Hentai Collector Sentenced to Jail Over "Obscene" Material
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
This ruling, and future rulings like it, are incredibly dangerous. First of all, I've seen some of the stuff that floats about the Japanese "porn" market, and it is obscene. However, this ruling chips away at the idiocy dam currently holding back the idiot legislature that is trying to flood all of humanity.
Now, a lawyer can try to argue in court that "violent video games" are inherently "obscene and aggressive", regardless if it is virtual or not, and will reference this case and others like it to reinforce this stupid ideal. All it would take is a 'sway in the wind' jury or an idealist judge for us to start seeing full on "Ministry of Propaganda" rulings and bans.
Now, a lawyer can try to argue in court that "violent video games" are inherently "obscene and aggressive", regardless if it is virtual or not, and will reference this case and others like it to reinforce this stupid ideal. All it would take is a 'sway in the wind' jury or an idealist judge for us to start seeing full on "Ministry of Propaganda" rulings and bans.
Fair enough. I just don't think that it's normal for people to "collect" cartoon porn, especially if it's child cartoon porn.Cliff_m85 said:
oppp7 said:
Canada won't help, all rumors to the contrary aside it's a few steps down from the US in the Civil Liberties department, people (including most Canadians) don't like that reality check though.
For example back when I was doing Criminal Justice training, there were comparisons between the US and Canadian systems, as well as things on joint programs to pool law enforcement resources for catching unusually violent criminals and such. In most cases I tend to point to Canada as an example of a middle ground between our level of somewhat ridiculous civil liberties here, and the methods they use to get the job done when capturing criminals.
This was back like 12 or more years ago when I was in college, but one point they made for example was that in Canada they have the concept of a blank warrent. Instead of getting a warrent approved through a third party, a cop can pretty much create his own warrent and justify it afterwards, though if he does so and messes up he can get the book thrown at him. There are safeguards, but basically it allows the use of a lot more common sense in apprehending criminals (in general) and less requirements for establishing a chain of evidence and justifying what was "reasonable suspician".
For something like this, what it means is that if some cop suspected you had a copy of the books from the article above in Canada, he could pretty much knock down your door and bust you for it. More attention being paid to whether you had them or not, than why he suspected it to begin with. If he found them, he's golden.
In the US they typically have to go through a judge or other third party at least briefly to get approval to follow through on their suspicians.
In actual practice this means that in Canada you could literally get "vanned" and it would be business as usual, where in the US they really can't act quite that liberally.
This is a basic run down, and probably more serious than intended, but in general I get tired of everyone always screaming "oh I'm going to run to Canada" every time they don't like something. Canada is not a bad place, and hardly a police state, but honestly it's not exactly going to be a refuge from some of the things people want to hide from.
Besides I believe not too long ago they nailed someone for having a copy of "Puni Puni Poemy" which is a spin off from "Excel Saga", and what's more can be purchused legally in the US without needing an importer. They seem to be a couple steps further along in the moral fascism direction than the US is.
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As far as the rest goes, all I can again say is to remember your right to keep and bear arms, and also to stand up and fight rather than caving to the prosecuter in important trials. If your case banks heavily on a legal definition, then remember you want a trial before a JUDGE. 99.9% of the time you want a Jury, but in the case of a technical defense you do not. This means this guy's defense attorney was incompetant since the case was basically resolved by the Prosecuter enraging the jury with the "porn" itself rather than actually making a case before the law as it reads to me.
What's more, I am not familiar with those works, but I don't remember them ever having been declared obsecene officially. While dated I seem to remember there are specific standards for declaring something "offensive and without redeeming merits". One of the reasons why porno companies include a bare-bones plotline in some of their work, so they can claim it's an "art film" if ever questioned.
Hey, for all I know I'd agree this stuff should be banned if I saw it, but frankly this seems like another moral rampage with someone trying to work their personal standards into law.
OK lets say that the man was actually a paedophile, and that his lolli was quenching his "desire" for children.
should this not be SUPPORTED? Would you rather he got off on actual children, from which can be scarred for life.
Instead you can have DRAWN children, from which will quench his children desire, and does not injure anyone. It's win-Win. And yet you are charged for it.
What.
The.
Fuck.
Is.
This.
Shit.
should this not be SUPPORTED? Would you rather he got off on actual children, from which can be scarred for life.
Instead you can have DRAWN children, from which will quench his children desire, and does not injure anyone. It's win-Win. And yet you are charged for it.
What.
The.
Fuck.
Is.
This.
Shit.
False dilemma. The opposing argument could be that if he wasn't using cartoon images he would've used actual images. Or that if he wasn't able to procure animated images he would've acted out his fantasies in real life. Both you and I are wrong, since there is not enough information to judge the individual. After all, he could've just been a collector of rare materials.Mcface said:
So when the police arrest you for fraud and embezzlement tomorrow, you will have no contest to that charge, because you may one day commit those crimes?Mcface said:
Except you're once again conflating urges to molest with sexual attraction (they're not; much like with rape, it's not an issue of attraction, but control and dominance) and assuming that the only satisfying sex a pedophile can have is with a child. Whatever disadvantage they have versus homosexuals when it comes to social acceptance of preferred partners, they still have the advantage of satisfying sex with a much wider range of social acceptance.fletch_talon said:
Besides, there already are pedophile support groups. They do just fine by themselves, without necessitating the pity and inherent moral misjudgment of others. The law need only concern itself with those who break the law.
Already mentioned that they do just fine controlling their urges by themselves. And I stand by my analogy. You're also mixing up "molestation" with "statutory rape;" while it's still illegal, it is technically possible to have consensual sex with pre-adolescents (it's just extraordinarily inadvisable). My point was that hypersexuals are not inherently drawn towards rape as pedophiles aren't inherently drawn towards molestation, because rape and molestation are more often the result of much different urges.
You also seem to be under the assumption that all child molesters are pedophiles.
Understandable. Though every individual has a different definition of normal when it comes to sex. What you dig I might find disgusting and what I dig you might find disgusting. Though it's not 100% for certain that this individual was getting his jollies from the material. He could just be a collector of rare hentai?The Austin said:
I would say prove that it is, considering that the burden of proof falls upon the one that makes the claim, but really, how do you prove something is artistic?Piecewise said:
True, but I have personally seen and heard many cases in which a guy will start with this kind of thing, and it will build the urge to actually act on it. Weather or not this could would have, is impossible to prove. He used bad judgment in buying this stuff, but the government has no right to bust in and seize the material, only prevent him from obtaining it.Cliff_m85 said:
Hum...Beyond the punishment being a tad excessive, I don't see a problem. All of the items in question are Hentai. Hentai can be defined as pornographic or at the least, sexually explicit manga/comics. These items are intended to be used as masturbatory aids. You can call it art if you like, it's still porn.
Now, estimating the age of any of the characters in manga is a practice in futility, as they all look underage. However, if the novel clearly states that they are pre-pubescent, then it is clear that this is pornography depicting children committing sexual acts. To the law, it doesn't matter if it's drawn or not, it's still child pornography.
The possession of child pornography is against the law, whether or not the man is a pedophile or not is beside the point. This is a matter of possession/trafficking. The punishment is at the very least excessive, but saying he deserves no punishment seems simply wrong to me. Is it fair that the law has set formal norms that go against his way of life? Sure. Laws are based on cultural norms, shame I know, but it's simply how it is. That's why the same hentai is completely legal in Japan, cultural norms are different there. If you find yourself identifying with the Japanese culture in such a way that it prevents you from living a life following the few basic rules your current society imposes, then it may be time to move to Japan.
There's my opinion. "Flame shields, up!"
Now, estimating the age of any of the characters in manga is a practice in futility, as they all look underage. However, if the novel clearly states that they are pre-pubescent, then it is clear that this is pornography depicting children committing sexual acts. To the law, it doesn't matter if it's drawn or not, it's still child pornography.
The possession of child pornography is against the law, whether or not the man is a pedophile or not is beside the point. This is a matter of possession/trafficking. The punishment is at the very least excessive, but saying he deserves no punishment seems simply wrong to me. Is it fair that the law has set formal norms that go against his way of life? Sure. Laws are based on cultural norms, shame I know, but it's simply how it is. That's why the same hentai is completely legal in Japan, cultural norms are different there. If you find yourself identifying with the Japanese culture in such a way that it prevents you from living a life following the few basic rules your current society imposes, then it may be time to move to Japan.
There's my opinion. "Flame shields, up!"
Isn't the American Justice system perfect! I'm sure there is nothing needed to fix it.
He wanted to read his Hentai.....
...But the Parasite,
said NOOOOOO!
Seriously, since when have we become Australia?
He wanted to read his Hentai.....
...But the Parasite,
said NOOOOOO!
Seriously, since when have we become Australia?
I'm going to guess from your terrible grammar and spelling, lack of argument and use of a political party name as a pseudo-insult that you're a 14 year old who's feeling very superior right now for no reason. I'm an independent by the way because I don't side overtly with either the conservatives or the liberals because both are prone to myopia.Tom4Tom said:
So, unless you can actually give a definition of what kind of liberalism and what kind of Conservatism you're talking about, because there are dozens of each, I think it's going to seem like you have no idea what you're talking about and are now running away because someone called you out.