Hobbit Casting Agent Fired For Dismissing Non-White Hobbits
- Thread starter Elizabeth Grunewald
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No, white guys as Persians is not perfectly acceptable. I believe several people here made the point that PoP's casting was every bit as silly as considering people of color for roles as hobbits. In movies or theater, looking the part is as essential as acting ability, even more so for extras because they don't really get to act.Wuvlycuddles said:
Take me, for example. I am a large beige(mid-eastern and white) dude. I am too dark and too tall to play a hobbit. I would not even show up for an audition. I also wouldn't bother to audition for the role of Cleopatra(I'm the right color, wrong gender), Erik the Red(much too dark), Othello(much too light) or Marie Curie(everything).
It's not about it being a fantasy film, it's about staying true to canon. Several important characters in the world of Conan the Barbarian are black, as well as many other races. No one complains about that because that's the way REH originally wrote them and their presence actually makes sense. The Nelwyns in Willow were remarkably multiracial, despite ostensibly all being native to the same small village, but no one complained about that either because Willow was an original screenplay with it's own canon.
The point is, I don't believe this Humphreys person is an aspiring actress at all, I think she's a muckraker.
What an asshat. You have to look like what youre playing. Did all of the people above the height mark get mad for discrimination? NO! Because hobbits are SHORT and WHITE. This is not racist. If a purple elephant wanted to play Dumbo they wouldnt let him. Is there anything wrong with being purple? No (maybe biologically, but no) but that's not the issue, it's that DUMBO IS NOT PURPLE!
To anybody who saw The Last Airbender: remember how the whole Fire Nation was supposed to be Japanese? ...and they were all Indian? Nothing wrong with Indians, except that the fire nation WASNT FUCKING INDIAN.
To anybody who saw The Last Airbender: remember how the whole Fire Nation was supposed to be Japanese? ...and they were all Indian? Nothing wrong with Indians, except that the fire nation WASNT FUCKING INDIAN.
Agreed, but they were still fucking stupid.JDKJ said:
If a whole production team decides to only cast for white/black people in a given role, that's fine because there's clearly no intent beyond the needs of the movie.
If one person makes that decision on their own they might just be being a massive racist, and no-one can prove otherwise.
At the very least, how long would it have taken to ask someone else instead of just adding shit to the specifications without telling anyone?
Ancient Persians actually were white. They migrated into the Iranian Plateau from Eastern Europe. Since the reign of the Sassanid Dynasty which is the setting for the Prince of Persia games and film the area has been conquered by at least 4 different ethnic groups, modern Iran is literally nothing like ancient Persia.Wuvlycuddles said:
A white actor with a light tan is the best possible fit for a Sassanid Prince. The part should be cast appropriately, not changed to please politically correct drones who did not do the research.
No, they migrated into the Iranian Plateau from Central Asia.Eldritch Warlord said:
You are right however in that they did have very light skin. Light skin is not unique to Europe.
What this guy said.Stiffkittin said:
This is why the casting agent was an idiot for making the decision on his/her own.
So people are ready to believe in a land where magic exists, where Elves can live for ever and trees are sentient but you assume that the sun effects the blood vessels that change skin colour pigmentation in exactly the same as on earth?
I see where people are coming from, it's not as if it wasn't written by a white person from a predominately white country but I don't think Tolkien specifically stating the ethnicity of any characters in the book.
Doesn't the sun work differently in Middle Earth anyway? I haven't read any of the books in years, so I can't quite remember.
I see where people are coming from, it's not as if it wasn't written by a white person from a predominately white country but I don't think Tolkien specifically stating the ethnicity of any characters in the book.
Doesn't the sun work differently in Middle Earth anyway? I haven't read any of the books in years, so I can't quite remember.
There is nothing wrong with ethnically divergent subraces in a fantasy setting. In several fantasy settings you see a wild mix of races and ethnic diversity. In David Eddings books you see several different races living very close to each other with wildly divergent customs and physical appearance. In the Belgariad specifically there is one "race" (all races in the Belgariad are humans... except for the monsters) that has split into 4 very different sub-races. You have one branch that is reminiscent of the ancient vikings in both customs, temperament and physical appearance while another branch is conniving and dishonest yet fiercely loyal. They are generally lithe and far more sensible then their more burly cousins.
But we were talking hobbits. Another word for hobbits is halflings (they are refered to as such several times in the books and even in the movies. Now halflings have crept into many other settings as well. In the Dragon Lance setting halflings are fool hearty little folk with a taste for danger and adventure - not to mention tall tales and other peoples possessions. In that world they are referred to as kendars (that is the Danish way of writing it. I am unsure if it is the correct way). In anther setting known as "Midnight" (incidentally this setting is modelled on middle earth as kind of a what-if setting where the bad guy won.) the halflings are gypsies on swampgoing boats. They are generally skinny unlike the more portly hobbits.
What I am getting at is the racial and cultural diversity is a part of the fantasy genre. In this genre you can have democracies next to empires and theocracies. Customs can vary wildly within just a few miles and have no effect on each other (impossible in the real world). This means that black halflings and asian dwarves are not so far fetched in a fantasy setting.
However, the setting has to rest in itself. If you make rules for the setting you can't break those rules without breaking the setting. Now a couple of rules in the Tolkiens middle-earth: The world is sparsely populated. Villages of any significant size are far between and interaction between them is limited. The Shire is fairly cut off from the rest of the world even by middle-earth standards. The world is far larger then what the books describe. There are or has been greater evils then Sauron. (there are probably more)
Now the rule we are interested in is the isolations of the Shire. This leads us to several conclusions. 1) The society would me homogeneous. Customs and values would be similar across the Shire. 2) There would be a profound distrust of anything foreign or different. 3) The society would be largely self-sufficient. All these conclusions are proven true in the books. The simple life is held in high regard by all hobbits. Even Gandalf, loved as he is, is seen as a trouble-maker. All food and mostly all raw materials are gathered from inside the Shires borders. Only a few outlying townships has any trade with the outside. The other towns then trade with these gateway-towns for any missing raw materials. So any kind of cultural exchange is nearly impossible and ANY kind of foreign or different hobbit would be the subject of much gossip and scowling (such as the Baggins.). In this environment a hobbit with another ethnicity would be downright scandalous.
So in closing, a ethnically different hobbit would be quite possible in other settings and even in middle-earth but not in the Shire and as "The Hobbit" only deals with Shire-folk a Persian hobbit, however politically correct it might be, would go against the vision of the books. Historical or aesthetic correctness trumps political correctness in my book.
Being denied an audition because you ethnicity does not fit the role is not racism and claiming it is lessens the apparent threat of real racism.
on a side-note: It would technically be possible for the lady in question to get a role as a hobbit. Problem is the producers would then have to go find people that matched her ethnicity to make the Shire fit the description.
But we were talking hobbits. Another word for hobbits is halflings (they are refered to as such several times in the books and even in the movies. Now halflings have crept into many other settings as well. In the Dragon Lance setting halflings are fool hearty little folk with a taste for danger and adventure - not to mention tall tales and other peoples possessions. In that world they are referred to as kendars (that is the Danish way of writing it. I am unsure if it is the correct way). In anther setting known as "Midnight" (incidentally this setting is modelled on middle earth as kind of a what-if setting where the bad guy won.) the halflings are gypsies on swampgoing boats. They are generally skinny unlike the more portly hobbits.
What I am getting at is the racial and cultural diversity is a part of the fantasy genre. In this genre you can have democracies next to empires and theocracies. Customs can vary wildly within just a few miles and have no effect on each other (impossible in the real world). This means that black halflings and asian dwarves are not so far fetched in a fantasy setting.
However, the setting has to rest in itself. If you make rules for the setting you can't break those rules without breaking the setting. Now a couple of rules in the Tolkiens middle-earth: The world is sparsely populated. Villages of any significant size are far between and interaction between them is limited. The Shire is fairly cut off from the rest of the world even by middle-earth standards. The world is far larger then what the books describe. There are or has been greater evils then Sauron. (there are probably more)
Now the rule we are interested in is the isolations of the Shire. This leads us to several conclusions. 1) The society would me homogeneous. Customs and values would be similar across the Shire. 2) There would be a profound distrust of anything foreign or different. 3) The society would be largely self-sufficient. All these conclusions are proven true in the books. The simple life is held in high regard by all hobbits. Even Gandalf, loved as he is, is seen as a trouble-maker. All food and mostly all raw materials are gathered from inside the Shires borders. Only a few outlying townships has any trade with the outside. The other towns then trade with these gateway-towns for any missing raw materials. So any kind of cultural exchange is nearly impossible and ANY kind of foreign or different hobbit would be the subject of much gossip and scowling (such as the Baggins.). In this environment a hobbit with another ethnicity would be downright scandalous.
So in closing, a ethnically different hobbit would be quite possible in other settings and even in middle-earth but not in the Shire and as "The Hobbit" only deals with Shire-folk a Persian hobbit, however politically correct it might be, would go against the vision of the books. Historical or aesthetic correctness trumps political correctness in my book.
Being denied an audition because you ethnicity does not fit the role is not racism and claiming it is lessens the apparent threat of real racism.
on a side-note: It would technically be possible for the lady in question to get a role as a hobbit. Problem is the producers would then have to go find people that matched her ethnicity to make the Shire fit the description.
[Sarcams] Six hundered and if you say otherwise you are racist!Casual Shinji said:
On topic, Hobbits are white, they just are deal with it! When we see a black female hobbit Naz Humphreys we will give it to you. I hate people who play the racism card.
Too bad people are so damn sensitive these days. Hobbits aren't black, yellow, red, blue, violet or any other color. Nor are they a culturally diverse species. Are we really to the point where people need to be included as tokens in a Tolkien film?
It's good to know that, as a Caucasian, I can apply for scholarships and benefits from a variety of other other ethnic groups. After all, nobody is looking at my heritage or skin color, right? Right...
It's good to know that, as a Caucasian, I can apply for scholarships and benefits from a variety of other other ethnic groups. After all, nobody is looking at my heritage or skin color, right? Right...
Ok, so maybe that was a bad example, but that was far from the only example that came to mind. How about the latest Star Trek film, a Korean taking on the role of a Japanese helmsman, did anyone care? And i can't think of a western Genghis Khan film where an Asian actor was cast in the lead role. Tennessee Williams' Cat on a Hot Tin Roof was recently re-done with an all African cast. Also, i believe there was only ever one Black actor to play Othello before the 20th century.Doth said:
Point is, outside the realms of Bio Pics, it really does not matter what race the actor is. It may not be accepted by everyone and there will always be people to point out the error, but so what? The story or the action have always been more important than a few MINOR details, since when has it ever been any different in Hollywood?
I suppose the question then becomes: When doing a movie adaptation of a fantasy book written by a guy who was ethnocentric, is it worse to racially profile the actors to keep it ethnocentric or to change his vision to make it less racist? It's an interesting question without a simple answer.
Hobbits, based off middle Yorkshire like areas of England with a touch of Scots (The Tooks), Medieval Europe setting. Now I don't know about you but I wouldn't imagine very many black or Asian hobbits walking around particularly as they rarely leave the Shire and therefore not able to evolve into being the Asian/black versions like we humans have.
I find it rather retarded to think that anyone thinks this is racist in the slightest but then again I'm on the Escapist whoms writers pan from intelligent to down right PC idiots.
Also it never states what colour their skin is?... well it does every now and then but even if it didn't it still makes no logical sense for them to be anything but white (albeit maybe a bit tanned). But by the writers logic I'm now going to consider Frodo to be a 10ft tall green skinned man with a Jamaican accent cause the book doesn't says that he doesn't.
I find it rather retarded to think that anyone thinks this is racist in the slightest but then again I'm on the Escapist whoms writers pan from intelligent to down right PC idiots.
Also it never states what colour their skin is?... well it does every now and then but even if it didn't it still makes no logical sense for them to be anything but white (albeit maybe a bit tanned). But by the writers logic I'm now going to consider Frodo to be a 10ft tall green skinned man with a Jamaican accent cause the book doesn't says that he doesn't.