I'm a bit of a novice at puns but for a while I could come up with nun, alas, a made a vow that I would come up with one.Paradoxrifts said:
Like Abbots.
Hitman: Plan B
- Thread starter The Wooster
- Start date
Like Abbots.
You know, you may have just hit the nail on the head with that last bit. Besides sexism/women hate/young teen boy fantasy, the other big complainant is that it doesn't make sense, or that it doesn't look at all like what a Hitman game should be like.OtherSideofSky said:
As for the "ideal of femininity", well as they say; "Time heals all wounds". Not alone, of course.
I actually quite like the idea that they're real, albeit crazy, nuns. Like there's some sort of secret order - The Sisterhood of Victoria's Secret - devoted to dressing like a really expensive hooker and offing people...for Jesus.Susan Arendt said:
Except that those outfits don't titillate. They're more laughable than erotic, particularly once the rocket launcher gets whipped out. You claim that all of this stuff is designed to give us an erection, but I'm of the opinion that anybody getting a boner watching this has got some serious issues. This wouldn't have even triggered that response when I was going through the unfortunate-stiffy-on-the-bus part of puberty, let alone as an adult who only gets wood on the bus because he's trying.itsthesheppy said:
Who, after all, is this "eroticism" meant to appeal to? Nun fetishists? I think they probably find nuns sexier when they aren't toting machine guns. Teenage boys? They're just going to be confused as hell. Sadists? Well...I can kinda see that, what with the punching and all, but in that case there's no need for them to be nuns.
I don't really need to add anything after seeing this, it is on the nose.Vrex360 said:
Tackiest ad I've seen in years. To those who point out that there are skimpy women throughout the games, I would have addressed you to a rather interesting rockpapershotgun article, had I been able to find it. Instead I'll have to summarise:
Basically, the blatant and hyper-sexualised characters in the Hitman games aren't there for titillation. Their behaviour and appearance is so exaggerated and fetishised, it comes off as grotesque rather than sexy. It serves to make you feel uncomfortable - allowing you to get into the mindset of an asexual assassin who is confused and disgusted by love and sex. Thus, it is a method of getting you into the character, without forcing the character to explain how he feels in a cutscene.
This advert drops the ball on that though. It tries to do the opposite of the games, going all out for sex appeal instead of disgust. It certainly lacks the atmosphere of the bdsm slaughter house in Hitman: Contracts [http://ui01.gamespot.com/621/haederbazooka28_2.jpg].
Yea that was my doing. I felt the pose and style fit well thematically with the strip and the trailer. I'm glad some people noticedEric the Orange said:
Calling the violence in the Hitman trailer sexualised violence is a strawman argument. The initial shot of the nuns disrobing is the only sexualised part of the trailer. Once the violence begins it is no longer about their appearance. It's about explosions and gunplay, and 47's grim determination in carrying out the task of killing them. He clearly takes no pleasure in it.
People are focusing on appearances and robbing women of the right to be perceived as a threat that had to be dealt with. Switch 47 with Lara Croft and the nuns with shirtless guys with glistening, rippled abs. Does that promote rape culture? Does that sexualise violence? Hardly. I've said this before and someone counter-argued that because women are oppressed in everyday life, we can't just treat them as equals in a game. Why the fucking hell not? If games are art, and don't presume I mean this trailer is a work of art, but if games ARE art then this is exactly where such a paradigm shift would need to begin to be integrated into social conciousness.
The sexualised appearanced was, in my mind, supposed to juxtapose the violence for shock value. People have gone to great lengths to argue that the violence is sexualised and I see no evidence for this. The argument is grasping at straws in an effort to build a controversy, in a shallow attempt to head off criticism from outside the gaming media so we can say "this isn't what we are, honest!".
My problem with the trailer is that it misrepresents the actual game, or at least what I hope the game will be after seeing gameplay footage and having high expectations following Blood Money.
But the people on the sexualised violence bandwagon are too busy agreeing that the trailer promotes misogyny and rape culture, most people having read that and agreeing with it before they watched the trailer themselves.
When I first posted on Twitter I didn't have a problem with it, some random commentator criticised me and devalued my opinion because as a white male (I don't know what being white has to do with it, but anyway) my opinions come from a position of privilege.
Well my wife isn't a white male, and she equally failed to see why the trailer was problematic. Is her opinion permitted? Or have I brainwashed her by oppressing her with my all-encompassing patriarchal tyranny?
Another person argue that they were never a "threat".
Firstly, watch that trailer again. Even after he's disabled two of them the reaimder put up a good fight, getting in several hits. I believe he gets cut at one point. They have him down with a gun to his head. He barely survives, and this is a man who was bred and trained as a killer from childhood, if not from before his birth!
But there's no context, you say. The game is Hitman Absolution - while absolution is a fairly general term it is one steeped in religious values and I have always seen Hitman as having something of a Christian/Catholic bent to it, the second half of Blood Money in particular being geared towards putting 47 on a path to redemption. Why are we assuming these are just random nuns? Why aren't they representatives of a larger and very threatening organisation that's out to kill him? They might not just be assassins in a stupid disguise.
Is this a design decision that was necessary? When you're looking at something like this that is created, it's all been done deliverately. You don't accidentally get crotch shots or nipple slips in a video game. No, it was't necessary. It's not even a decision I'd have made. But let's not assume tits 'n' guns is the only thin going on here.
People are focusing on appearances and robbing women of the right to be perceived as a threat that had to be dealt with. Switch 47 with Lara Croft and the nuns with shirtless guys with glistening, rippled abs. Does that promote rape culture? Does that sexualise violence? Hardly. I've said this before and someone counter-argued that because women are oppressed in everyday life, we can't just treat them as equals in a game. Why the fucking hell not? If games are art, and don't presume I mean this trailer is a work of art, but if games ARE art then this is exactly where such a paradigm shift would need to begin to be integrated into social conciousness.
The sexualised appearanced was, in my mind, supposed to juxtapose the violence for shock value. People have gone to great lengths to argue that the violence is sexualised and I see no evidence for this. The argument is grasping at straws in an effort to build a controversy, in a shallow attempt to head off criticism from outside the gaming media so we can say "this isn't what we are, honest!".
My problem with the trailer is that it misrepresents the actual game, or at least what I hope the game will be after seeing gameplay footage and having high expectations following Blood Money.
But the people on the sexualised violence bandwagon are too busy agreeing that the trailer promotes misogyny and rape culture, most people having read that and agreeing with it before they watched the trailer themselves.
When I first posted on Twitter I didn't have a problem with it, some random commentator criticised me and devalued my opinion because as a white male (I don't know what being white has to do with it, but anyway) my opinions come from a position of privilege.
Well my wife isn't a white male, and she equally failed to see why the trailer was problematic. Is her opinion permitted? Or have I brainwashed her by oppressing her with my all-encompassing patriarchal tyranny?
Another person argue that they were never a "threat".
Firstly, watch that trailer again. Even after he's disabled two of them the reaimder put up a good fight, getting in several hits. I believe he gets cut at one point. They have him down with a gun to his head. He barely survives, and this is a man who was bred and trained as a killer from childhood, if not from before his birth!
But there's no context, you say. The game is Hitman Absolution - while absolution is a fairly general term it is one steeped in religious values and I have always seen Hitman as having something of a Christian/Catholic bent to it, the second half of Blood Money in particular being geared towards putting 47 on a path to redemption. Why are we assuming these are just random nuns? Why aren't they representatives of a larger and very threatening organisation that's out to kill him? They might not just be assassins in a stupid disguise.
Is this a design decision that was necessary? When you're looking at something like this that is created, it's all been done deliverately. You don't accidentally get crotch shots or nipple slips in a video game. No, it was't necessary. It's not even a decision I'd have made. But let's not assume tits 'n' guns is the only thin going on here.
Yeah, I thought it might be something like that. I figured they might be lighter and allow for more flexibility, but what you said makes way more sense. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.Susan Arendt said:
Because the Hitman series has never taken itself too seriously (I mean seriously you assassinate people as a clown at one point) it's not the nuns itself I have that much of an issue with, although they're still extremely silly. What I have an issue with is that this trailer is completely the wrong kind of 'violence worship.'
In Hitman, it's all about the coldly calculated kill. Of hatching a plan, executing it flawlessly and leaving the scene with none the wiser until the bodies are discovered long after you've slipped away. That's what Hitman is all about.
This however is just some cheesy, almost dime-a-dozen action scene appealing to the dicks of young gamers. Honestly:
In Hitman, it's all about the coldly calculated kill. Of hatching a plan, executing it flawlessly and leaving the scene with none the wiser until the bodies are discovered long after you've slipped away. That's what Hitman is all about.
This however is just some cheesy, almost dime-a-dozen action scene appealing to the dicks of young gamers. Honestly:
To counter point though, did anybody claim we're sexualizing violence with Bayonetta kicking ass in leather and stripping down with nothing but her hair to cover her modesty?
This is videogame land we're talking about, where violence is mad to look good to shift a few units.
I'm not going to start masturbating over /r/BeatingWomen because I spanked a few rubber coated nuns and garrotted them.
Give it a week or two and this will be forgotten, I for one shall be starting that process now by ignoring the fact this article exists and the existence of the IGN writer.
This is videogame land we're talking about, where violence is mad to look good to shift a few units.
I'm not going to start masturbating over /r/BeatingWomen because I spanked a few rubber coated nuns and garrotted them.
Give it a week or two and this will be forgotten, I for one shall be starting that process now by ignoring the fact this article exists and the existence of the IGN writer.
Six men in tuxedos isn't an apt comparison.rbstewart7263 said:
Rather picture eight guys who look like they walked right out of the cast of Jersey Shore, or a Calvin Klein and Abercrombie and Fitch ad.
Now they're all wearing Catholic Priest attire. Suddenly they strip off their robes leaving only their collars revealing their bare tan bodies covered only by the very tactical outfits of jock straps, speedos, chaps, bondage straps, thongs, and such.
You're damn right people will make a fuss.
Thing is, an ad like that will never be made but it's just as stupid.
And you're right that ads are supposed to grab people's attention. But someone who worked in marketing told me they should also give the consumer a general sense of the product and if it's a game demonstrate mechanics and teach you how to play the game. (Batman: Arkham City's CG trailer demonstrated how to use the freeflow combat and stealth as well as the new smoke pellets. Assassin's Creed showed off free running. Left 4 Dead's intro showed off smoke bombs, assists, Tanks using cars and etc...)
If I had known nothing of Hitman before I would think the game was a non stop hack and slash shoot em up filled with ridiculous over the top characters that belong in a fighting game or JRPG.
Uhhh, yes. Yes they did. And people screamed like howler monkeys because "THEIRS NO SEXIZM IN GAMIN!!!!!!!!11!!11!!!11one"Lyri said:
Or they claimed empowerment, as has already been referenced in this thread.
Is anyone else worried that they're going to go from sprawling levels that reward exploration and thoughtfulness to a linear sequence of scripted events? Or that they're going to replace the current stealth system that relies on staying incognito, securing disguises, and tactically deciding when and whether to kill someone in addition to actually sneaking around with a game based entirely on the latter? The gameplay video made me nervous...
The Youth Counselor said:Six men in tuxedos isn't an apt comparison.rbstewart7263 said:
Rather picture eight guys who look like they walked right out of the cast of Jersey Shore, or a Calvin Klein and Abercrombie and Fitch ad.
Now they're all wearing Catholic Priest attire. Suddenly they strip off their robes leaving only their collars revealing their bare tan bodies covered only by the very tactical outfits of jock straps, speedos, chaps, bondage straps, thongs, and such.
You're damn right people will make a fuss.
Thing is, an ad like that will never be made but it's just as stupid.
And you're right that ads are supposed to grab people's attention. But someone who worked in marketing told me they should also give the consumer a general sense of the product and if it's a game demonstrate mechanics and teach you how to play the game. (Batman: Arkham City's CG trailer demonstrated how to use the freeflow combat and stealth as well as the new smoke pellets. Assassin's Creed showed off free running. Left 4 Dead's intro showed off smoke bombs, assists, Tanks using cars and etc...)
If I had known nothing of Hitman before I would think the game was a non stop hack and slash shoot em up filled with ridiculous over the top characters that belong in a fighting game or JRPG.
Fair enough reguarding that the trailer doesnt show off the stealth mechanics. the hitman games always gave you a choice and i believe run and gun was an option. Ill merit that the trailer is perhaps lacking(I liked it) but then Im not gonna see it as cause to worry over the game the footage thats been released so far looks good. Sure the person who buys the game based off the trailer will have a bit of system shock but i mean its not a warcrime he will either figure it out or not such is life.
Also its important to note that different types of sexualization impower or disempower a person or character. in this case the women were sexy. damned sexy but they carried it well and there was enough mystery that were they to walk into a party there would be enough to keep me interested.
People think the tux is not an apt description but for men thongs and such are disempowering they reveal too much.(In the same manner as a thong an bra shows so much as to make some men lose interest.) some leather outfits bdsm style would also be an apt comparison it leaves enough to the imagination to keep the person intrigued.
Another reason why the tux is the mans opposite to the womans leather top and skirt is the way that clothing compliments a given persons shape. a man such as 47 is square in shoulders and waste so a tux better compliments these features the womans too if you will notice also compliments well those circular features without being too revealing.
As far as the arguement goes I think that it needs to be decided that being attractive or somewhat revealing or sexual does not sell you out to the evil men of the world its what you do with it and how you use it. I think that alot of feminists seem to be confused on this matter a woman of sexual presence and dominance can rule and control, a room full of men if she sees fit too. No its not fair to insist one view as the only view and to disregard those expressions that others choose a woman should not feel like a sellout for wanting to look sexy or revealing.
You know it is her body and all.
Also does this arguement of female disempowerment through the amount of skin you show not ring similar to that of a strict religious mindset such as a catholic or mormon might have?? Strange as most feminists ive met seem eager to get a away from the church and its male dominant mindset.
The video did not worry me i dont expect my trailers to be one to one shows of gameplay or gameplay footage.reachforthesky said:
The gameplay footage we have seen has me a wee bit worried but the mechanics look tighter.
I was referring to the gameplay video that was released earlier, where 47 is sneaking through a burnt out building, running from a helicopter, etc.rbstewart7263 said:
You know, it's trailers like this make me want to go to every game development studio on the planet and make all the men there spend a few days tip toeing around in stilettos. They can run, jump, and attempt to play sports in them too! Maybe after a few twisted/broken ankles they'd finally get the hint that as nice as they make a girl's rump look, it's not suitable combat footwear. Actually, let's include comic book companies, TV and movie studios in that equation too. It's one of the many reasons why I won't be seeing Catwoman in the new Batman movie.
Honestly, I'd kill for more games to show women dressing practically for the situations they're approaching and not dressing them for titillation. As many people have said: that's what makes this sexist. Honestly, that's the part about sexualization of violence/majority of action girls that really bugs me. It always assumes that the woman in question will A) use her looks to succeed and B) will dress for eye candy. It handicaps the characters themselves and the viewer will automatically assume that they are bad at or less capable than the men surrounding them because of the way they are dressed. Super skin tight clothing usually means one is less capable of fluid movement, especially when they're teetering around on tiny spikes with the balls of their feet arched way up.
All that said, good comic!
Captcha: Age before beauty... Applicable?
Honestly, I'd kill for more games to show women dressing practically for the situations they're approaching and not dressing them for titillation. As many people have said: that's what makes this sexist. Honestly, that's the part about sexualization of violence/majority of action girls that really bugs me. It always assumes that the woman in question will A) use her looks to succeed and B) will dress for eye candy. It handicaps the characters themselves and the viewer will automatically assume that they are bad at or less capable than the men surrounding them because of the way they are dressed. Super skin tight clothing usually means one is less capable of fluid movement, especially when they're teetering around on tiny spikes with the balls of their feet arched way up.
All that said, good comic!
Captcha: Age before beauty... Applicable?
Fuck, can't watch the trailer on here. I forgot to change the year in the birthday settings. What less than a year old would even watch that on here anyway escapist?