,520
0
0
Adults will play games that kids can enjoy as well. A lot of adults play the games to satisfy that inner child anyways. But making games strictly for adults fails on two fronts. First, you don't hook the kids young. Most of us were introduced to gaming at a young age. If developers ignore that demographic, this will be the last generation of gamers and the entire industry will suffer. Secondly, you go out of your way to narrow your target market. Like I said, adults will play kid games (they have for years), so if you make those type of all-age games, you have the biggest target market and you'll sell more. No artist in their right mind would intentionally limit their audience, that's just stupid.
 

Susano

New member
Dec 25, 2008
436
0
0
Avida said:
I'm very tempted to link to that GameOverthinker (moviebob) video, stopping making games for kids altogether is a very, very bad thing.
Exactly
To sum up the video for the people who didn't see it, He highlighted the downfall of the comic industry and said that it was because they stopped making comics for kids, therefore stopped attracting a new audience. This led to the comic makers not getting any more money so there was no money to make comics.
 

Geo Da Sponge

New member
May 14, 2008
2,611
0
0
Games don't have to be aimed away from kids and teenagers specifically to have a good story. The idea of a good story and strong emotions and making a game accessible to all age groups are not mutually exclusive; generally speaking, the most popular films for children are the ones which still have strong stories and can then stand up to speculation in the future, films you can still appreciate when you're older.

People talk about games being dumbed down, but what was the last 'intelligent' game you played? Portal? Shadow of the Collusus? Oh yes, because they were massive failures. As far as I can tell, from a position on the sidelines, is that game developers, or rather producers, assume that intelligent games will fail.

On the other hand, I think gaming won't be accepted as regular art until we have the backing of theself assured pretentious types who can ramble on about mis-en-scene in films and use terms like 'connotations' and 'symbolism' whether they're appropiate or not. However, the games which would convivne the world of gaming as an art form can't be released when there's no one like this to appreciate it.
Or at least, act smug while they pretend to appreciate it.


And I'm quite aware of how much of a bell-end voicing an over-developed and unfounded opinion like this makes me sound.
 

A random person

New member
Apr 20, 2009
4,732
0
0
I need to say that I quite like some traditional narrative conventions of video games. I enjoy going on a quest to stop evil by going to various locales and fighting various enemies. Chrono Trigger, for example, is a game of going to several places and fighting bosses that lurk in dungeons, but it's done very well, and the story is great. Sometimes these conventions are good in a narrative. Pushing the envelope is always good, though.

As for difficulty curves, hell yes they should exist, they help add to the feeling of rising danger and climax. They also help, if done decently, do something that is very important to games: fun.

Oh, and nothing wrong with good kid games. I like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, some of the more colorful RPG's (like Chrono Trigger), and there are others. Just because a game is dark and "mature" doesn't mean it's good. In fact, things that try to be "mature" that don't do it organically out of the plot, characters, and tone usually make themselves look very stupid, as the gameoverthinker points out with Watchmen imitators.
 

Sewblon

New member
Nov 5, 2008
3,107
0
0
I agree with him except, the problem is not that games for kids exist. The problems are, 1. developers assume that the player is always playing for the mechanics, which is not always true 2. They assume that maturity is explicit themes, it is not.
 

calelogan

New member
Jun 15, 2008
221
0
0
level250geek said:
I've said it before, I'll say it a hundred times:

If I want story, I'll read a book or watch a movie. I play games for game play mechanics; to engage in a social activity, or to stimulate the puzzle-solving parts of my brain. Story, characters, emotion: the potential is there and should be explored, but it should be secondary. Mechanics come first.
Why not integrate mechanics and storytelling? Better yet, why not explore the mechanics as a form of storytelling? I agree with Jean-Paul on this issue: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23312

As for Cage's statements, I agree with them as well. Games need to be seen as a medium that represents cultural and artistic expression. It doesn't need to abandon its other ramifications, but if we don't push our boundaries and aim to deliver mature (non-porn) adult content, the "layman society" will never recognize our potential...and will take longer to lay off the prejudice.