Help Me Make A Game... For Real! (Now Accepting Alpha Testers)

[lacktheknack]

So, I've found a text adventure game maker, Quest. I've posted about it before and the game I've played on it. Overall, I was quite impressed with the engine, so I tried using the actual gamemaker part. It's really fun to use, intuitive, and rewarding to the inner part of me that's very sad I flunked out of programming in University (for math, no less, there's nothing wrong with my coding abilities).

So I've started up a small-ish mystery/horror project. Basically, the plot follows a cynical girl trapped by a rockslide in a bizarrely superstitious mountain village. They're more than friendly enough to her, but they all say the same thing: "Stay out of the church in the meadow."

For some reason or another, she ends up needing to go to said church, and the game sends her with a second playable character, the only one willing to go with her.

By the end of this, she's going to have been through all the various rooms in the church, solved its secrets, and have been in mortal danger a few times... and probably ticked off something supernatural at one point or another.

So where do you, the reader, fit into this?

Quite simply, I need ideas. I can wield text and cohesion pretty well, but I'm a bit low on in-game ideas for how things should look.

Basically, I welcome any suggestions on:
-puzzles
-supernatural monstrosities and how they act
-how the second playable character looks and acts
-what the balance should be on religious horror vs. mystery
-village/church layout
-dangerous situations
-the overall nature of the church

Note that I won't include all ideas. I just want this thread to be a sort of echoing chamber of ideas to help me put together a cohesive whole.

I can't get REALLY into it until next week (I'm supposed to be studying right now), but if this project actually gets its wings over the summer, I'll be sure to post a link to it for you guys, and maybe even include usernames in the credits!

EDIT: Alpha Testing: See post 51.

 

[booker]

To sidetrack the thread right away... what exactly do you mean by "religious horror"?

 

[Orange12345]

Since it's going to be a text game you probably want to keep the layout fairly simple maybe have a town square in the center as a hub from which you can go to each house/store/etc.

 

[lacktheknack]

To sidetrack the thread right away... what exactly do you mean by "religious horror"?

"Religious horror" is just a horror subgenre that's based off of real-life mythology or a made-up religion. In this case, there's an evil possessing the church, probably Satanic, and the main character will come into direct conflict and contact with it.

Since it's going to be a text game you probably want to keep the layout fairly simple maybe have a town square in the center as a hub from which you can go to each house/store/etc.

Good idea. Although the town won't be the focus of the game, it's only part of the set-up to the meat of the story being set in the church.

Essentially, once the player heads off to the church, they don't come back until the end. And I don't want to keep them in the village for longer than an hour or so.

 

[Voulan]

I second the idea for a hub like area in the village.

For puzzle ideas, simple language or maths problems are usually well received. If you're more into use-item-here puzzles, try to make sure they make sense, and that any items picked up in a sequence won't seemingly work on other areas. For example, if a door is to be opened with a crowbar, make sure they receive a crowbar before another item that could also open the door (but wouldn't because it isn't the right puzzle solution), like a screwdriver. A lot of players get frustrated if they have an item that should work in a puzzle but doesn't because it's not the right puzzle object. Anyway, it's up to you which type of puzzles you want. Maybe you could even have a little fourth wall breakage, and have players look up religious texts online or bible passages.

I'll have a think if I can suggest anything else. If you'd like, I'd be happy to read through game text for grammar mistakes. The amount of errors in games is face palm worthy - I've found mistakes in the last two AAA titles I've played, and almost every RPG maker game. For any credentials, I've done editing for publications and books, if you want to make sure I'll do a decent job.

 

[FalloutJack]

Interesting stuff

Lack, we should talk. As in chat in a back-and-forth conversational manner. I create...quite a bit. To cater to your needs, however, it might be better if we spoke directly. Is that alright with you?

 

[SlaveNumber23]

To enhance the horror/mystery aspect you could have a convoluted and maze-like map layout for the church. Another really cool thing you could do here is make the layout of the church dynamic, so the rooms reorder themselves either randomly or in some pattern, but I'm not sure if the game engine allows for this.

As for puzzles, you want logical, mathematical, or reading comprehension kind of stuff, above all else make sure your puzzles and item combinations make sense.

 

[lacktheknack]

If you're more into use-item-here puzzles, try to make sure they make sense, and that any items picked up in a sequence won't seemingly work on other areas. For example, if a door is to be opened with a crowbar, make sure they receive a crowbar before another item that could also open the door (but wouldn't because it isn't the right puzzle solution), like a screwdriver. A lot of players get frustrated if they have an item that should work in a puzzle but doesn't because it's not the right puzzle object.

Noted. Thanks!

Anyway, it's up to you which type of puzzles you want. Maybe you could even have a little fourth wall breakage, and have players look up religious texts online or bible passages.

That's a cool idea. Is there any game that's pulled this off without making it annoying, though? For instance, in Silent Hill 3, if you weren't up on your Shakespeare, and you played on "Hard Riddle" mode, then you needed a good chunk of time with the Complete Work of Shakespeare to continue, which irritated and confused a lot of people.

I'll have a think if I can suggest anything else. If you'd like, I'd be happy to read through game text for grammar mistakes. The amount of errors in games is face palm worthy - I've found mistakes in the last two AAA titles I've played, and almost every RPG maker game. For any credentials, I've done editing for publications and books, if you want to make sure I'll do a decent job.

I'll take you up on it. It should be an easy job, I'm pretty good at self-editing. Always nice to have a second pair of eyes, though.

Warning: I'm think I'm willing to put in the effort to make really comprehensive situations, tons of optional secrets, and maybe even multiple paths, so there might be a lot of reading.

To enhance the horror/mystery aspect you could have a convoluted and maze-like map layout for the church. Another really cool thing you could do here is make the layout of the church dynamic, so the rooms reorder themselves either randomly or in some pattern, but I'm not sure if the game engine allows for this.

As for puzzles, you want logical, mathematical, or reading comprehension kind of stuff, above all else make sure your puzzles and item combinations make sense.

I think the only way I can "change the layout" is by locking and unlocking various doors, which I imagine would be frustrating to me and the player. I'll see what the engine lets me do, though.

And how hard should a given math problem be? I'm assuming that derivatives are overly hard except for secret rooms, but what about not-base-10 math? I liked it in games like "Beyond Atlantis", but I find I'm better at math than the average Joe (what with me being in a technical physics-based career path and stuff).

 

[Echopunk]

Try to structure your puzzles/scenarios so that they would make sense to somebody in the game's world, and not just someone from the outside (the player) who is looking in. In Dark Forces, how did the staff ever get to that floor of the detention center, seeing as how you had to blast through a section of wall and crawl onto the top of the elevator to reach it?

I like puzzles where you use information as your currency, or favors. Someone in the town might have a key to the church, a caretaker or something. You might need to steal this key, or convince someone to give it to you.

Basically, all of your puzzles and solutions should make sense to someone in the world.

If the Church is possessed, or just there for dark purposes from the outset, the way these secrets are hidden should make sense. What would an initiate of the church have to do to prove their devotion to Demogorgon or whoever you put at the head of the table? Is the dark power in the church/town REAL, or is it an influential cult? Does completing these rituals to unlock the secrets put the player on the path to damnation?

Maybe the chief danger all along is the cult/religious order who want to protect their secrets, but they might be "wannabes" themselves - like kids who sacrifice their neighbors cat because they read about it on the back of a black metal album. Since they come to the church/order seeking power, the "deity" they are trying to appease is largely dismissive/cruel to them. If you go the traditional Satan route, just by seeking the darkness out, a good portion of the cult would already be damned - essentially, the devil's work is done with them, so he would ignore them.

The player has different motivations. Lets posit that her soul is still intact. By completing rituals or learning forbidden knowledge,like an ancient spell/incantation to unseal a passage or translate some apogrypha you find lying around, she is putting herself on the dark path, but is not yet damned. Satan has more work to do with her, so might be more willing to extend his presence in order to claim her soul. Use the Zemiel/Pegleg approach "I have bullets for sale, and the first one is always free." The main character might need a taste of dark power to overcome some mortal danger, and each time she calls upon it, she takes another step into darkness.

What is the goal of the supernatural entity? How did it come to reside in the Church? Are the followers part of the goal, or simply imposing themselves on the entity for favors? If you embrace the stereotypical satanic representation, are naked women used for altars within some hidden niche of the Swartz Kirk(Black Church)?

 

[ItsNotRudy]

What would the game play like? Top-down SNES RPG, first person? There's a lot you can/cannot do regarding puzzles depending on the engine or perspective.

 

[lacktheknack]

Try to structure your puzzles/scenarios so that they would make sense to somebody in the game's world, and not just someone from the outside (the player) who is looking in. In Dark Forces, how did the staff ever get to that floor of the detention center, seeing as how you had to blast through a section of wall and crawl onto the top of the elevator to reach it?

I like puzzles where you use information as your currency, or favors. Someone in the town might have a key to the church, a caretaker or something. You might need to steal this key, or convince someone to give it to you.

Basically, all of your puzzles and solutions should make sense to someone in the world.

I'll remember to run everything through a sanity filter, thanks!

If the Church is possessed, or just there for dark purposes from the outset, the way these secrets are hidden should make sense. What would an initiate of the church have to do to prove their devotion to Demogorgon or whoever you put at the head of the table? Is the dark power in the church/town REAL, or is it an influential cult? Does completing these rituals to unlock the secrets put the player on the path to damnation?

Maybe the chief danger all along is the cult/religious order who want to protect their secrets, but they might be "wannabes" themselves - like kids who sacrifice their neighbors cat because they read about it on the back of a black metal album. Since they come to the church/order seeking power, the "deity" they are trying to appease is largely dismissive/cruel to them. If you go the traditional Satan route, just by seeking the darkness out, a good portion of the cult would already be damned - essentially, the devil's work is done with them, so he would ignore them.

The player has different motivations. Lets posit that her soul is still intact. By completing rituals or learning forbidden knowledge,like an ancient spell/incantation to unseal a passage or translate some apogrypha you find lying around, she is putting herself on the dark path, but is not yet damned. Satan has more work to do with her, so might be more willing to extend his presence in order to claim her soul. Use the Zemiel/Pegleg approach "I have bullets for sale, and the first one is always free." The main character might need a taste of dark power to overcome some mortal danger, and each time she calls upon it, she takes another step into darkness.

What is the goal of the supernatural entity? How did it come to reside in the Church? Are the followers part of the goal, or simply imposing themselves on the entity for favors? If you embrace the stereotypical satanic representation, are naked women used for altars within some hidden niche of the Swartz Kirk(Black Church)?

All good questions/suggestions. It's worth mentioning that I'm a dedicated Christian, so writing religious horror is difficult, but rewarding and forces me to think about what I believe. A lot of what I write will be based off of stuff I actually believe, but there's lots of room for fictionalizing (which is why I ask for help in coming up with monsters and situations).

I'm leaning towards "the building itself is possessed", rather than involving a cult, but I'm willing to bend on that. Everyone in town will act strangely, though, so don't worry about that.

What would the game play like? Top-down SNES RPG, first person? There's a lot you can/cannot do regarding puzzles depending on the engine or perspective.

Text adventure (first sentence of OP). Many scoff at them, but I can actually make games in them (they're entirely focused on programming/writing, rather than graphics, which I suck at), and they're actually really damn effective at horror, since you can't see anything.

The engine does allow for pictures, music and sounds, though, just not animation.

 

[SlaveNumber23]

And how hard should a given math problem be? I'm assuming that derivatives are overly hard except for secret rooms, but what about not-base-10 math? I liked it in games like "Beyond Atlantis", but I find I'm better at math than the average Joe (what with me being in a technical physics-based career path and stuff).

I reckon a good balance would be to have the actual mathematics as simple and basic stuff, yet the overall problem requires deeper logical/analytical thinking. So for example the problem might require you to do some simple multiplication, but it requires perception and careful thinking for the player to reach the conclusion that they have to perform the simple multiplication to solve the problem.

In this way you are making your game accessible to anyone with a basic primary/middle school maths background, I think its safe to say that pretty much everyone who will play your game will meet this requirement. I don't think you want your players to have to stop playing the game and go try and learn new mathematical concepts off of Wikipedia or something.

 

[lacktheknack]

And how hard should a given math problem be? I'm assuming that derivatives are overly hard except for secret rooms, but what about not-base-10 math? I liked it in games like "Beyond Atlantis", but I find I'm better at math than the average Joe (what with me being in a technical physics-based career path and stuff).

I reckon a good balance would be to have the actual mathematics as simple and basic stuff, yet the overall problem requires deeper logical/analytical thinking. So for example the problem might require you to do some simple multiplication, but it requires perception and careful thinking for the player to reach the conclusion that they have to perform the simple multiplication to solve the problem.

In this way you are making your game accessible to anyone with a basic primary/middle school maths background, I think its safe to say that pretty much everyone who will play your game will meet this requirement. I don't think you want your players to have to stop playing the game and go try and learn new mathematical concepts off of Wikipedia or something.

Duly noted.

Although, what DO you think of locking off secret optional areas with complex math? Is that mean, or a nifty feature for physics graduates?

 

[SlaveNumber23]

Duly noted.

Although, what DO you think of locking off secret optional areas with complex math? Is that mean, or a nifty feature for physics graduates?

Well I think that making secret optional areas a lot more challenging to get into/through is a great idea, but I would personally make them challenging in a different way than throwing in a bunch of complex math if I was designing the game. But hey, there's nothing wrong with making the puzzles mathematically complex if that's what you want to do. I've never made a text based game before so just throwing ideas around.

 

[Thomas Barnsley]

In regards to the companion you want to have, I reckon someone fairly like able. I know that doesn't sound like it fits with the horror theme, but I find companions so much more interesting if I like them.

Also, maybe you could make it nonhuman? Maybe I kind of living instrument to help with puzzles and background knowledge. That would be interesting.

 

[MXRom]

Well for the monster maybe you could make it something Lovecraftian? You never actually see it physically, only statues of it, the cultists who worship it, symbols that represent it(and drain your sanity/health if you stare at them for too long)and whatever monsters that serve as its thralls. What makes this sort of thing so horrifying is that it is so above you that whatever motivations it has cannot be truly comprehended.

I think what might add to the tension is that just by being in the church 'it' sees you. When you enter it just feels like an itch on the back of the neck, and if you keep moving, it stays that way. But linger in one place for too long, like say if you are solving a puzzle or hiding, 'it' focuses on you. This can be described as the player feeling a pressure building on them, or feeling an unnatural breeze against them, something that just makes the place feel even more wrong, and it is harder to form thoughts. At this point you can try to leave the church, or by using some sort of expendable item/ward, can reduce the feeling of 'it's gaze and allow you to go on unhindered.

Throwing that out, after playing 'Call of Cthulhu'.

 

[lacktheknack]

In regards to the companion you want to have, I reckon someone fairly like able. I know that doesn't sound like it fits with the horror theme, but I find companions so much more interesting if I like them.

Also, maybe you could make it nonhuman? Maybe I kind of living instrument to help with puzzles and background knowledge. That would be interesting.

Seeing how they're going to be a PC, they more or less have to be likable... and human. An AI partner in a text adventure is going on my "for next time" list, though... unless I can find a feasible and non-crowded way of integrating both...

Well for the monster maybe you could make it something Lovecraftian? You never actually see it physically, only statues of it, the cultists who worship it, symbols that represent it(and drain your sanity/health if you stare at them for too long)and whatever monsters that serve as its thralls. What makes this sort of thing so horrifying is that it is so above you that whatever motivations it has cannot be truly comprehended.

I think what might add to the tension is that just by being in the church 'it' sees you. When you enter it just feels like an itch on the back of the neck, and if you keep moving, it stays that way. But linger in one place for too long, like say if you are solving a puzzle or hiding, 'it' focuses on you. This can be described as the player feeling a pressure building on them, or feeling an unnatural breeze against them, something that just makes the place feel even more wrong, and it is harder to form thoughts. At this point you can try to leave the church, or by using some sort of expendable item/ward, can reduce the feeling of 'it's gaze and allow you to go on unhindered.

Throwing that out, after playing 'Call of Cthulhu'.

While including time limits is very fear-inducing, it's also quite maddening in your average text adventure.

And since I'm probably going to go Satanic (since I know more about that than Lovecraftian horrors), the incomprehensibility probably won't stick (and is hard to describe in text anyhow).

An idea I DO like in there is loss of stability, though. Any ideas on how to implement that beyond "Here is your sanity bar, don't run out of sanity"?

 

[David Bjur]

Man, I love this idea, and I even got a tip for you:
Any writer should remember to "tease" all the readers five senses. What does the player hear? What does the player smell? What does the player feel? Is there possibly a 'taste' in the air? Is it cold or hot? Windy or a soft breeze?
Only giving the player a visual description is fine, but for that extra touch make sure to tell the player what he hears, smells, tastes and feels and you'll make an excellent horror text adventure.
Also, will the supernatural beings be any threat to the player or are they just there to enhance the story and experience?

 

[lacktheknack]

Man, I love this idea, and I even got a tip for you:
Any writer should remember to "tease" all the readers five senses. What does the player hear? What does the player smell? What does the player feel? Is there possibly a 'taste' in the air? Is it cold or hot? Windy or a soft breeze?
Only giving the player a visual description is fine, but for that extra touch make sure to tell the player what he hears, smells, tastes and feels and you'll make an excellent horror text adventure.
Also, will the supernatural beings be any threat to the player or are they just there to enhance the story and experience?

All five senses, yes. I remember the best text adventures doing that.

And the monsters are only a danger to stupid players. Unless I can think of a fair way to threaten the players without frustrating the slow ones.

 

[David Bjur]

All five senses, yes. I remember the best text adventures doing that.

And the monsters are only a danger to stupid players. Unless I can think of a fair way to threaten the players without frustrating the slow ones.

So will the monsters be tangible or not? Depending on what kind of monster we're talking about here there are several possible scenarios to heighten tension in-game.
I'm sorry for asking, I'm just so damn curious