Hitman: Plan B

[mysecondlife]

"I'm sorry sir. The birthday cake stripper has failed as well."

"Oh well.. go with PLAN C"

capcha: baked in a pie

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

Thing is, I never gave a damn about Hitman. But that trailer got me interested - it's got same vibe as Quentin Tarantino movies. Which I love.

The only issue I have with trailer is that Agent 47 didn't take enough damage. In final scene he should have been drenched in blood, with couple of knives stuck in his back and a bullet in his gut. That would make the trailer a perfect example of trash I like to watch.
Question is, is it anything like the game? I want a preview.

 

[Dr Jones]

So it's misogynistic to kill women but mowing down legions of men in every game is ok? Fuck that person from IGN.

Good comic as usual.

I would disagree with you, but Keza doesen't actually mention that this is only specific for a Hitman game. She just says that Hitman fans probably wouldn't be the audience for that kind of violence. But I would say, that mindlessly slaughtering sexy nuns in a Hitman game is just stupid, Hitman was never about over-exaggerated sexuality.

 

[kinapuffar]

Why can't it just be that 47 attacks the nuns because they open fire on him? Why must it be that he's attacking them because they're women?
Women are people too, just like if a man opens fire on you, you're completely entitled to kill him, the same goes for women. Equality goes both ways.
Enough of the femenazi victimization tactics please.

I have no problem with 47 killing women in this trailer. The problem I have with it is how it's not the Hitman I remember or want. It's not meticulous planning and executing. It's like splinter cell or any of these other pointless games I don't like.
I'm hoping they're just pandering to the ADHD generation. Because if the game is anything like this, I'm not buying it.

Again, the problem is the women are SEXUALISED. Show me a sequences where agent 47 brutalises and kills guys wearing posing pouches and thongs, with oiled muscles and chiseled, handsome features.

How about every male character in Hitman: Blood Money?
And the slaughter king in Contracts is wearing a thong, although I think no one was really pleased about that. xD
It's no secret that the hitman games sexualize women a lot. But the places 47's targets frequent sort of demand it. These are depraved people he's killing, and it shows in the people they surround themselves with. In any place where it's not appropriate, it's not featured.
Just look at blood money and the redneck wedding, or the mardi gras mission.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Hot damn, that trailer was fucking wicked. Gotta love me some powerful, sexy peeps with guns from time to time. I may go buy a few of the better Hitman games now. I've always wanted to anyway and the story catch up should help.

I believe this is relevant:

 

[Toothache of Sauron]

«"There's no context, no mitigating circumstances - this is violence-porn, put together to look cool. Is that what people think gamers find cool? Breaking the noses of women in suspenders in slow motion? This trailer panders to violence-worship and misogynistic desires that have nothing to do with the game, and that surely don't exist in the minds of Hitman fans."»

Ok, we've seen this kind of stuff time and again, not just in videogames but also in films. But it's suddenly that now that they decide to make women the ones beat? (At least in the ad, I've not played this series nor I've watched any previous ads for this). Is that the equality between the sexes? That women can't be treated fully the same as men?

This is how much speaking of equality, but when we make a female version of a male one, it's always in the way "actually, we don't think a woman can't compare to a man". See Conan and "The red warrior". Conan fights against challenging enemies, some of whom are superior and he has to overcome adverse situations. Now in the other film, Red Sonja needs Conan to deal with any challenge for her and the only fight she can get in is against the main villain, who happens to be a villainess whose martial and magical powers are equivalent to that of limbless Tyrion Lannister's. So much for treating both sexes the same.

If the one who writes that would actually consider both sexes equal, (s)he wouldn't write that as (s)he wouldn't be writing that just because Mr Hitman's victims (wannabe murderers) happen to be women.

Now, there's only one point to think there could be a little justification to it: the leather tight outfits brothel style. If they had been men they would likely have worn something of military look?. Possibly. But I don't think it is (or rather necessarily is) a matter of if men not in Tifa's outfit without top, but more of considering the types imprint in popular imagination in the way of priest = peaceful man, nun = virgin woman. Therefore with men it would be priests that reveal under their tunic (I don't know the English for sotana) some army uniform and when they're women giving underneath the opposite to virgin - brothel worker.

I'm more against those who're fast to treat women as different in ANY way that someone who uses stereotypes or what he thinks it is in how he depicts a group of women.

 

[Ickorus]

A bad habit.

We'll be having nun of that today Mr. Carter

I Pope you are kidding, there is a literal ark filled with potential puns here.

Will this cloister-fuck ever end?

I'm a bit of a novice at puns but for a while I could come up with nun, alas, a made a vow that I would come up with one.

Like Abbots.

Spoiler: Found this whilst I was on wikipedia trying to find Nun related words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude_Nuns_with_Big_Guns

Wow.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

That may be why I don't "get it". I haven't had the pleasure to play the Hitman games myself, so I am probably more "sensitive" to the wired stuff, but can even a veteran Hitman player explain the reasons for all that?

What I mean is; 1.The ladies are assassins, why draw attention to yourself especially when your target knows (or at least believes) you're coming after him? I don't just mean the "sexy" outfits either. I mean, when was the last time you saw even just 4 young nuns all in habits?

2.From what I can tell their plan was to just blow him up before they were even seen by him, so who was the show for? What would they have done if he did die, or just ran off insted of killing them? They would just look silly.

All that said, Hitman isn't the most serious game, and yes I know this is all just for good (albeit not very clean) fun.

Captcha: baked in a pie

....Plan C?

Oh, there's no question the trailer is really stupid and pretty sleazily exploitative, I was just pointing out that 47 is famous for stripping his male enemies down to their underwear and putting on their clothes as a disguise, a mechanic which has been the butt of many jokes over the years.

The scenario portrayed in the trailer is totally out of keeping with what previous Hitman games were actually about (they're more like puzzle games about murder than action games) and the previous games would actually have docked you quite a lot of points for the actions on display here. As someone who liked the previous games, I won't be buying this one if this trailer represents it at all accurately.

I think a bigger reason I'm less sensitive to this stuff is cultural. I'm currently living in Japan and only about half of the media I consume is in English, so I'm used to male characters being sexualized to attract female viewers being as prevalent as the reverse. The English speaking world has a serious problem with pretending that female sexuality doesn't exist, an attitude maintained by groups who benefit from using that idea to shame male sexuality. Think about it: You can find a wall of pornography produced by and for women in just about any supermarket in the US, but when was the last time you heard anyone acknowledge it in a debate on pornography? Similarly, sexualized portrayals of men are consistently branded homoerotic as opposed to simply erotic, but have you ever heard anyone describe an image of lesbians in those terms? The groups who claim to be fighting this attitude are going nowhere fast because most of them have internalized the passive female/active male dichotomy into their "progressive" positions, and are thus only capable of attacking superficial manifestations of the real problem.

Honestly, I don't see that sort of thing going away until more women abandon antiquated strains of socialized sex-negativism (the modern one-sided sex-negativity which often masquerades as "sex-positive" is still sex-negativism) and publicly embrace their own sexual agency.

Well I think it may take a bit more than just a lot of women changing their minds about sex to change marketing trends. I mean women have already "changed their minds about sex" for a long time by now, and people know it. As you said; women are already making their own porn. I think the bigger issue is how nobody wants to change the "main target" in marketing even though it isn't (and for a long while hasn't been) just men looking to buy junk that isn't really needed. By that I mean even though things have and are continuing to change, people are content to keep the marketing the way it is, because hey, it still works.

Also, I did know about 47's habit of taking his enemies clothes to use as a disguise. I was just afraid to attempt to spell disguise. (I hate spelling)

Hmmm....Actually maybe that's why they sent girl assassins dressed like that.

It's not so much a case of "already" as it is one of "since widespread literacy and the emergence of entertainment media as a viable economic product". The problem is that no one wants to call pornography or sexual imagery targeted at women what they are. The result is that there are still a lot of men who believe most women are uninterested in such things and a lot of women who feel ashamed of enjoying them.

An interesting note about marketing is that, in the US, 65% of marketers are women and women account for around 70% of discretionary spending. Certain markets are slower than others, but the idea that no one is thinking of selling these things to women is flat out wrong. Even the motion picture industry, which often takes the brunt of criticism in these cases, has been producing major properties and entertainers appealing pretty much exclusively to women's sexual fantasies going back to at least the fifties. The problem is, when it comes time to talk about this stuff, everyone forgets any of that stuff ever existed. This stuff needs to be acknowledged before any real progress can be made, and women are really the only ones in a position to do that and make it stick. Of course, open debate on sexuality in the media consists almost entirely of criticizing and shaming people for it, so it's pretty easy to see why most women wouldn't want to put themselves out there for that.

I think the romantics have to take the blame for a lot of this shit. They're the ones who came forced the passive, pure, almost asexual ideal of femininity down everyone's throats. I don't think that's really been good for anyone, except the writers that made their careers on it.

I think that in this situation Occam's Razor tells us that the reason they're dressed like that is probably that the people making the trailer came up with a boring action concept and decided to throw in women in what are either stripper outfits or Halloween costumes (the two appear to be basically indistinguishable at this point) to distract people from everything else that's wrong with the trailer and get more attention. It lacks the strange almost-sincerity of a genuine exploitation film and while it doesn't make me think that the people making it hate women, it does make me think that they want to sell they're game to 14 year olds.

You know, you may have just hit the nail on the head with that last bit. Besides sexism/women hate/young teen boy fantasy, the other big complainant is that it doesn't make sense, or that it doesn't look at all like what a Hitman game should be like.

As for the "ideal of femininity", well as they say; "Time heals all wounds". Not alone, of course.

 

[SonicWaffle]

The nun outfits, as represented, are one of two things: a shtick or a disguise. If these lady assassins have some kind of gimmick, like the gangs in The Warriors do, then fine...it's stupid, but ok.

I actually quite like the idea that they're real, albeit crazy, nuns. Like there's some sort of secret order - The Sisterhood of Victoria's Secret - devoted to dressing like a really expensive hooker and offing people...for Jesus.

They wore those outfits to titillate *you*

Except that those outfits don't titillate. They're more laughable than erotic, particularly once the rocket launcher gets whipped out. You claim that all of this stuff is designed to give us an erection, but I'm of the opinion that anybody getting a boner watching this has got some serious issues. This wouldn't have even triggered that response when I was going through the unfortunate-stiffy-on-the-bus part of puberty, let alone as an adult who only gets wood on the bus because he's trying.

Who, after all, is this "eroticism" meant to appeal to? Nun fetishists? I think they probably find nuns sexier when they aren't toting machine guns. Teenage boys? They're just going to be confused as hell. Sadists? Well...I can kinda see that, what with the punching and all, but in that case there's no need for them to be nuns.

 

[maninahat]

Huh, evidently the message needs to be more overt.

[HEADING=1]IT IS NOT THAT WOMEN DIED IN THE AD, IT'S BECAUSE THEY FELT THE NEED TO SEXUALIZE THE WOMEN DYING THAT IS THE CAUSE OF CONTROVERSY!![/HEADING]

Can we stop with the fucking 'if it were men you wouldn't be angry' bullshit now? Because if it were men, then they wouldn't be being sexualized!! Which is the reason that there was a controversy!

My god I can't believe so many people can read the woman's article and completely miss the point that she made over and over again and instead make up an argument born of their own imagination and diminish it.
Can you say 'Straw man in pathetic attempt to portray wounded puppy routine'?


I've already made a massive post on this so I'll leave the link for it:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.376929-My-views-on-the-controversy-over-the-new-Hitman-trailer?page=2#14702444

I don't really need to add anything after seeing this, it is on the nose.

Tackiest ad I've seen in years. To those who point out that there are skimpy women throughout the games, I would have addressed you to a rather interesting rockpapershotgun article, had I been able to find it. Instead I'll have to summarise:

Basically, the blatant and hyper-sexualised characters in the Hitman games aren't there for titillation. Their behaviour and appearance is so exaggerated and fetishised, it comes off as grotesque rather than sexy. It serves to make you feel uncomfortable - allowing you to get into the mindset of an asexual assassin who is confused and disgusted by love and sex. Thus, it is a method of getting you into the character, without forcing the character to explain how he feels in a cutscene.

This advert drops the ball on that though. It tries to do the opposite of the games, going all out for sex appeal instead of disgust. It certainly lacks the atmosphere of the bdsm slaughter house in Hitman: Contracts [http://ui01.gamespot.com/621/haederbazooka28_2.jpg].

 

[Cory Rydell]

Nice use of the "improbable comic book female pose" Grey.

Yea that was my doing. I felt the pose and style fit well thematically with the strip and the trailer. I'm glad some people noticed

 

[Kermi]

Calling the violence in the Hitman trailer sexualised violence is a strawman argument. The initial shot of the nuns disrobing is the only sexualised part of the trailer. Once the violence begins it is no longer about their appearance. It's about explosions and gunplay, and 47's grim determination in carrying out the task of killing them. He clearly takes no pleasure in it.

People are focusing on appearances and robbing women of the right to be perceived as a threat that had to be dealt with. Switch 47 with Lara Croft and the nuns with shirtless guys with glistening, rippled abs. Does that promote rape culture? Does that sexualise violence? Hardly. I've said this before and someone counter-argued that because women are oppressed in everyday life, we can't just treat them as equals in a game. Why the fucking hell not? If games are art, and don't presume I mean this trailer is a work of art, but if games ARE art then this is exactly where such a paradigm shift would need to begin to be integrated into social conciousness.

The sexualised appearanced was, in my mind, supposed to juxtapose the violence for shock value. People have gone to great lengths to argue that the violence is sexualised and I see no evidence for this. The argument is grasping at straws in an effort to build a controversy, in a shallow attempt to head off criticism from outside the gaming media so we can say "this isn't what we are, honest!".

My problem with the trailer is that it misrepresents the actual game, or at least what I hope the game will be after seeing gameplay footage and having high expectations following Blood Money.

But the people on the sexualised violence bandwagon are too busy agreeing that the trailer promotes misogyny and rape culture, most people having read that and agreeing with it before they watched the trailer themselves.

When I first posted on Twitter I didn't have a problem with it, some random commentator criticised me and devalued my opinion because as a white male (I don't know what being white has to do with it, but anyway) my opinions come from a position of privilege.

Well my wife isn't a white male, and she equally failed to see why the trailer was problematic. Is her opinion permitted? Or have I brainwashed her by oppressing her with my all-encompassing patriarchal tyranny?

Another person argue that they were never a "threat".

Firstly, watch that trailer again. Even after he's disabled two of them the reaimder put up a good fight, getting in several hits. I believe he gets cut at one point. They have him down with a gun to his head. He barely survives, and this is a man who was bred and trained as a killer from childhood, if not from before his birth!

But there's no context, you say. The game is Hitman Absolution - while absolution is a fairly general term it is one steeped in religious values and I have always seen Hitman as having something of a Christian/Catholic bent to it, the second half of Blood Money in particular being geared towards putting 47 on a path to redemption. Why are we assuming these are just random nuns? Why aren't they representatives of a larger and very threatening organisation that's out to kill him? They might not just be assassins in a stupid disguise.

Is this a design decision that was necessary? When you're looking at something like this that is created, it's all been done deliverately. You don't accidentally get crotch shots or nipple slips in a video game. No, it was't necessary. It's not even a decision I'd have made. But let's not assume tits 'n' guns is the only thin going on here.

 

[Farther than stars]

For starters, they can get caught on things - your enemy could use them as a handhold. You're literally wearing nets, plenty of grab spots. Plus, there is simply no reason to wear them. There is no benefit. Eh don't provide warmth, or make you more slippery, or anything practical.

Yeah, I thought it might be something like that. I figured they might be lighter and allow for more flexibility, but what you said makes way more sense. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Because the Hitman series has never taken itself too seriously (I mean seriously you assassinate people as a clown at one point) it's not the nuns itself I have that much of an issue with, although they're still extremely silly. What I have an issue with is that this trailer is completely the wrong kind of 'violence worship.'

In Hitman, it's all about the coldly calculated kill. Of hatching a plan, executing it flawlessly and leaving the scene with none the wiser until the bodies are discovered long after you've slipped away. That's what Hitman is all about.

This however is just some cheesy, almost dime-a-dozen action scene appealing to the dicks of young gamers. Honestly:

​

 

[Lyri]

To counter point though, did anybody claim we're sexualizing violence with Bayonetta kicking ass in leather and stripping down with nothing but her hair to cover her modesty?
This is videogame land we're talking about, where violence is mad to look good to shift a few units.
I'm not going to start masturbating over /r/BeatingWomen because I spanked a few rubber coated nuns and garrotted them.


Give it a week or two and this will be forgotten, I for one shall be starting that process now by ignoring the fact this article exists and the existence of the IGN writer.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

Also of note were 47 a woman taking out six men in tuxedos would this have garnered the same unnecessary amount of analysis?
I think not I think it would probably be heralded for games "breaking stereotypes,empowering women"etc etc

Six men in tuxedos isn't an apt comparison.

Rather picture eight guys who look like they walked right out of the cast of Jersey Shore, or a Calvin Klein and Abercrombie and Fitch ad.

Spoiler: To give you a better picture. Possibly NSFW

Now they're all wearing Catholic Priest attire. Suddenly they strip off their robes leaving only their collars revealing their bare tan bodies covered only by the very tactical outfits of jock straps, speedos, chaps, bondage straps, thongs, and such.

You're damn right people will make a fuss.

Thing is, an ad like that will never be made but it's just as stupid.

And you're right that ads are supposed to grab people's attention. But someone who worked in marketing told me they should also give the consumer a general sense of the product and if it's a game demonstrate mechanics and teach you how to play the game. (Batman: Arkham City's CG trailer demonstrated how to use the freeflow combat and stealth as well as the new smoke pellets. Assassin's Creed showed off free running. Left 4 Dead's intro showed off smoke bombs, assists, Tanks using cars and etc...)

If I had known nothing of Hitman before I would think the game was a non stop hack and slash shoot em up filled with ridiculous over the top characters that belong in a fighting game or JRPG.

 

[Something Amyss]

To counter point though, did anybody claim we're sexualizing violence with Bayonetta kicking ass in leather and stripping down with nothing but her hair to cover her modesty?

Uhhh, yes. Yes they did. And people screamed like howler monkeys because "THEIRS NO SEXIZM IN GAMIN!!!!!!!!11!!11!!!11one"

Or they claimed empowerment, as has already been referenced in this thread.

 

[reachforthesky]

Is anyone else worried that they're going to go from sprawling levels that reward exploration and thoughtfulness to a linear sequence of scripted events? Or that they're going to replace the current stealth system that relies on staying incognito, securing disguises, and tactically deciding when and whether to kill someone in addition to actually sneaking around with a game based entirely on the latter? The gameplay video made me nervous...

 

[rbstewart7263]

Also of note were 47 a woman taking out six men in tuxedos would this have garnered the same unnecessary amount of analysis?
I think not I think it would probably be heralded for games "breaking stereotypes,empowering women"etc etc

Six men in tuxedos isn't an apt comparison.

Rather picture eight guys who look like they walked right out of the cast of Jersey Shore, or a Calvin Klein and Abercrombie and Fitch ad.

Spoiler: To give you a better picture. Possibly NSFW

Now they're all wearing Catholic Priest attire. Suddenly they strip off their robes leaving only their collars revealing their bare tan bodies covered only by the very tactical outfits of jock straps, speedos, chaps, bondage straps, thongs, and such.

You're damn right people will make a fuss.

Thing is, an ad like that will never be made but it's just as stupid.

And you're right that ads are supposed to grab people's attention. But someone who worked in marketing told me they should also give the consumer a general sense of the product and if it's a game demonstrate mechanics and teach you how to play the game. (Batman: Arkham City's CG trailer demonstrated how to use the freeflow combat and stealth as well as the new smoke pellets. Assassin's Creed showed off free running. Left 4 Dead's intro showed off smoke bombs, assists, Tanks using cars and etc...)

If I had known nothing of Hitman before I would think the game was a non stop hack and slash shoot em up filled with ridiculous over the top characters that belong in a fighting game or JRPG.

Fair enough reguarding that the trailer doesnt show off the stealth mechanics. the hitman games always gave you a choice and i believe run and gun was an option. Ill merit that the trailer is perhaps lacking(I liked it) but then Im not gonna see it as cause to worry over the game the footage thats been released so far looks good. Sure the person who buys the game based off the trailer will have a bit of system shock but i mean its not a warcrime he will either figure it out or not such is life.

Also its important to note that different types of sexualization impower or disempower a person or character. in this case the women were sexy. damned sexy but they carried it well and there was enough mystery that were they to walk into a party there would be enough to keep me interested.

People think the tux is not an apt description but for men thongs and such are disempowering they reveal too much.(In the same manner as a thong an bra shows so much as to make some men lose interest.) some leather outfits bdsm style would also be an apt comparison it leaves enough to the imagination to keep the person intrigued.

Another reason why the tux is the mans opposite to the womans leather top and skirt is the way that clothing compliments a given persons shape. a man such as 47 is square in shoulders and waste so a tux better compliments these features the womans too if you will notice also compliments well those circular features without being too revealing.

As far as the arguement goes I think that it needs to be decided that being attractive or somewhat revealing or sexual does not sell you out to the evil men of the world its what you do with it and how you use it. I think that alot of feminists seem to be confused on this matter a woman of sexual presence and dominance can rule and control, a room full of men if she sees fit too. No its not fair to insist one view as the only view and to disregard those expressions that others choose a woman should not feel like a sellout for wanting to look sexy or revealing.

You know it is her body and all.

Also does this arguement of female disempowerment through the amount of skin you show not ring similar to that of a strict religious mindset such as a catholic or mormon might have?? Strange as most feminists ive met seem eager to get a away from the church and its male dominant mindset.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Is anyone else worried that they're going to go from sprawling levels that reward exploration and thoughtfulness to a linear sequence of scripted events? Or that they're going to replace the current stealth system that relies on staying incognito, securing disguises, and tactically deciding when and whether to kill someone in addition to actually sneaking around with a game based entirely on the latter? The gameplay video made me nervous...

The video did not worry me i dont expect my trailers to be one to one shows of gameplay or gameplay footage.

The gameplay footage we have seen has me a wee bit worried but the mechanics look tighter.