Heavy Rain Dev Says Pre-Owned Sales Cost it Millions

[grammarye]

Has nobody noticed that the software industry at large has managed this one already? The recent Autodesk case was won where they essentially argued that the license agreement for their software stated no resale allowed. Thus, no used sales of Autodesk software. Sure, we're talking products that retail in some cases thousands of dollars, but still. You are simply not allowed to resell that software.

I don't agree with it - just saying, there are already legal precedents. That game companies aren't using the same is either lack of knowledge, or they're afraid to annoy the people actually making money from resales (the game retailers who sell their new games as well...)

 

[Olrod]

Maybe they should ask themselves why so many people felt the need to sell on their copy of the game.

Maybe next time they could try making a game that people want to keep.

 

[Michael Hirst]

The problem Quantic Dream is that you made a game which was essentially a movie with QTE's which always leads to the same result regarding who the killer was. This left the "game" with little replay value because if people usually want to rewatch a film they will only spend 2 hours doing so while Heavy Rain takes significantly longer.

On the other hand I do understand the arguement its just coming from the people who made Heavy Rain it's a bit stupid. Silly buggers think they're artsy and moving the medium forward when all they really did was take back several steps by making it too much like a film and no respecting their own medium. GAMES ARE DEFINED BY GAMEPLAY FIRST.

P.S I bought the game second hand because I sure as hell wasn't going to pay more than £10 for a one time only thriller, if you guys don't like it then f**k you because it's still completely legal.

 

[isnosche]

I buy new games and i buy used games.

some new games i buy at 50 Euros, some at 20-30 and some at 12-15 ...
If i dont buy your game at 50 or 30 euro's it means i was

NEVER, EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER
EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER
EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER

going to pay full retail price for it....

if you dont sell it later at 15 euros and i have to buy it second hand ...
Then thats YOUR fault ....

Anything i buy second hand is not worth full retail price or something "filler".

If you put something NEW at 15 euros and i like it i'll prolly buy The 2 nd game
or another game you make at 50 or 30 Euro's...

SO who's the dumb one.

P.S. making me pay 10 buck for something i bought second hand you already sold to someone
is making me wish i met you in a dark alley. Dont be one of the publishers i dont buy
from anymore

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

We buy the game. We own it and thus can sell it. Thats why i hate DLC that just unlocks stuff on the disc instead of download brand new stuff. Film companies, music companies, car companies dont complain about second hand sales. Games makers are just bitching out of greed. Even when i was a kid and owned a C64 and a Spectrum me and my friends would buy different games and swap them with each other so we ended up playing 6 new games for the price of one.

Thing is games are just momentary. You play them, complete them, then you either give them away or sell them if you can. Why would you keep something you have completed? Alot of games you can complete once and then you lose interest in them. Films and dvds you can watch and listen to again and again if you enjoy them. Games, not so much.

Either they need to make their games cheaper, or make a better deal to gain more profit from each sale.

 

[Rossmallo]

Alright, a little bit of mathematics here:

3 million people played the game.

Only 2 million played it new.

Therefore, 1 million played it used.

Therefore around 1 million people would likely have traded it in.

Therefore, half the people who bought the game new decided to trade it in for another game.

Your're right there's a problem there. Make a fucking game good enough that half the people who buy it don't want to sell it fucking on. Don't go bitching about what certain people 'owe' you when you quite clearly couldn't make a game that kept people's attention!

I was pretty much going to say this verbatim. If your game's not great, don't ***** when people don't buy it new!

 

[Smithburg]

Excellent to see a developer actually attach some numbers to this obvious yet debated issue. It really is something that needs to be addressed on a much deeper level, and it will likely include some cooperation on both the dev/pub side and the retail side.

Of course, I think a lot of what Heavy Rain in particularly experienced is because of the type of game it was. When you create a completely cinematic game with little depth or reason to replay, you're automatically going to be at the mercy of the predatory used market.

Little depth of reason to replay?
Was I the only one who actually played it over and over again because of all the endings/trophies?

That isn't actually a good argument, I got every single trophy and ending in that game, and I did it on the day I bought it. It barely took any effort and I know quite a few people who did the same.

Although I do think used retailers should give some percentage to the game companies

 

[Saika Renegade]

JohnWood, I like how you must not have read any of the PDF data at all. There's fiscal data clear back to 1981, aka a nice set of data points from which to draw inferences. Even allowing Gamestop to claim history back to being Babbage's in 1984, Nintendo, being the horse in the race with the longest mainstream recognition, has certainly not suffered traumatically for lack of profits.

Gamestop is far from sitting on a backlog of good karma, but it and its ilk are not the primary-sale ending industry this dev claims they are.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

It's not a threat dammit. That money was never yours. It belongs to the game's owner, not the IP owner. When I buy a book, DVD, item of clothing, album or painting, it belongs to ME, not to you and I can sell it if I choose. So shut up Quantic.

If you would like to sell more copies new, drop the price at retail, make better games and you will. And don't try that pre-order DLC bu*****t.

 

[dickywebster]

Well if they ban second hand games, that means for any major title that comes out, i probably wont be able to get it for under £30 and wont even be able to trade in games towards it
Now ok thats fair enough if its say once every couple of months, i could maybe afford that, but theres no way ud be able to find a game that can be streached over at least 2 months comfortably.

I mostly buy second hand games, cause i dont have a hugh amount of money and probably get 3 times as many games as i would if they werent cheaper due to been preowned.
So ok the devs arent making much money off me, but if those second hand games go, then it would become too expensive for me 2 do a whole lot.
Heck if u could only seel games new, then how would i beable to get older games i like?

While devs might be against reselling games, it would probably do more harm than gd if they did somehow manage to get it banned, cause less games would be shifted so everyone loses.
Or they can pull the kinda crud EA have pulled before and get so much flack its not really worth it.

 

[acosn]

Most people don't want to pay a premium on a game that might not be good.

Is pitched as a movie.

And is guaranteed to have minimal replay value.

You're not convincing anyone that your game lost millions to the used game market. Not when the same years that the gaming industry is reporting record profits, and the market as a whole is the biggest it's ever been. Not when this has been going on for decades, and certainly wasn't considered a problem 20 years ago. Going after pirates has proven to be reputation damaging, and self destructive for any parties involved, so now they're looking for a new scapegoat.


Complaining about used games is like complaining about used cars. If there weren't used games, a lot of people simple would never spring for games to begin with, or at least not the ones that come with a 50-60$ price tag. And sadly, Heavy Rain just wasn't that good a game. You need to be realistic about why your game under-sold before you can even begin to address why it had a healthy post-release market.

 

[GamerKT]

How can you lose something you never had? I mean, it's like me saying that the guy who got the job instead of me cost me thousands of dollars. Money is not being taken from their bank accounts...

 

[Dimitriov]

What a whiny little snot. Books, cars, lawn mowers, furniture, movies, gardening equipment, artwork, bicycles, boats, jewelry, sporting goods, tools, and clothing: just a few of the things people buy and sell second hand.

Books and movies are particularly relevant in this example.

Seriously, are these guys in the games industry, who whine about this, retarded? Or do they just think we are?

 

[Dimitriov]

Excellent to see a developer actually attach some numbers to this obvious yet debated issue. It really is something that needs to be addressed on a much deeper level, and it will likely include some cooperation on both the dev/pub side and the retail side.

Of course, I think a lot of what Heavy Rain in particularly experienced is because of the type of game it was. When you create a completely cinematic game with little depth or reason to replay, you're automatically going to be at the mercy of the predatory used market.

Little depth of reason to replay?
Was I the only one who actually played it over and over again because of all the endings/trophies?

That isn't actually a good argument, I got every single trophy and ending in that game, and I did it on the day I bought it. It barely took any effort and I know quite a few people who did the same.

Although I do think used retailers should give some percentage to the game companies

Do you think you should mail a cheque to Ford when you sell your old pickup truck? I am honestly curious.

 

[The Human Torch]

Don't worry, I didn't buy your game second-hand. I didn't buy it new either, but there ya go.

Welcome to the world of modern economics. Enjoy your stay.
Also: stop pulling numbers out of your arse. Your game still sold 2 million and it's way more than most other developers could ever dream of selling.

 

[Galletea]

If the game was good, I'd have bought it new. But not full price new, I'm not made of money. I don't like to rush out and buy stuff on principle, developing times are so short that a release is rarely finished to a good standard and half the time it just plain isn't finished, and really needed more time for testing and fixing.

If they want me to pay full price for something they should put more effort into finishing their products instead of passing off half arsed, half finished crap and expecting me to thank them for it.

And it didn't cost them anything, they made profits, just not as much as they might have, if it were cheaper to buy these things new.

 

[Dendio]

These points are probably already stated but:
Books and movies are resold used and their industries are handling it.
Video games, books and movies will one day be download only, eliminating second hand selling.