Heteronormaltivity in games

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Y no gay characters in games? Riddle me this: what fucking difference does the protagonist's sexual orientation make at all in most types of games and game stories? Would it affect gameplay in any way? Unless we're talking games like dating sims or story-heavy games that have a lot of human drama like Heavy Rain or L.A. Noire, making a character gay just because "Hey, he's gay" would feel completely gratuituous to me.

 

[Aramis Night]

I like how this conversation has been all about how we need more gays in games, and then everyone bringing up their lists of games that do in fact have gay characters, only to have everyone shot down for excuses for why they don't qualify. I mean, lets get real here. We have had all sorts of deviations in games for a long time. Hell, we have had tranny's in games since Ms. Pac Man. Luigi couldn't be more gay. And the Belmonts were a bloodline devoted to the bdsm scene.

 

[ninjaRiv]

... Why SHOULD they make games with gay protagonists? Financially, it's a risk and not a needed one. Honestly, if people want to see more gay protagonists, they should go make one. Same with female characters.

 

[ninjaRiv]

... Why SHOULD they make games with gay protagonists? Financially, it's a risk and not a needed one. Honestly, if people want to see more gay protagonists, they should go make one. Same with female characters.

That's the problem,the game industry should take more risks and start pushing boundaries instead of playing it safe all the time.Why should straight people be catered to all the time while gays and other minorities are told "If you want gay,black,asian,spanish,or transgender characters that they should make them"?

Why can't the straight white audience let other people have games that cater to them without bitching about it?

But the industry has no reason to take those risks at all. If they keep doing what they're doing, they keep their current audience. If they take that risk, they lose a few. Why would they take that chance? Why SHOULD they take that chance? There is no need for them to risk their money.

But if new developers start making games with gay protagonists, games that sell well, they'll take the risk. Or chances of risks being taken will increase. People should give companies a reason to make gay characters, not just complain about it. Make the games you want, prove tot he industry it's possible. Seems kind of like an obvious thing to do, imo. The best thing to do, too.

 

[Aramis Night]

... Why SHOULD they make games with gay protagonists? Financially, it's a risk and not a needed one. Honestly, if people want to see more gay protagonists, they should go make one. Same with female characters.

That's the problem,the game industry should take more risks and start pushing boundaries instead of playing it safe all the time.Why should straight people be catered to all the time while gays and other minorities are told "If you want gay,black,asian,spanish,or transgender characters that they should make them"?

Why can't the straight white audience let other people have games that cater to them without bitching about it?

But the industry has no reason to take those risks at all. If they keep doing what they're doing, they keep their current audience. If they take that risk, they lose a few. Why would they take that chance? Why SHOULD they take that chance? There is no need for them to risk their money.

But if new developers start making games with gay protagonists, games that sell well, they'll take the risk. Or chances of risks being taken will increase. People should give companies a reason to make gay characters, not just complain about it. Make the games you want, prove tot he industry it's possible. Seems kind of like an obvious thing to do, imo. The best thing to do, too.

But but... Then we will have to find something else to complain about. Silly you, bringing up rational solutions. We have no time for that. This is The Escapist, where we all get together and have a PC complain off.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Maybe some characters are gay, and it just wasn't told to us. What if Halo, Borderlands, Left 4 Dead or maybe Call of Duty had gay characters? We weren't exactly told some of them were straight, so it's a possibility they aren't. We just think that being straight is the default preference (which I say is a completely okay thing to think by the way) so we automatically apply that to characters in video games.

I'd be okay with a gay main character, as long I don't get blatant parts of the game solely about his/her homosexuality that feel like the developers are saying: HEY GUYS THIS CHARACTER IS GAY! GAY I TELL YOU! The character simply being implied he's/she's gay is enough, like Bill from The Last of Us:

He is not "a gay character"; he is a character who so happens to be gay.

yep, just like on "teh internetz" anyone is a male by default unless otherwise said.

(not really, but alot of people just default it in that manner.)

I don't mind gay characters, as long as that isn't their main gig. Do you see straight characters going around "HAHAHAHA LOOK HOW STRAIGHT I AM, I ONLY LIKE THE OPPOSITE SEX AND THAT IS IT! STRAIGHT FOR ME, ME IS STRAIGHTTTT!"

(if you do, then i have no idea what games you are playing.)

 

[Arkaijn]

Last 10 games I played were XCOM, Ghost Recon, GTA IV, Saints Row 2, Fallout 3, Spartan Assault, State of Decay, Ass Creed III, Borderlands 2 and Forza 3.

Think the only game in that list to feature a confirmed heterosexual male protagonist is GTA4, I know Connor from AC3 has a descendant but that could have been a weird college straight phase for all we know.

Developers of late have been great at creating generic characters with undefined personalities that lets the player fill out the blanks.

 

[thom_cat_]

I don't really see the reason, I don't put sexuality into any of the games I play or make.
I'm making a top down noir shooter, the main character is a guy because mobsters and police were guys back then. What sexuality is he? God knows.
I'm making a game about round, bouncy lumberjacks... they are guys because well, lumberjacks tend to be guys and the "manly" stereotype that comes with them needs to be exploited to get the whole joke working. What's their sexuality? I don't know? It doesn't matter to me.
All the games I have installed I don't think the gender of the character is mentioned or implied apart from Hotline Miami.
Seriously, as a developer I probably wouldn't make a gay character just because I'm not gay. I'd probably not even make a character with an explicit sexuality because I'm not interested in making relationships in games. I think the same goes for lack of females in games. I'd only really make my character a gender if the game really called for it, and even if I did I'd probably stay with male just for the reason that I am one. I am a guy, I think from a guy's perspective.

Saying "if you want to see blah you should make it yourself" is a bit silly, because there are sexist and homophobic things in every industry, whether it be hiring or publishing (game specific), there are probably problems. But I don't think the blame is on the developer, the developer tends to make what inspires them and how ideas flow.
If you're going "maybe I should put a gay character in my game?" then you're probably doing it wrong.

 

[ninjaRiv]

But but... Then we will have to find something else to complain about. Silly you, bringing up rational solutions. We have no time for that. This is The Escapist, where we all get together and have a PC complain off.

You've stumbled upon my master plan... TO SILENCE THE INTERNET!!! Except for the porn.

... Why SHOULD they make games with gay protagonists? Financially, it's a risk and not a needed one. Honestly, if people want to see more gay protagonists, they should go make one. Same with female characters.

That's the problem,the game industry should take more risks and start pushing boundaries instead of playing it safe all the time.Why should straight people be catered to all the time while gays and other minorities are told "If you want gay,black,asian,spanish,or transgender characters that they should make them"?

Why can't the straight white audience let other people have games that cater to them without bitching about it?

But the industry has no reason to take those risks at all. If they keep doing what they're doing, they keep their current audience. If they take that risk, they lose a few. Why would they take that chance? Why SHOULD they take that chance? There is no need for them to risk their money.

But if new developers start making games with gay protagonists, games that sell well, they'll take the risk. Or chances of risks being taken will increase. People should give companies a reason to make gay characters, not just complain about it. Make the games you want, prove tot he industry it's possible. Seems kind of like an obvious thing to do, imo. The best thing to do, too.

I don't believe everyone is such a bigot that they would stop buying games if a character was gay or black,Bioware is of the few developers who are constantly taking risks by representing minorities and I wish the rest of the game industry did the same.Not taking risks means everything starts to stagnate and I'm sure everyone does'nt want that.

I didn't say everyone's a bigot and would stop playing a game if they find out the character's gay. But there are plenty of those bigots on life and they all represent a loss to the company. And we know how loud bigots can be, too so that's a lot of unwanted attention. But if, say, you go out and make a game tih a well rounded gay character with a fantastic plot and great gameplay AND it sells well, things will change.

Yeah, I know Bioware are doing great with this. And that's a good start.

 

[Soundwave]

Link and Mario - This one is easy. When have either of these character rescued a prince? Hetero norm.

In Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, Mario and Luigi rescue a "Prince Peasley" from the evil witch "Cackletta". Luigi falls in love(or is at least infatuated) with Prince Peasley upon seeing him for the first time.

 

[ninjaRiv]

... Why SHOULD they make games with gay protagonists? Financially, it's a risk and not a needed one. Honestly, if people want to see more gay protagonists, they should go make one. Same with female characters.

That's the problem,the game industry should take more risks and start pushing boundaries instead of playing it safe all the time.Why should straight people be catered to all the time while gays and other minorities are told "If you want gay,black,asian,spanish,or transgender characters that they should make them"?

Why can't the straight white audience let other people have games that cater to them without bitching about it?

But the industry has no reason to take those risks at all. If they keep doing what they're doing, they keep their current audience. If they take that risk, they lose a few. Why would they take that chance? Why SHOULD they take that chance? There is no need for them to risk their money.

But if new developers start making games with gay protagonists, games that sell well, they'll take the risk. Or chances of risks being taken will increase. People should give companies a reason to make gay characters, not just complain about it. Make the games you want, prove tot he industry it's possible. Seems kind of like an obvious thing to do, imo. The best thing to do, too.

But but... Then we will have to find something else to complain about. Silly you, bringing up rational solutions. We have no time for that. This is The Escapist, where we all get together and have a PC complain off.

Why is it PC when someone wants better representation for minority groups in games,movies,books but if it's the white,straight crowd that gets catered to it's not PC?That word gets misused alot by peopl who always ***** when a group other than them are catered to.

I think he meant PC as in the computer.

I think. That's what I took it to mean.

 

[ninjaRiv]

But but... Then we will have to find something else to complain about. Silly you, bringing up rational solutions. We have no time for that. This is The Escapist, where we all get together and have a PC complain off.

You've stumbled upon my master plan... TO SILENCE THE INTERNET!!! Except for the porn.

... Why SHOULD they make games with gay protagonists? Financially, it's a risk and not a needed one. Honestly, if people want to see more gay protagonists, they should go make one. Same with female characters.

That's the problem,the game industry should take more risks and start pushing boundaries instead of playing it safe all the time.Why should straight people be catered to all the time while gays and other minorities are told "If you want gay,black,asian,spanish,or transgender characters that they should make them"?

Why can't the straight white audience let other people have games that cater to them without bitching about it?

But the industry has no reason to take those risks at all. If they keep doing what they're doing, they keep their current audience. If they take that risk, they lose a few. Why would they take that chance? Why SHOULD they take that chance? There is no need for them to risk their money.

But if new developers start making games with gay protagonists, games that sell well, they'll take the risk. Or chances of risks being taken will increase. People should give companies a reason to make gay characters, not just complain about it. Make the games you want, prove tot he industry it's possible. Seems kind of like an obvious thing to do, imo. The best thing to do, too.

I don't believe everyone is such a bigot that they would stop buying games if a character was gay or black,Bioware is of the few developers who are constantly taking risks by representing minorities and I wish the rest of the game industry did the same.Not taking risks means everything starts to stagnate and I'm sure everyone does'nt want that.

I didn't say everyone's a bigot and would stop playing a game if they find out the character's gay. But there are plenty of those bigots on life and they all represent a loss to the company. And we know how loud bigots can be, too so that's a lot of unwanted attention. But if, say, you go out and make a game tih a well rounded gay character with a fantastic plot and great gameplay AND it sells well, things will change.

Yeah, I know Bioware are doing great with this. And that's a good start.

Personally I would do what Bioware did and tell those bigots to deal with it.Why should developers be afraid of pushing limits because of people like that?

I agree with you, bigots should be told where to shove it. But money talks a lot louder than fairness. If Call of Duty had gay leads in their best selling games, I'm pretty sure we'd be neck deep in grimy war shooters with gay characters.

 

[ninjaRiv]

I think he was talking about political correctness which has become a buzzword for bigots to whine about how they are'nt allowed to be bigots without being derided for it.

Yeah, it DOES seem like the most likely version, now that you mention it. But I'm an optimistic fella!

 

[jehk]

Okay i'm a son of a ***** for being straight. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that the world cators to my needs in video games, tv, and movies.
Only I'm not. See when your really sorry your apologizing for something you intend to stop doing.

And honestly there is nothing I can do to give away these privileges. Nor would I even if i had 100s of people trying to shame me out of them. Why can't everyone say this who thinks it?

No one is asking you to give away privileges. Privilege and equality aren't zero sum. Women (and other minority groups) can have the same privileges across gaming as men do.

The best thing you could do is not act like a jerk. Instead of coming up with excuses like "Business is business" you could say "yes, you should enjoy the same privileges I do."

EDIT: Whoops. Screwed up the quote.

 

[Da Orky Man]

Dear games industry, y u no gay characters in games?

I mean, I remember in Bully it was kinda cool that you could kiss the boys as well as the girls. Even though it sucked that you still had to give them gifts, even though you didn't with the girls if you leveled up. And it doesn't seem to have evolved past that in the last 7 years. With the portrayals of romance and relationships I can relate to being relegated to at best some kind of token afterthought to a system already in place. It just seems to be a cop out more than anything else.

I think that the gaming community mostly wouldn't mind a gay hero. No one really batted an eye at Bully, or Skyrim, or Mass Effect or anything like that. So why not give it a try games industry, y u no do that?

Simple, marketing. In a situation where you have a set storyline and character, like like most non-RPG games, having a homosexual main character will make a certain percentage of their customers somewhat uncomfortable, and in some areas of the world (Saudi, UAE, basically anywhere with high religiosity) the game may well be banned. Hell, even in the US you'd get stores refusing to carry it and various 'concerned mothers' organisations ranting against it. You get that kind of thing where being gay is only an option, see the reactions to Mass Effect, Skyrim and Bully.
Until the amount of customers lost by making the main character gay is near-negligible, basically all protagonists in set-story games will be straight.

 

[Verlander]

I want the protagonist in COD to be gay, just to see the 12 year old denial rage that'd ensue.

Seriously though, very few films or books have gay protagonists, yet have a far larger gay audiences. Reason being, most people can get over it. More people are straight than gay, and while the industry could do with stronger female, gay, old or other assorted minorities as their protagonist, it'll never be so prevalent that it'll crossover into the AAA releases in any meaningful way. Jus' the way it is. Brutal world, etc

 

[Aramis Night]

... Why SHOULD they make games with gay protagonists? Financially, it's a risk and not a needed one. Honestly, if people want to see more gay protagonists, they should go make one. Same with female characters.

That's the problem,the game industry should take more risks and start pushing boundaries instead of playing it safe all the time.Why should straight people be catered to all the time while gays and other minorities are told "If you want gay,black,asian,spanish,or transgender characters that they should make them"?

Why can't the straight white audience let other people have games that cater to them without bitching about it?

But the industry has no reason to take those risks at all. If they keep doing what they're doing, they keep their current audience. If they take that risk, they lose a few. Why would they take that chance? Why SHOULD they take that chance? There is no need for them to risk their money.

But if new developers start making games with gay protagonists, games that sell well, they'll take the risk. Or chances of risks being taken will increase. People should give companies a reason to make gay characters, not just complain about it. Make the games you want, prove tot he industry it's possible. Seems kind of like an obvious thing to do, imo. The best thing to do, too.

But but... Then we will have to find something else to complain about. Silly you, bringing up rational solutions. We have no time for that. This is The Escapist, where we all get together and have a PC complain off.

Why is it PC when someone wants better representation for minority groups in games,movies,books but if it's the white,straight crowd that gets catered to it's not PC?That word gets misused alot by people who always ***** when a group other than them are catered to.

PC=Politically Correct. I don't see a lot of room for misuse in the definition. It is politically correct to cater to minorities. What it isn't is a proven sound business strategy as of yet, or this conversation wouldn't be happening. I have no complaints about a developer choosing to make a game that focuses on the situations of minorities. I do have a problem with minorities expecting other people to give them things just because they complain, but are themselves unwilling to invest or put in the effort themselves. If that makes me a bigot, so be it. I just can't respect that.

 

[Shingro]

Is it strange to anyone else how games are the only place where no one sees anything weird about telling artists what they should and shouldn't make? No? Just me?

 

[VodkaKnight]

I'd like a Bi, Gay, or Lesbian character in a game that isn't a love interest.
That'd be nice.

 

[Abomination]

PC=Politically Correct. I don't see a lot of room for misuse in the definition. It is politically correct to cater to minorities. What it isn't is a proven sound business strategy as of yet, or this conversation wouldn't be happening. I have no complaints about a developer choosing to make a game that focuses on the situations of minorities. I do have a problem with minorities expecting other people to give them things just because they complain, but are themselves unwilling to invest or put in the effort themselves. If that makes me a bigot, so be it. I just can't respect that.

It is not bigoted at all. When a "niche" group wants something that caters to that niche they should show to someone who could provide the commodity that there is a viable market.

Stamping feet and yelling "I wish I wish I wish I wish" isn't going to make it happen. The gaming industry isn't anyone's genie.

I'm really put off by the phrase "The gaming industry SHOULD make more games with gay PCs" because in the real world "should" has nothing to do with it. The gaming companies WILL make what they think will sell. At the moment, gay protagonists are not a selling point.