Heavy Rain Dev: "Let's Stop Making Games For Kids"
- Thread starter Keane Ng
- Start date
What games can do, that books and even movies can't do? Interaction. Go play Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway. That's way better than any history book as a kid you'll ever read, and goes into more immersion than a movie like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers. Go play SWAT 4, and you can go through what most SWAT police have to, without having to watch Cops or other tv shows that are less immersive. So this shows that Games can work as great educational pieces, too.
Games like Darkness, Brothers in Arms, Indigo Prophecy, Far Cry 2, and other great mature games have shown how far storytelling in games can go, while trumping other mediums.
Games like Darkness, Brothers in Arms, Indigo Prophecy, Far Cry 2, and other great mature games have shown how far storytelling in games can go, while trumping other mediums.
If you think Indigo Prophecy was all about QTEs, you clearly didn't play the game and only heard about it. Only the action scenes go into QTE. What about the adventure game mundane shit like making Tyler drink coffee, and other stupid but grounding activities? Keeping your character's psyche at a sane level? Making different dialogue choices, leading to branching paths?oliveira8 said:
Seconded. Human emotions are essential for a good story, but you can't replace good old fashioned interesting plot and ideas. I stated in my above post that game conventions can make for a good plot and straining for "maturity" is stupid. Lewis Carrol agrees with me on the latter assertion, though I can't find the exact quote at this time.RAKtheUndead said:
Why does everyone assume that making one mature game will kill the development of games for kids? People write books for adults, and they still write books for kids; people make movies for adults, and still make movies for kids. As long as there's a market for it, simpler forms of entertainment will be available for kids. The fact that developers want to make games with mature emotional complexes can only be a good thing, giving people who want to enjoy games with plot that option.
I very much agree with this man, but at the same time, I don´t. I don´t think we should stop making immature games altogether, but we should we should move away from just making games about shooting people with guns which are clearly compensating for something, and start making more mature games as well.
And with mature I do not mean games with more titties than your average Playboy, but rather games with good dialogue, good plot and characters with depth.
And with mature I do not mean games with more titties than your average Playboy, but rather games with good dialogue, good plot and characters with depth.
I think gaming has the most potential out of any media to give a great story telling experience because of its interactive nature. Problem is, very few games have realised this potential as of yet.
I disagree with the learning curve interefering with the story though; I think the two can be seamlessly sown together with relative ease.
I disagree with the learning curve interefering with the story though; I think the two can be seamlessly sown together with relative ease.
Nuh uh! Kids are stupid pants! They don't understand sex, or violence, or anything like that! Because old folks of modern day used to be naive 60-80 years ago! So obviously kids now must be the same regardless of changes in technology and society in general!Terazeal said:
JEEPERS MR WILSON!
Um...what the hell games has he been playing, and what movies has he been watching? Games reached movie-level storytelling around the time Final Fantasy 6 came out. A lot of games I've played have gone far beyond most movies. Hell, the story of Devil May Cry 3 managed to beat almost everything I've seen in the past decade.
And frankly, I don't really see the need for the kid/adult games spectrum to shift. Where is it even at, anyway? Both sides buy games, both have games tailored for them, and if the story of a given game is lacking, it's usually because the writing sucks, not because it was aiming for the opposite demographic.
And frankly, I don't really see the need for the kid/adult games spectrum to shift. Where is it even at, anyway? Both sides buy games, both have games tailored for them, and if the story of a given game is lacking, it's usually because the writing sucks, not because it was aiming for the opposite demographic.
Because artists are only concerned about having as big of an audience as possible. Not about expressing something or making a certain statement...Avaholic03 said:
Let's stop making games for kids, and take away a strong demographic that sells games. The same demographic that grows up playing those games, slowly gaining interest in deeper storyline games. May as well stop making movies for kids, nothing that would get rated G or PG with nothing but action or family comedy. Speaking as someone who grew up playing games from the Atari 2600 days, this guy is a flaming moron. He probably thinks that current BMW commercial is awesome and the art that's made is spectacular. Granted I like the paintstyle on the car, what's put on the giant canvas and that sketchbook is GARBAGE.
I have my doubts that someone can make a game with an actual gripping story, while also maintaining the fun quotient of the game. If this guy can make a game with a lot of the same drama as The Pursuit of Happyness, and keep it fun, therefore guaranteeing sales, I will change my mind. But frankly, this guy needs to change his prescriptions and stop trying to tell the whole industry what to do. Do it yourself, that's fine, and when you go in the hole, oh well. But don't try to change a policy that sells games for everyone.
Let's put it in a different perspective. To have a level of storytelling that David Cage wants, there has to be limits on the choices a player makes to the end. Anybody plotting the story will not want a drastic difference possible to where their endstory isn't told. And even with adult gamers, that is a suicidal choice with the current demand for sandbox games and open-ended gamestories. One way this could work, is by being able to not worry about the ending, and just being able to really set up a good plotline in the early part where the player connects with the characters, as they would in a book or movie. But to keep the gameplay interesting, the writer has to be able to let go of the playable character, set them free to make choices, based on how the player perceives the character. These days I am just not so sure that many writers can let go of their character that way. It's easier when you don't develop a strong story around them.
Maybe down the road something can be discovered to make this work, but to just try to change everything for that, it's still idiotic. David Cage is welcome to work down this path, and see if it works, but don't assume that's the only way to make games work. Silly as it is, I will still play my Super Mario 64 or even Adventure.
I have my doubts that someone can make a game with an actual gripping story, while also maintaining the fun quotient of the game. If this guy can make a game with a lot of the same drama as The Pursuit of Happyness, and keep it fun, therefore guaranteeing sales, I will change my mind. But frankly, this guy needs to change his prescriptions and stop trying to tell the whole industry what to do. Do it yourself, that's fine, and when you go in the hole, oh well. But don't try to change a policy that sells games for everyone.
Let's put it in a different perspective. To have a level of storytelling that David Cage wants, there has to be limits on the choices a player makes to the end. Anybody plotting the story will not want a drastic difference possible to where their endstory isn't told. And even with adult gamers, that is a suicidal choice with the current demand for sandbox games and open-ended gamestories. One way this could work, is by being able to not worry about the ending, and just being able to really set up a good plotline in the early part where the player connects with the characters, as they would in a book or movie. But to keep the gameplay interesting, the writer has to be able to let go of the playable character, set them free to make choices, based on how the player perceives the character. These days I am just not so sure that many writers can let go of their character that way. It's easier when you don't develop a strong story around them.
Maybe down the road something can be discovered to make this work, but to just try to change everything for that, it's still idiotic. David Cage is welcome to work down this path, and see if it works, but don't assume that's the only way to make games work. Silly as it is, I will still play my Super Mario 64 or even Adventure.
