Hipsters? In my nerdery?

[Secondhand Revenant]

Hell, a large part of nerdom was shunned for the things they like and now they're shunned because they were apprehensive over the things they love becoming popular and bringing in the EXACT same type of people that threw their action figures against the school walls and made fun of their shirts.

The same type of people is it? Maybe that's where the well deserved animosity is from. Judging people based on utterly superficial traits and assuming they are the same. Assuming that they could not have been interested before. A bunch of whining about their past doesn't excuse their actions towards people they never met before in the least. It's a childish way of thinking and adults that act immaturely like that get well deserved scorn.

Then of course there's the "pretty" factor in that there's actually universally attractive "nerds" now that weren't shamed for their looks. There's alot of resentment from old-schoolers, because not only were they brow-beaten as kids, they're now being brow-beaten as adults in the things they took solace in. And they're being told to accept unconditionally, something that wasn't extended to them for most of their lives in the fandoms.

Oh boo fucking hoo. If they can't grow up and recognize the difference between people from their past and new people and carry a chip on their shoulder over it then they're a bunch of children. I don't see why decent people should tolerate others stubbornly clinging to having the emotional maturity of a tomato.

 

[RaikuFA]

if you actually happen to be socially awkward and not very attractive, it also tells you that it's okay to be those things and that there's a group of people out there who will accept you despite that.

Except it doesn't say that. It sets up a wall around "real nerds" and nothing else. It says nothing about acceptance (and honestly, nerd comm unity can be more exclusive and cliquey than the dreaded "jocks").

The irony, though, is that it exemplifies hipster" behavour.

Doesn't it, though? Yeah, it sets up a wall around "real nerds" but the people that are included in that walled area often exhibit traits that are usually seen as much more severe drawbacks in wider society than they are within that specific circle. You are probably less likely to be made the butt of a joke about being overweight and socially awkward by the members of your shitty high-school Star Trek fanclub than you are in your regular classes (as long as you're a white, straight dude, at least). I'm not saying nerd "culture" is more accepting than society at large (far from it!) I'm just saying that they're accepting of different things, which can lead to it feeling like a safe haven for a subset of people who don't fit in with the rest of the world but do fit in with the nerd crowd. Nerd subculture might not be better than other subcultures, but at least it's about you (some you out there, at least) and people generally enjoy stuff being about or for them.
Is it silly, selfish and does it make gatekeeping okay? Yes, yes and no, obviously. However, it does make a bit of subjective sense of the resistance to opening the hobby up to everybody (meaning cool people/people I disagree with)

If we can all agree that it's shitty, maybe we can just stop at that and leave the rest of the post-modernist equivocation for a topic that deserves more thought?

HIIIIIIPPSSSSSTTTTEEEEEERRRRRSSSSS!!! RAGE!!! SMASH!!! DESTROY!!!

*ahem* Sorry about that. I really hate hipsters. But I'll say what I said about "fake nerd girls": let them do what they want. They'll fuck up eventuality. Let the gatekeeping come naturally. Hipsters already do gatekeeping with music (part of why I made that music thread.) Don't stoop to their level.

No, it's just that everyone is already through the gate now, and the gatekeepers are alone in a crowd. I feel badly for them, but they're the ones who were NOT unfairly treated like social outcasts.

It's not about your skin, or your hobbies, or your friends. It's about shit like thinking "Nerd" means anything special and that you have a right to watch people like hawks for a fuckup. Nitpicking is the dark, ugly side of nerds everywhere.

Nitpicking/gatekeeping happens in every culture. As I mentioned, music culture does it too. IMO even worse.

 

[Redryhno]

Hell, a large part of nerdom was shunned for the things they like and now they're shunned because they were apprehensive over the things they love becoming popular and bringing in the EXACT same type of people that threw their action figures against the school walls and made fun of their shirts.

The same type of people is it? Maybe that's where the well deserved animosity is from. Judging people based on utterly superficial traits and assuming they are the same. Assuming that they could not have been interested before. A bunch of whining about their past doesn't excuse their actions towards people they never met before in the least. It's a childish way of thinking and adults that act immaturely like that get well deserved scorn.

Then of course there's the "pretty" factor in that there's actually universally attractive "nerds" now that weren't shamed for their looks. There's alot of resentment from old-schoolers, because not only were they brow-beaten as kids, they're now being brow-beaten as adults in the things they took solace in. And they're being told to accept unconditionally, something that wasn't extended to them for most of their lives in the fandoms.

Oh boo fucking hoo. If they can't grow up and recognize the difference between people from their past and new people and carry a chip on their shoulder over it then they're a bunch of children. I don't see why decent people should tolerate others stubbornly clinging to having the emotional maturity of a tomato.

My point was that people are all superficial shits to some degree or another, and when someone gets judged for superficial crap for a large part of their life, quit throwing a fit when that person starts doing some of the same stuff. Let them have their corner and grumble under their breath, they'll either change their minds, or they won't. Don't bother them, they probably won't bother you.

Hell, if they don't act like they know better than them when they really don't and they'll probably be quite a bit more amicable. That's pretty much all my post was talking about. I think you read far too much that you wanted there buddy.

 

[EternallyBored]

Saying "nerd culture" is like saying "****** culture".

So true. Those words work in a surprisingly similar fashion. Call a friend or someone who shares your hobby a "nerd" and he'll nod and laugh, but if don't fit the nerd label, and you call someone a "nerd" expect to get into a fight, or at least an argument.

Haha where the hell do you live that calling someone a nerd will get you into a fight? Nowadays someone would be more likely to think of it as a largely neutral descriptor, I've called strangers or recent acquaintances nerd or nerdy before, not a fight or argument among those instances, several have taken it as a compliment within the last couple years.

Jesus, even when I was a kid and nerd was largely seen as a negative descriptor it was still never considered fight worthy, or even that serious of an insult, and I grew up in a lot of those social circles, i.e. sci-fi, tabletop games, comics, and early video games. I don't think I've ever even got into a verbal argument over the word beyond usual schoolyard insults friends yelled at each other, bullies tended to use far worse insults than calling someone a nerd. Calling someone a nerd was equivalent to calling someone a dork, jerk, prep, airhead, or maybe loser, none of those were anything more serious than schoolyard insults.

Even in High School and college calling someone a nerd was a weak insult at best, treating it like a serious insult would have been more likely to have those around you thinking you were an idiot using insults like a 7 year old. Pretty much any time in the 90's when I ran into the word, trying to use it as a serious insult would have gotten you mocked for acting like a lame villain from a Revenge of the Nerds movie.

Maybe the context is different outside the West Coast, but the very idea of trying to compare nerd to really any sort of racial slur is just laughable at best, I would treat being called a Cracker more seriously than someone trying to insult me by calling me a nerd. Outside of elementary school where calling someone a doodyhead could get you into a verbal argument using nerd as an insult was generally seen as something children under 10 called each other because they weren't allowed to cuss yet.

 

[Redryhno]

Hell, a large part of nerdom was shunned for the things they like and now they're shunned because they were apprehensive over the things they love becoming popular and bringing in the EXACT same type of people that threw their action figures against the school walls and made fun of their shirts.

The same type of people is it? Maybe that's where the well deserved animosity is from. Judging people based on utterly superficial traits and assuming they are the same. Assuming that they could not have been interested before. A bunch of whining about their past doesn't excuse their actions towards people they never met before in the least. It's a childish way of thinking and adults that act immaturely like that get well deserved scorn.

Then of course there's the "pretty" factor in that there's actually universally attractive "nerds" now that weren't shamed for their looks. There's alot of resentment from old-schoolers, because not only were they brow-beaten as kids, they're now being brow-beaten as adults in the things they took solace in. And they're being told to accept unconditionally, something that wasn't extended to them for most of their lives in the fandoms.

Oh boo fucking hoo. If they can't grow up and recognize the difference between people from their past and new people and carry a chip on their shoulder over it then they're a bunch of children. I don't see why decent people should tolerate others stubbornly clinging to having the emotional maturity of a tomato.

My point was that people are all superficial shits to some degree or another, and when someone gets judged for superficial crap for a large part of their life, quit throwing a fit when that person starts doing some of the same stuff. Let them have their corner and grumble under their breath, they'll either change their minds, or they won't. Don't bother them, they probably won't bother you.

Hell, if they don't act like they know better than them when they really don't and they'll probably be quite a bit more amicable. That's pretty much all my post was talking about. I think you read far too much that you wanted there buddy.

No you failed to really indict everyone as being such. You're just defending it for a bunch of people who apparently refuse to grow up and carry a chip on their shoulder like a 5 year old. I loathe jackasses who try to excuse their behavior because someone was mean to them in the past. It's the height of childish behavior, I despise intellectual laziness like that. And their corner apparently encompasses more than just themselves so if they fuck off to a desert island, cool, but that doesn't seem to be what they do or we wouldn't encounter them

No I'm reading your lame excuses for their behavior aside from that stuff about not knowing better. If it were just the not knowing better junk I'd roll my eyes and not bother to reply, simply disagreeing with your assessment of the problem. I responded because I don't care for the BS excuses for some people being emotionally retarded and acting like 5 year olds, holding grudges against people who did nothing.

Ok...if you say that's what I'm doing, that must be what I"m doing, because as you know, someone saying that's not what they're doing means they must be doing exactly what someone else says they're doing.

Toodle pip.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Hell, a large part of nerdom was shunned for the things they like and now they're shunned because they were apprehensive over the things they love becoming popular and bringing in the EXACT same type of people that threw their action figures against the school walls and made fun of their shirts.

The same type of people is it? Maybe that's where the well deserved animosity is from. Judging people based on utterly superficial traits and assuming they are the same. Assuming that they could not have been interested before. A bunch of whining about their past doesn't excuse their actions towards people they never met before in the least. It's a childish way of thinking and adults that act immaturely like that get well deserved scorn.

Then of course there's the "pretty" factor in that there's actually universally attractive "nerds" now that weren't shamed for their looks. There's alot of resentment from old-schoolers, because not only were they brow-beaten as kids, they're now being brow-beaten as adults in the things they took solace in. And they're being told to accept unconditionally, something that wasn't extended to them for most of their lives in the fandoms.

Oh boo fucking hoo. If they can't grow up and recognize the difference between people from their past and new people and carry a chip on their shoulder over it then they're a bunch of children. I don't see why decent people should tolerate others stubbornly clinging to having the emotional maturity of a tomato.

My point was that people are all superficial shits to some degree or another, and when someone gets judged for superficial crap for a large part of their life, quit throwing a fit when that person starts doing some of the same stuff. Let them have their corner and grumble under their breath, they'll either change their minds, or they won't. Don't bother them, they probably won't bother you.

Hell, if they don't act like they know better than them when they really don't and they'll probably be quite a bit more amicable. That's pretty much all my post was talking about. I think you read far too much that you wanted there buddy.

No you failed to really indict everyone as being such. You're just defending it for a bunch of people who apparently refuse to grow up and carry a chip on their shoulder like a 5 year old. I loathe jackasses who try to excuse their behavior because someone was mean to them in the past. It's the height of childish behavior, I despise intellectual laziness like that. And their corner apparently encompasses more than just themselves so if they fuck off to a desert island, cool, but that doesn't seem to be what they do or we wouldn't encounter them

No I'm reading your lame excuses for their behavior aside from that stuff about not knowing better. If it were just the not knowing better junk I'd roll my eyes and not bother to reply, simply disagreeing with your assessment of the problem. I responded because I don't care for the BS excuses for some people being emotionally retarded and acting like 5 year olds, holding grudges against people who did nothing.

Ok...if you say that's what I'm doing, that must be what I"m doing, because as you know, someone saying that's not what they're doing means they must be doing exactly what someone else says they're doing.

Toodle pip.

Yup because telling people to leave them alone isn't at all meant as a defense! Starting the pity party for the oh so emotionally damaged nerds isn't meant to try and defend them at all! "Let them have their corner" is not a defense. Really! Because you say so!

You never denied it anyways and you continued to defend them. You utterly failed to realize which part of your post mine was addressing and told me the point of your post as a whole, which I really didn't care about. I cared about the nonsense you were spouting while getting to your point.

 

[Redryhno]

Yup because telling people to leave them alone isn't at all meant as a defense! Starting the pity party for the oh so emotionally damaged nerds isn't meant to try and defend them at all! "Let them have their corner" is not a defense. Really! Because you say so!

You never denied it anyways and you continued to defend them. You utterly failed to realize which part of your post mine was addressing and told me the point of your post as a whole, which I really didn't care about. I cared about the nonsense you were spouting while getting to your point.

Dude, I think you really need to step back and calm down here a bit...because it was not meant as a defense, it was meant as advice, because if someone is grumbling and not bothering anyone beyond that, stop giving a shit, because it's a waste of time to try to "correct" them.

Hell, I was trying to give perspective and understanding, something that a certain subset of the population of the internet seriously has no care or want for if it doesn't conform to their views.

Also, I think I'm sorta done seeing your stuff show up in my box, because I don't believe I've ever had a conversation with you that didn't start out heavily confrontational and full of accusations that just kept piling up. Keep responding if you want, but know that I'm not gonna be seeing them. Also I need to go take my after-work nap. See ya around.

PS

I'm pretty sure this thread was meant as a joke that some people took far too seriously.

 

[Objectable]

I DID meet a fake nerd girl once. Turned out she was in fact an assortment of squirrels in a trenchcoat.

Those squirrels sure did know a lot about Batman, though.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Yup because telling people to leave them alone isn't at all meant as a defense! Starting the pity party for the oh so emotionally damaged nerds isn't meant to try and defend them at all! "Let them have their corner" is not a defense. Really! Because you say so!

You never denied it anyways and you continued to defend them. You utterly failed to realize which part of your post mine was addressing and told me the point of your post as a whole, which I really didn't care about. I cared about the nonsense you were spouting while getting to your point.

Dude, I think you really need to step back and calm down here a bit...because it was not meant as a defense, it was meant as advice, because if someone is grumbling and not bothering anyone beyond that, stop giving a shit, because it's a waste of time to try to "correct" them.

I'm calm. Exclamation marks are there to convey some sarcasm, to show I don't believe it in the least.

I don't believe people usually have much to say about them unless they had to interact with them. Besides if they grumble why not shoot back? Words for words. If they can't handle it they can always grow up.

Hell, I was trying to give perspective and understanding, something that a certain subset of the population of the internet seriously has no care or want for if it doesn't conform to their views.

Really. Do you honestly believe people haven't already heard that tripe about how those poor nerds suffered it first? Maybe you're too busy touting your perspective to note the alternate one. That it doesn't matter why they do that crap, it's not particularly acceptable socially and for good reason. I've heard people tell their sob story on their behalf plenty of times, it just doesn't make a difference.

Also, I think I'm sorta done seeing your stuff show up in my box, because I don't believe I've ever had a conversation with you that didn't start out heavily confrontational and full of accusations that just kept piling up. Keep responding if you want, but know that I'm not gonna be seeing them.

Well certainly no loss for me. I'm not at all finding the quality of your replies very conductive to getting to the point.

Also I need to go take my after-work nap. See ya around.

More like not

PS

I'm pretty sure this thread was meant as a joke that some people took far too seriously.

If you mean me, my reply to you is indicative of my response to what you said not to the thread itself. My first reply is for that

 

[RaikuFA]

[quote="Eclipse Dragon]Likewise, I've only very recently been introduced to the board game scene at my local comic book shop, I was not shunned for my lack of knowledge in everything board game related, they welcomed me with open arms and were more than happy to explain how to play.[/quote]

Lucky you. My experience with tabletops was nothing but misery.

 

[Johnlives]

Hipsters influencing a culture is not always a negative thing, for instance, they've been successful in helping the rebranding of "Real Ale" into "Craft Beer". Whilst in the end it's all the same stuff, and if people didn't care about the branding or how "cool" something was but simply appreciated it for what it was, the influence wouldn't be needed. Nevertheless at least now the odds of me getting a decent pint in every other pub have increased.

 

[FireAza]

Nerds have become hipsters. Their identity was based so heavily on unpopular niche things (the internet, video games, comic books) but now these things have become popular. And even worse! Popular with NORMAL people! The kind of people who teased them back in high school! In response, nerds have become hipsters, mocking people who aren't as "hardcore" as they are.

 

[Something Amyss]

Yeah, I've never understood the "OG Fan" mentality, or stating that you were a fan before something got popular some other way. I don't care, and you can be certain that the performer doesn't care. They put their song in a trailer for a video game for example, or in the game itself, and suddenly they have thousands of new fans buying their stuff. You think they give a shit how you learned of them? Hell no, they're happy for the publicity, because they want to make a living doing the stuff they love.

I imagine they might even like the "oldschool" fans less if they cop this attitude. They're the first ones to cry "sellout" and the like if the new stuff is different or even just not as good. I've seen them go so far as to harass the artist in question over this crap.

I dunno, I've just gotten over that stuff. I'm sure there was a time in my life where if you told me you didn't like something I did, I would be offended and upset. Though that might simply have been due to how you presented your issues. If you said simply "I think the show sucked, and here is why" I might've been fine. But if your comment was like "This show sucks, and anyone who is a fan of it, including you, is a panty sniffing retard, who should go back to kindergarten." Then yeah, I'm going to dish out a whole bunch of "fuck you" in response. But that's mostly because you made it personal I think, not because you hate what I love.

I dunno. In this one case, I may have been different. Because I was generally off doing my own thing until someone got in my face over it. I don't know. Maybe I had my moments and forgot them. It's nice to have people like what you like, though. It means more of it, in all probability. But I don't sweat it otherwise.

On a side note, it's got to be rough being a Brony or whatever because I see them talking so much shit online, and my first reaction is
"who cares? It's not like they're hurting anyone."

I guess that's why I find this "OMG Hipsters are the cancer of society" bullshit so laughable, and absurd. News flash, young people do silly things that they think is cool for their age. We've all done it, and we will continue to do it until humans stop existing. Calm down, take a chill pill, and just let the kids have their thing.

Yeah, somehow, society seems to endure.

Now that's not what YOU may want but who wants to argue about labels?

Not me and that's the important part c:

How else will I know if your shell is gluten free?

I DID meet a fake nerd girl once. Turned out she was in fact an assortment of squirrels in a trenchcoat.

Those squirrels sure did know a lot about Batman, though.

I never did trust squirrels.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hipsters influencing a culture is not always a negative thing, for instance, they've been successful in helping the rebranding of "Real Ale" into "Craft Beer".

i already lived in an area with a ton of that.

BEFORE IT WAS COOL!

>.>

Sorry, couldn't resist the hipster joke.

 

[DementedSheep]

I've heard "I liked it before it was cool" and taking pride in knowing obscure shit others don't more from older gamers and more...traditionally nerdy people for lack of better way to put it than someone who looks like a hipster and they usually do it while bitching about hipsters. I can't actually recall an instance of someone wearing a video game themed thing while knowing nothing about it in RL, I've only seen that done with comics. They might not have in-depth knowledge about it or have played the older games in a series but they're still a fan. You don't need to revolve your life around something to like and wear a t-shirt of it.
At least the retarded hipster hunts have died down a little. I remember seeing people getting jumped for saying anything about any games without being "expert" even when they never claimed to be huge fan in the first place, they just played some games and thought they were fun. "You made one comment on your own FB page about a game you played recently without having the require background knowledge and playing enough games to be REAL fan? well FUCK you attention whore, you aren't allowed to like that!" It would seem simply saying you played a bit of minecraft is akin to declaring yourself a gamer and god forbid you spell it wrong. Then of course there were the memes where someone takes an image of some random girl who they probably don't even know and only picked because of their clothing and labelled them "fake" or "hipster". I'm not saying hipsters like the right image don't exist at all, they do, I just don't think they're a huge issue and the reaction is far worse.

There are a number of people who go "lol I'm such a nerd" when they just play games or read a couple of comics and it's annoying in the same way people who say "literally" to mean figuratively and exaggerate (which is basically what they are doing) a lot is. It's not a big deal.

 

[Mazinger-Z]

Nerds have become hipsters. Their identity was based so heavily on unpopular niche things (the internet, video games, comic books) but now these things have become popular. And even worse! Popular with NORMAL people! The kind of people who teased them back in high school! In response, nerds have become hipsters, mocking people who aren't as "hardcore" as they are.

Nah, nerds are still nerds. Hipsters skim the surface of something that goes rather deep.

Hipsters watch Game of Thrones. Nerds read A Song of Ice and Fire before it was on TV and nitpick at the changes done to make it more palatable for a non-literary audience. I read it a few years before the TV show was announced. A friend had recommended it to me back in like... 2000. I had never gotten around to it.

Hipsters play board games, usually under an hour playtime, 2 hours max. Nerds will play Axis & Allies, a tabletop RPG or something that takes at least four hours for a satisfying session.

These aren't necessarily hard and fast rules, but the hipsters lack the bit that powers the likes of PCMR, the LARPers of White Wolf Games, the Boffers, the Warhammer players and the game completionists.

The real clash with hipsters and nerds comes from the fact that yes, hipsters in their attempts to seem niche, will latch onto the surface of nerd culture. The conflict comes from this new audience influencing or changing existing media to suit their own tastes, which kind of flies in the face of the nerd culture that it survived on before becoming mainstream.

And we've seen that in history. The bright, colorful superhero genre basically murdered the more adult, pulp comics. D&D's seen a lot of changes in response to the rise of MMOs (I haven't played 6e yet, but 5e was an attempt to streamline the game so it was like an MMO).

You see it right now with things like the animation production of The Killing Joke, where people who probably never read the original work (whether because they couldn't be bothered or because 'muh trigger warning') want to remove the part where Barbara is shot and then victimized, which was all meant home both the viciousness of the Joker and how far he was willing to push James Gordon, who was his real target.

Frankly, a lot of fans are excited for this production because despite saying he was done, Mark Hamill is returning to voice the Joker for it and Kevin Conroy (Batman: TAS, New Adventures of Batman & Robin, Justice League, etc) has expressed interest in doing it.

That the work may be altered to satisfy an audience that doesn't care about the source material is galling to the fans who supported the original work and made it an iconic, memorable piece of the Batman mythos. And yes, that does matter, because otherwise "I'm the Goddamned Batman" All Star Batman & Robin would also be considered iconic, as opposed to just sad.

 

[Redryhno]

No. Nerds are the ultimate nitpickers, and famous for it. Trekkies, Star Wars Fanatics, Brown Coats, and people who go frame by frame through every episode of 'Community' and then rage about it on their blogs and forums?

The Ultimate.

I suppose most of those I can agree on to a point, except the frame-by-frame thing of Community, seems more like a Tumblr thing, I mean, they do supposedly keep those three frame of buttcrack from Sherlock behind the shiniest environment proof glass.

Also, the ultimate what?

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I... I try not to really subscribe to the labeling mentality anyway, so this kind of flies right over my head.

You're basically either a dick or not a dick. The rest is set dressing.

 

[Something Amyss]

I can't actually recall an instance of someone wearing a video game themed thing while knowing nothing about it in RL, I've only seen that done with comics.

In fairness, if I saw a video game shirt that looked cool, I'd probably wear it whether I liked the franchise or not. I'm not even sure that should be an issue. A T-shirt is not a binding contract. So what if someone just likes the Triforce logo or whatever? People get freaking tattoos of Chinese characters or "celtic" designs because they "look cool."

And I still have trouble seeing the issue.