Heteronormaltivity in games

[Subscriptism]

Many games do not explicitly tell you the orientation of the characters, most just ASSUME they are straight. However, there is no reason why you cant assume they are gay.

We don't assume anyone is gay because most people aren't. Notice you don't assume they're straight either until romance comes up in a story line.

Assuming a character belongs to a minority without any cues means you are going to be wrong most of the time.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

"By the way, did I mention I like dudes?"

*wipes xeno guts off his visor

-"Not the time, Gary, not the time."

It usually seems kind of insignificant in the game's overall plot, and you almost always see it in RPG's.
why? because there is some actual down-time in rpg's, most other games aren't paced right to get into those kinda details without feeling forced.

also, did everyone forget about the elevator scene in bulletstorm?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlg8gdfmWgA

 

[WearyOne]

I registered just for this - hooray. \o/

I'd like to address the "sexuality doesn't come up in games", "sexuality isn't relevant in games" and "you can interpret the characters however you like" arguments all in one go.

Heteronormativity in most media is very very subtle at times but leaves no room for interpretation (except in the fanfiction world ). Examples I've often seen in these arguments are characters like Marcus Fenix, Link, Master Chief, Mario, Gordon Freeman, and other protagonists who don't directly reference their sexuality. Somehow we're meant to project ourselves onto them to make them whatever we want them to be. These characters are often described as asexual or we're told their sexuality can be interpreted however we want, but clues in the games themselves steer toward them being straight.

Marcus and Dom in Gears of War - yes yes, we've all heard the jokes and the developers had a hand in that in the first game when they put in co-op achievements like "I Can't Quit You" but both characters have only shown heterosexual behavior in their games (at least up to the halfway point of Gears 3 - I still haven't finished that game). Dom is searching for his wife, and Marcus is heavily implied to have a thing for Anya. This doesn't mean they can't both be bi, but there's no evidence for that - their own relationship with each other is portrayed more as a brotherly love.

Link and Mario - This one is easy. When have either of these character rescued a prince? Hetero norm.

Master Chief - This is probably the loosest example because Spartans for the most part appear to be asexual (until Halo 4, but those are Spartan 4s) but there is a bit of heteronormativity here in Master Chief's attachment to Cortana. If Master Chief's A.I. had been someone like Roland (Halo 4) from the outset, would we see a bond like we do between Chief and Cortana? Likely no. Yeah, you could probably make the argument that since Cortana is a digital clone of Doctor Halsey (the only mother Master Chief has ever known) the relationship isn't necessarily sexual in nature, but their dialog implies otherwise. Actually a better argument would be for objectophilia but that's all based on whether or not you consider Cortana a person.

Gordon Freeman - silent protagonist, we never see his face in-game, but through the actions of the other characters were supposed to feel an emotional attachment to Alyx Vance.

Just because the above characters never shoved their tongue in a woman's mouth doesn't mean they're not written as heterosexual or from a heterosexual perspective. And as for why it matters, it's about some gamers' ability to relate to these characters and the discomfort some feel playing as heterosexual characters in every single game. Also when a group is underrepresented in a genre it can feel like they're not welcomed or they don't belong - especially to a group that's not allowed to marry in most states and constantly has people telling them that what they do is a sin. So yeah, it matters.

Sorry for wordy wall o' text. If you read this far, have a cookie. ^_^

 

[LaoJim]

Is it going to feel forced if an NPC casually mentions they're gay? Maybe at the moment, but only because it's so uncommon in games at the moment that it's going to strike you as unusual. I mean suppose in you latest space marine shooter one grunt says "Oh my god! The bugs have nuked Boston, my wife Mary is there!". Is that line inherently any different to one saying "Oh my god! The bugs have nuked Boston, my partner Richard is there!"? Is it more forced or tokenist? Would anyone really be that offended by it that they wouldn't want to buy the game?

The thing is writers, and I'm sure not every one who works in game development is straight, still have to fight to get that line in there, even though it should just be a throw away line. There's going to be pressure to go with the first safer line.

I mean red hair is fairly uncommon, but you wouldn't feel that a writer was being tokenist by included a red-headed character or one who was left handed. (Come to think of it, are only women in games are allowed to have red hair, are there any ginger male protagonists?) Homosexual is still political, there are lots of people who still want to exclude it because they think it is wrong, and lots of people who want the games industry to stop ignoring something that really should be common place in the 21st century.

 

[ForumSafari]

I'd like to address the "sexuality doesn't come up in games", "sexuality isn't relevant in games" and "you can interpret the characters however you like" arguments all in one go.

That's not really addressing the argument though, it's basically saying that characters are subtly straight in games where they were mostly written as straight. I think it's fairly obvious that the GOW lot are straight but remember that in HL2 the way Alyx feels for Freeman tells you nothing about how Freeman feels for Alyx, in fact I don't think beyond the initial flirting the character provokes any feeling in me beyond cameraderie and later on sympathy. Secondly Master Chief isn't shown to have anything beyond a friendly relationship with Cortana, if she's flirting that's on her. Again though I've never seen Cortana do anything beyond humour and charm.

As for making gay people feel unwelcome that doesn't say anything about the characters being heteronormative or not, that's an argument that on 4chan is known as 'muh emotions'. Just because gay people may feel that these characters are written as straight doesn't make them right about it.

 

[Lilani]

the sad but true fact is, if the main character is gay, and im not talking bi like in a lot of EA Bioware games, but gay, it wouldnt sell as well, and game makers are trying to make money. Plain and simple.

Can you prove that? Do you have specific cases of games failing because the public went "Oh no! A gay character! I can't buy this game!"

 

[prpshrt]

Having an exclusively gay character might make some people uncomfortable I guess? Now I'm not one to discriminate at all. Heck I have homosexual friends and I couldn't care less. Thing is when my character doesn't have a choice to be heterosexual, it might make me a little uncomfortable when I come across a scene where I see my character in the arms of their respective homosexual partner. Building a game where the protagonist has a choice to be gay? Sure, that's not a problem at all. Making a game where the protagonist is exclusively gay? Don't think we're there yet. Please don't hate me, I'm not homophobic T_T.

 

[Azahul]

I don't want to play as a gay man in a game. I don't like playing as a female either. Thats probably why things like that are optional and can be skipped.

What if I don't want to play as a straight man? Can I skip that in Dead Space? Or Gears of War? Or Grand Theft Auto?

Okay i'm a son of a ***** for being straight. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that the world cators to my needs in video games, tv, and movies.
Only I'm not. See when your really sorry your apologizing for something you intend to stop doing.

And honestly there is nothing I can do to give away these privileges. Nor would I even if i had 100s of people trying to shame me out of them. Why can't everyone say this who thinks it?

It's kind of weird that the world feels it's so damned necessary to cater to the needs of us straight white males by making all the characters straight white males. I would freaking well cheer if I were playing a game where I get a mission to rescue my character's boyfriend or something. It's certainly not your fault that the world caters to you. What's bloody absurd is that the world feels that it needs to. Frankly, it's insulting. Game developers clearly have such a low opinion of me, and my demographic, that they feel the presence of a little bit of homosexual romance would drive me away from the game.

For some reason, Sleeping Dogs has been in my mind through this entire discussion. There are random little side missions throughout the game where you can go out on dates with girls your character has met. They're not a big deal, just a break from the more action-y gameplay and a way to flesh out the protagonist's character a bit. I certainly wouldn't object to a game that chose to do little missions like that. Important to note is that these romance missions in Sleeping Dogs did more than demonstrate that Lee is heterosexual, they show other sides to his personality (as do the case files you can unlock about said dates) that wouldn't have come out during the course of the main story that help to flesh him out as a character. Obviously, to anyone saying that missions like this would serve no purpose other than to make the main character gay, these missions would serve an extra purpose. They could easily do the exact same thing, adding depth to the character. The gender of whoever the character might be dating should be irrelevant and have no bearing on a mission's ability to do that.

If a game were to do something like that, the romantic in me would certainly be willing to play along regardless of whether or not the characters involved conform to my own sexuality.

 

[s0p0g]

it's a big industry (when we're talking AAA games), and that means there's a lot of money to make, and to lose.
to not lose money you must make sure that your audience can relate to the characters, so they'll go for the game.
homosexuality is not normal (normal as in the most common thing, the usual). and although i'd say that for hetero people relating to homo people is as hard as the other way around, heteros and bis are still the biggest chunk of the market, so while making homo relationships optional is a great thing (more choices/freedom = more better), a (AAA) game with exclusevily homo relationships will have a hard time - smaller market and such; that just won't work for big releases, unless you pull it off absolutely astoundingly - and in these times it'll be pretty hard to find a big publisher willing to take that much of a risk.

i don't really care that much whether my character is hetero/homo/bi, as most "romances" are not really that well written anyway.
just imagine the development and what the characters say in a book, or movie and compare that to writing in games - games can rarely live up to the older and old medium (at least in the romance-area), so i usually just leave romances out entirely.
(i alway wondered, when a poll showed up, why people only asked who was the victim of our romantical playthrough in ME/DA/whatever (most prominent games, i'd say), and never ever asked if we pursued a romance at all)

and if the games not about relationships at all - why bother? it doesn't matter then (just as you don't say that the protagonist is hetero if it doesn't matter at all)

 

[Norix596]

y they no make gay characters you ask? Well because it's viewed as a creativity risk that's unwilling to pay off or to backfire in an American audience as poorly as that reflects on us as a country. I think there might be some hope in the fact that the bigoted "impure values" crowed that would be mobilized to complain is already regularly against gaming to no avail annnnyway... so... It might be another one of those self-fulfilling prophesies.

So in Make-Your-Own-Character games it's becoming more common but that's kind of empty as an "achievement" of a diverse case because frequently there's just one designated "gay relationship NPC" - but even beyond that I think it's something different to have a written character, much more so a main character who is gay rather than being variable in appearance, gender, personality, orientation and what have you. A possible option is to have it be "subtle" and not bang the audience over the head with it like in the American Port of Fire Emblem: Path of Radience. But I don't think any one is going to be served by just trying to crowbar in a designated gay side character with their sexual orientation as their defining characteristic because that's what I'm afraid is likely to happen.

 

[lord.jeff]

Because writing is hard and writing interesting gay characters spends valuable time and money that can be better spent shooting things.

Why would writing an interesting gay character be any different then writing an interesting straight character? Or are you saying you just want less story and character development in general?

 

[Noetherian]

Having an exclusively gay character might make some people uncomfortable I guess?

Well, that's exactly the problem. It would be just like the way things are now-- having almost nothing but straight male characters makes women and gay people uncomfortable, too. Only they don't have the option of avoiding that by encouraging the status quo. I do want to commend you for understanding why this is problematic and hard to talk about, and to thank you for recognizing your privilege here.

There's been a lot of good debate on this topic on the Star Wars: the Old Republic forums, in response to Bioware's lackluster fulfillment of their promise to provide same-sex relationships in that game. (ALL the companion characters are straight, and only in the new expansion can you so much as flirt with same-sex NPC's. Hardly balanced, and hardly living up to Bioware's usual standard, despite protests on the part of the userbase.) OK-- I say debate, but it's been almost entirely among users, as BioWare seems to have many other more important things to deal with.

One of the suggestions BioWare has openly rejected is the idea of making same-sex options "toggled," so that for example if seeing two men kiss makes you so uncomfortable you just can't play the game anymore, you could check a box and have it hidden from you. BioWare called this "hate speech" and has banned any further discussion of that option.

As someone who's emphatically for inclusion in gaming, I feel conflicted about that decision. BioWare seems to have taken a big step forward with their decree that, effectively, homophobes need to relax already, while at the same time they've taken several steps back in refusing to make good on their promise of same-sex relationships in any kind of timely fashion. I'd almost be happier with their continued focus on pleasing the homophobic audience if we could at least check a box to get access to the progressive content the rest of us are comfortable with and in many cases enthusiastic about.

What do you escapists think? Would a toggle or "sexual preference(s)" setting at the start of a game be an acceptable solution, or at least preferable to the current dearth of representation for the "10%"?

(Personally, I have always found that 10% statistic ridiculous, as so many people are still closeted and understandably uncomfortable disclosing their sexuality. It also doesn't begin to address asexuality, which could be another option for gaming entirely.)

 

[CelestDaer]

Very few games have handled homosexuality well, and those that have have done so by downplaying that character's sexuality (Persona 4's Kanji notwithstanding).

Kanji isn't gay. He's confused. He doesn't trust women because of his enjoyment of sewing and other stereotypically 'feminine' things, and he thinks men will understand. After his dungeon, the only person who calls him gay or even insinuates it is Yosuke because he doesn't entirely trust Kanji.

Can you prove that? Do you have specific cases of games failing because the public went "Oh no! A gay character! I can't buy this game!"

Not a game, but Paranorman, and Neil's older brother? Made one comment about his boyfriend, and people got pissed.

 

[shootthebandit]

Bill from The Last of Us is gay, as in he's a well written character that just happens to be gay. Guess since he's not all stereotypical, flamboyant and you don't get to romance him (but it's not like you get to romance anyone in this game) and you don't get to play as him, people don't mention him much, if at all, in these types of threads.

when do you find this out, i might have missed it or not got to that point yet?

Spoiler: do you find out when...

you are in the town and he rescues you when youre hanging upside down, or when you get the car and drop him off at that building in the car? or is it when elle finds that magazine? (if so id didnt realise it was bills)

ON TOPIC: the reason there isnt many gay people in games is because there isnt many gay people in real life. OP even said it "heteronormaltivity" its normal to be hetero *disclaimer* i mean normal in the sense that the vast majority of people are straight, not that its ever acceptable to even consider a homosexual as "abnormal" *disclaimer*

I don't want to play as a gay man in a game. I don't like playing as a female either. Thats probably why things like that are optional and can be skipped.

What if I don't want to play as a straight man? Can I skip that in Dead Space? Or Gears of War? Or Grand Theft Auto?

I'd really like to skip it in GTA.

*cough* ballad of GAY tony *cough* you might not have played as the title character but he was significant enough to be titled

As a straight man, homosexuality doesnt bother me in the slightest. I couldnt care less if my character was gay or straight in the same way it doesnt matter if my character is black or white. I honestly dont understand why people make such a big deal out of it. how many silent protagonists do we have in gaming that may actually be homosexual. Unless the character actually engages in sexual activity or has a wife/partner or specifically reveals/ hints their homosexuality how are we to know? Just like real life most homosexuals you would never know unless they actually told you

Also Call of Duty multiplayer is full of homosexuals thousands of them, every time i go on that game theres constantly someone calling someone else a "fag" (where i come from this is actually a purely innocent term for a cigarette) in order to deflect their own latent homosexuality

 

[jehk]

I'd really like to skip it in GTA.

*cough* ballad of GAY tony *cough* you might not have played as the title character but he was significant enough to be titled

I was thinking more along the lines of playing a women.

 

[Silvanus]

As a straight man, homosexuality doesnt bother me in the slightest. I couldnt care less if my character was gay or straight in the same way it doesnt matter if my character is black or white. I honestly dont understand why people make such a big deal out of it.

I think the reason you "don't understand why people make such a big deal out of", could be because you are of the demographic the games industry caters to.

If almost every romantic sub-plot in games was gay, you may feel a little differently. I don't doubt that a lot of the commentators here would have the opposite stance if it was the other way around. I'm not saying you're homophobic; I'm just saying that most people take heteronormativity for granted, and that's why they don't see a problem.



To those saying something to the effect of;

"Lots of protagonists (Master Chief, Gordon Freeman etc) don't mention their sexuality! They could be gay!"

...well, yes, they could be. But that's not the issue here. In every case of a protagonist with a romantic sub-plot written into the game, of which there are many, it is straight.

Saying that these silent characters could be gay, is essentially saying that we can just go imagine a story for ourselves when the industry fails to give a shit.

 

[Doom972]

Making a game in which you have to be a gay character might alienate a lot of people. I would play the game for the same reasons I play any other game, but explicit gay male sexual content would be a turn-off for me. Other people, however, might decide to pass on the game just for featuring a gay protagonist. When making a game, publishers/developers don't want to take that kind of risk (many are still worried about a straight female protagonist alienating a lot of people).

the sad but true fact is, if the main character is gay, and im not talking bi like in a lot of EA Bioware games, but gay, it wouldnt sell as well, and game makers are trying to make money. Plain and simple.

Can you prove that? Do you have specific cases of games failing because the public went "Oh no! A gay character! I can't buy this game!"

Do you need proof of intolerance towards LGBT existing?

 

[LadyLightning]

I don't want to play as a gay man in a game. I don't like playing as a female either. Thats probably why things like that are optional and can be skipped.

What if I don't want to play as a straight man? Can I skip that in Dead Space? Or Gears of War? Or Grand Theft Auto?

I'd really like to skip it in GTA.

This is why you should play Saint's Row instead. Same kind of gameplay, same open-world style, but you create your own character, male, female, transgender, gay, straight or bi.

 

[jehk]

I don't want to play as a gay man in a game. I don't like playing as a female either. Thats probably why things like that are optional and can be skipped.

What if I don't want to play as a straight man? Can I skip that in Dead Space? Or Gears of War? Or Grand Theft Auto?

I'd really like to skip it in GTA.

This is why you should play Saint's Row instead. Same kind of gameplay, same open-world style, but you create your own character, male, female, transgender, gay, straight or bi.

I have played SR 3/4. I'd still like to play GTA as a women.

EDIT: Just lamenting so many open world games have a static male protagonist.