Heavy Rain Dev Says Pre-Owned Sales Cost it Millions

[JonnWood]

Instead of being the one who has to swallow expensive dlcs, subscriptions and project ten dollars.

I find it odd how many people phrase this sort of thing as an imperative.

No one has a right to a extra content. If the developer decides to give it to you, yay! But if they don't? Too bad.

I remember the whole Portal 2 DLC thing, and people were complaining that Valve was "forcing us" to buy 80 bucks worth of hats. Gabe Newell is not standing to my right with a gun to my head, demanding I buy hats for robots.

I think this sort of thing says more about gamer entitlement than anything else.

 

[JonnWood]

Seeing how many big-name Nintendo first-party titles are on the shelves marked "pre-owned" in Gamestops and similar video game resellers I've seen, the company must be hemorrhaging money...oh, wait, no, even a cursory glance at historical data (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/historical_data/index.html) shows that the company is still turning up a profit. Sorry Heavy Rain, I gave you a try, I honestly did, but I could only really justify one go through. From the sounds of it, so did half of your initial market, so at least I can take solace in the fact that I am not the only one.

I like how you think two examples are representative.

 

[JonnWood]

Why do people vilify the game re-sellers? If I remember, GameStop sells new games too. People don't use re-sellers as toilets for their video games... it's an entire exchange.

Because Gamestop trades used games at prices that are, let's say..."non-market determined". You can trade in a game for $20 credit, yet it's sold at nearly full price.

Also;
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26105049
http://consumerist.com/2011/08/gamestop-stores-ordered-to-open-deus-ex-human-boxes-and-remove-free-game-coupon.html
and suchlike. Employees are instructed to aggressively hawk various extras.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Okay, now never let that guy speak again, he is bad for PR.

Seriously, even if the guy believes that someone needs to gag him since this helping the company look good.

 

[NickCaligo42]

Therefore, half the people who bought the game new decided to trade it in for another game.

Your're right there's a problem there. Make a fucking game good enough that half the people who buy it don't want to sell it fucking on. Don't go bitching about what certain people 'owe' you when you quite clearly couldn't make a game that kept people's attention!

Amen to that, brother. Heavy Rain was a learning experience, full of some decent ideas at the micro-level, but none of them build up to anything, the plot's a mess, there's too many characters and not enough focus, and it moves at the rate of a snail. It doesn't make good entertainment even if you view it as a movie. Blagh.

 

[razer17]

A

Your're right there's a problem there. Make a fucking game good enough that half the people who buy it don't want to sell it fucking on. Don't go bitching about what certain people 'owe' you when you quite clearly couldn't make a game that kept people's attention!

But... Some people just don't like to play games multiple times. I know that I trade in pretty much every game once I've completed it once, and then, if I want to play it again later, I pick it up second hand for bargain prices. Trading in stuff isn't like charity, it gets you money to put towards a different game that you want to play. If I did't trade in m games once I was done with them I'd constantly run out of games to play, because I just don't have the money.

OT: Anyway, maybe the publishers should make their own used games market, of sorts. For instance, they could offer that you send them one of their games, and they give you a coupon that goes towards one of their games. That way, they get another sale, because you use the coupon on their games, and it takes the copy of the game out of circulation, because you send it to them. They can then either sell it on as a second hand copy, or destroy it.

And, if retail stores want to avoid publisher going to download only games sooner rather than later, it's probably in their best interest that they see some monetary kick backs from used gaming.

 

[camazotz]

First, I like that if you buy used at Gamestop, you can still return the game if it doesn't work, you don't like it, or it took 5 hours to finish. Hell, I really dislike used copies of games (don't ask, its just "a thing") but I will still buy a clean used copy of a game I am not certain I'm going to enjoy simply on the grounds that I can return it if it turns out I don't like the game.

Second, so does the Heavy Rain Dev count my wife's play through of my copy on her own console as part of the filthy, grubby, used market? I mean, if he hates the used market, he must really hate it when entire households play the same game...that's, what $60-180 or more lost in every gamer household that shares.

Third, and lastly, does this mean he'd like to grade "legitimate" users according to the amount they pay? Premium users who buy day one for $60 should get special treatment, then "one year later" users for the greatest hits lineup version for $30 should get second-tier treatment, since they obviously didn't care enough about the developer to cough up a full $60 on release day?

Seriously.....talk about privileged thinking.

 

[Sylveria]

Tough shit. I dont see car manufacturers whining that half their cars get bought pre-owned...

That comparison doesn't work. Used cars and used games are not the same, and neither are the industries behind them.

How are they different? Seriously.

New car model comes out, a certain number of people buy it new. Those people then later sell the car and buy a different car. Other people buy the old car used.

New game comes out. A certain number of people buy it new. Those people then later sell the game and buy a different game. Other people buy the old game used.

Seems like basically the exact same cycle to me.

If feel I'm mistaken in my assessment, I welcome your opinion.

 

[quantumsoul]

Developers should focus more on re-playability. Maybe if the murderer wasn't the same one every time, I'd be more into playing the game multiple times.

This will likely lead to a bigger push toward bigger downloadable games for consoles. Instead of trying to give players reasons to play a game more.

 

[Sylveria]

-Developers usually decide to ignore their old games to favor new copies. So if you wanna find a brand new copy of, let's say, Silent Hill 2 or MvC2, good luck with that! I have only been able to find them used and they're waaaaay cheaper than what people are asking for a brand new copy of it (Silent Hill 2 brand new for a 100 bucks?! No, thanks. I'm okay with my slightly damaged box and my okay condition game. As long as it plays, I could care less if it comes with a free golden egg).

This is a major, major thing. I obviously don't have the numbers to confirm it, but if developers started on-demand printing of old games, case, manual, the whole shebang, for even half of what Ebay sells them for used and in a format that the new consoles can play, they'd be making up their used game losses and then some.

They'd have a massive library of stuff with no development cost, other than format conversion, that new players and collectors would happily pay for. I've spent more in the past couple years getting PS1 and PS2 games in the appropriate condition than I've spent on new games for current gen consoles by a long shot. Maybe I'm a rare case but I'd happily pay $20-40 for a brand new copy of an old game that I know is worth owning and keeping. Could it end up on the used circuit? Maybe, but if it's on-demand the number of copies in circulation is limited.

 

[Bonecrusher]

This just in: libraries and second-hand bookshops pose greatest threat to printing industry.

This just in, books are really REALLY cheap to make and most second-hand bookshops exist to support charities anyway.

As for libraries, they're basically rental shops for books. Really, this is the direction video game sales should have gone down all along, where we can all play loads of games on the cheap and the creators still get paid for it.

actually games are also cheap to make.
you just program the codes, thats all.

(side note, i know there are many costs to make a game, but so do books. if you skip the costs and similar things in books, so I will skip the costs in games)

 

[Pandabearparade]

No one has a right to a extra content. If the developer decides to give it to you, yay! But if they don't? Too bad.

The problem with this statement is that project 10 dollar isn't 'extra content', it's content that is cut at launch and then only given to new buyers.

Though I don't particularly mind, really. Better than charging extra for multiplayer.

 

[Something Amyss]

Excellent to see a developer actually attach some numbers to this obvious yet debated issue.

'Course, numbers without context are meaningless.

It's also really annoying to see used game sales counted as lost revenue at this point. Newsflash, game companies: You are not entitled to that money.

I'm guessing from the 50 gazillion copies I saw at my local Gamestop, this was an issue of people thinking the game was lame or not worth multiple plays.

 

[Aurora Firestorm]

Wow. I'm really surprised that everyone here is hating on Heavy Rain. It was only a revolutionary game that did something experimental and pushed the gaming industry in a direction that expanded how we see games.

Y'know. But yeah.

I think it's best if GameStop, etc. pay a percentage of used game sales to the people who made the games. Problem solved.

 

[darkcommanderq]

Well thats what you get when you make an interactive movie with no re-playability. Welcome to the movie business.

 

[jacobythehedgehog]

I bought this game used, Guess I'm a criminal because I paid money for a used game that I only played through once anyway

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I think it's best if GameStop, etc. pay a percentage of used game sales to the people who made the games. Problem solved.

Why? They didn't do any additional work?

And even if we did apply droit de suite, that's only 2-4%. Giving back $1-2 on a used game sale won't do anything for the publishers. Even with a million used sales at $55 or so, that's only $1 Million. Pocket change.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I don't get why there even is a need for there to be a gamestop. If the publishers are losing so much money for every single game, surely they could put some of what they lose to gamestop into making their own distribution systems so they'd get all the money from sales and used sales.


There could be a publisher coalition where they all enter in an agreement that every sale of every game would pay the respective fully publisher and then they all would participate in the upkeep of the system. There's really no need for there to be a gamestop.

 

[DjinnFor]

I wouldn't have bought Heavy Rain for $60 if I knew I wouldn't be able to resell it for a $30 credit to a local games shop. I'd have waited till it dropped in price to about $30, like I usually did before I found a place willing to pay so much for used games.

The same is probably true for most people who regularly sell their games used, even unknowingly. If you're on any kind of budget you would obviously buy less video games if they cost more money. For every hardcore gamer who buys brand-spanking new on the first day no matter what it costs, there's one-the-ropes dad who won't even bother to pick up a $60 game for his kid who's only going to play it for three weeks if he can't get a good deal selling it used.

Any developer who thinks the games market suffers because of resale is just plain retarded. You get many more people playing your game for roughly the same amount of income, how is that not awesome? Larger playerbase means more hype for your game, that's how you build a brand as a solid developer.

 

[Vern]

The problem exists with the games. I'm happy to buy a game at $60 that will last me 30 hours or more, I feel like I've gotten my moneys worth. I'm ecstatic to buy a game like Fallout 3 or Saints Row 2 that will last me 90 hours plus. I've put hundreds of hours into games like Doom 2, Quake, Starcraft, GoldenEye, Blood, Deus Ex, Thief, Morrowind, Half-Life. The games now have no replay value, and most new games barely contain enough content for one 10 hour playthrough.

If I don't feel I'm going to get my money's worth from buying a game brand new, you're damn skippy I'll buy it used or get it on sale. Don't blame people for not wanting to pay top dollar for a 8 hour cinematic experience, they can get the same experience watching Come and See or Apocalypse Now for a third of the price. Make the game worth paying $60 for. And an eight hour interactive movie just doesn't seem to justify the price.