Holy crap, Frozen suuuuuucks.

[hermes]

Indeed, Frozen is overhyped Western garbage. Western animation should just die out already, since in its shriveled state, its a niche of a niche. Whatever I find myself watching from the West is exclusively from DC or Marvel nowadays...

If a movie that made over 1 Billion dollars, in a genre that includes some of the highest grossing and best critically received films of all times is a niche of a niche, you may need to review your definition of the word.

 

[Kinokohatake]

Indeed, Frozen is overhyped Western garbage. Western animation should just die out already, since in its shriveled state, its a niche of a niche. Whatever I find myself watching from the West is exclusively from DC or Marvel nowadays...

I'll take western animation than the large breasted 12 year olds anime decides to constantly create.

OT: Grown folk picking apart a decebt kids film. My daughter loved it and really she is the target audience. Still, it was a million times better than that Tangled garbage.

 

[Sung-Hwan]

Indeed, Frozen is overhyped Western garbage. Western animation should just die out already, since in its shriveled state, its a niche of a niche. Whatever I find myself watching from the West is exclusively from DC or Marvel nowadays...

What about the newer Pixar movies? Up, Wall-E, Toy Story 3?

Generally well-received and reasonably popular. Fantastic films.

They're good films, but those are not new. I'm mainly talking about when Western cartoons were really a thing with Cartoon Network.

 

[Monsterfurby]

Finally, the music. I just didn't like it, and I'm a person that likes musicals. There was way too much of it, it was like the movie couldn't go two minutes without breaking into another terrible song for no reason near the beginning. The songs themselves sounded like the same garbage that is heard on the radio all the time and completely lacked the magic of songs from other Disney movies such as The Little Mermaid. Also that Vuelie song at the beginning and end sounded a lot like Yub Nub from Star Wars to me. The songs never seemed to flow naturally in the story and were simply there because Disney movies have songs so they needed to have songs in the movie.

Yes. I agree with most of your points, but this one is incredibly true. I love musicals. I love musical movies. Yet, this was the first film ever to make me go "Oh god, this is going to be a musical, isn't it?" after the first half hour or so was nothing but SUNG EXPOSITION. The songs just don't mesh very well with the plot, nor do they drive it forward (like any musical's songs should, and Disney's usually do) - they just repeat what has already been established.

The Songs being very weak (yes, that includes Let It Go) didn't help. What makes this worse is that I actually like Idina Menzel as a singer - she was awesome in the concert version of Chess and displays her talent here as well - but she just wasn't given very good material to work with.

Overall, the movie was disappointing, especially given all the hype it received. Of all animation movies I watched lately, it was by far the weakest. Not really bad, mind you, just utterly forgettable and no real step forward in terms of musicals, animation or musical movies.

Oh, also the love plot twist: yeah, seemed clever at first, but was subverted WAY too obviously. There was far more room for nuance and proper conflict here.

 

[Lord Garnaat]

I thought Frozen was pretty decent the first time I saw it, but over time my opinion has soured somewhat. The thing with Elsa controlling her powers or Hans being evil didn't bother me that much, but the one you pointed out about the "love at first sight" moral really bugged me.

The whole film they were talking about how falling in love with someone you just met is stupid, how irresponsible Anna was, how idiotic someone has to be to believe in that sort of thing, that honestly it got somewhat grating. Yes, I get it Frozen, you're "not like your dad's Disney animated film!" But there's a point when it just comes across as smug and a tad ungrateful, considering that stories like that are the only reason you exist. I could have looked past it, though, if they didn't end up doing a complete U-turn on the whole thing halfway through. How is Anna's romance with Kristoff any different from her one with Hans? They meet, they bond, and they fall in love all in the course of a few hours. Isn't it a touch bit insincere to be rolling your eyes at the "love at first sight" thing one moment and then turning around and doing the exact same thing the next?

I agree with you about the songs, I really didn't understand why people were so head over heels with them. Most of them didn't make an impact on me at all, "Let it Go" included. It baffles me why that song is so popular - comparing to the average Disney song, I wouldn't even put it in a top ten, and that was before I got so completely sick of hearing it everywhere. The only one I really, really liked was the ice-cutters song at the start, since it was very intense and atmospheric (though for whatever reason that seems to be the song that people don't like as much).

Also, the trolls are one of the most ugly, irritating inclusions I've seen in any animated film. They're on the same level as the minions from Despicable Me, as far as I'm concerned: stupid, pointless, out-of-place, grating, unfunny, annoying things. Every time I see them I start seeing red and throwing things.

 

[happyninja42]

snip

That's cool, different strokes for different folks and all that. I liked the movie, and that's saying a lot for me, 'cause I hate Disney Princess movies, and I hate musicals with a passion that is probably pathological. But I liked Frozen. It was enjoyable for the most part, with only a few songs that really grated on my nerves (grr, shut you stupid trolls, stop singing!!).

But hey, you can not like the movie all you want.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Realistically, it's a Disney film. I don't expect much. I've yet to see it but I have the gist from people and it doesn't seem BAD, I'm just not in any hurry. I wanted to see Brave more than I wanted to see Frozen. Sadly I still haven't seen the former due to life getting in the way and my bad memory on things like that. Always seem to forget about it when I have the time. I'll have to try Tangled too, as with a few exceptions (Death Note, mostly) the Escapist users seem to always recommend good stuff.

The flagship song I'm not really sick of, but I'm kinda tired of hearing the hook every fifteen seconds. Compared to other Disney songs, it doesn't really strike me as memorable. Nice message and all, but after hearing it while driving it's just....I dunno.

I'll still watch it, but as I said I don't expect much more than to have a good time. I don't expect continuity or a plot free of holes, or for everything to be explained. Sometimes it doesn't need to be.

As far as Western animation goes, I don't think it's dying, but I DO sometimes think that it was a mistake for 2D animation to almost completely drop off the map after Toy Story came out. Don't get me wrong, there have been some great CG films. But why did it have to go to the wayside so fast? I feel like at least around here in the U.S., if it's not CG, a lot of people aren't really interested, which is a shame. Things like Adventure Time and MLP prove that 2D animation still has some appeal (although it's probably more that if your writing is good it doesn't matter WHAT medium you put it in), I just don't understand why it fell so hard. Is it really more expensive to produce now? I would think that it's cheaper to some degree, and if it is, isn't that the route to go and use the extra money on your script and story to make sure it's well-written and well done? Could that have saved some of the more lackluster titles that came out using the CG format?

 

[laggyteabag]

I thought the film was okay, but this is coming from someone that A) Doesn't really like musicals, and B) Isn't the biggest fan of Disney movies. I think that a lot of my "meh"-ness came from the fact that when you are presented with a film that has critics and consumers alike raving about how it is the best animated movie ever of all time, it suddenly becomes a lot easier to pick the film apart when you do actually start to watch it. My biggest gripe with the film was just that one of the main plot-points is "you can save her, with loooooooooove" because that is, and always has been, a pretty lazy trope, but I felt that they did at least do something pretty interesting with Hans being evil, even if it was a complete 180 to his established character. If I liked musicals as a genre, would I have liked the film more? Probably, but as it stands, I had a lot more fun with How to Train Your Dragon 2.

 

[Mister K]

I think these are related to the thread:

I won't say that it was a BAD cartoon, but it was far from being good. I mean, OK, you have this baron guy who wants to claim the kingdom. He is obviously not well written, so you can focus on main characters. Why would you need a second antagonist? I personally would've prefered if it was like this: Red head is frozen, gets home, asks Hans to kiss her, he does so and nothing happens. They are confused, obviously. He then reveals that he doesn't actually love her etc., but in more of a guilty manner, because he simply wanted kind of a political marriage. He never expected this situation. He later helps out, true love, blah blah blah. And then at the end of the movie he goes back to his own land, saying that he had a change of heart. Or hell, maybe he even actually falls in love with Elza (that's the ice queen's name, right?), she with him, everyone is happy. But nooo, he must be a bad guy.

Also, as someone pointed out before, songs are bad.

Oh, and one more thing, 2 comic relief characters is 1 too many.

And one more thing. She understands that love is a source of control and poof, she controls her powers in a second? Really?

And one more thing. Rapunzel from Tangled may be a less serious character, but she has tons of willpower, she is a talented artist, self-taught in all disciplines and kind of more likable overall. Plus this particular cartoon had better villain, love interest and supporting cast.

 

[NPC009]

I liked it. I've never been into Disney movies all that much (I was more of a Don Bluth kid and I do not want to know what that says about me), and Frozen one was the first one I watched in many years. In any case, these active princesses are a lot more fun than those from the classics. On one hand we've got Elsa, who's basically going through 'Superhero Origin Story: The Musical', and on the other there's her tomboy sister Anna, who's trying to help her through that before the world freezes over. That's cool. I like that.

As for the critism:

-Yeah, Elsa's magic is very... magicky, but I think the gloves would be easily explained. Elsa is deadly afraid she will hurt someone with her powers and that thin layer makes her just a little less afraid. It's a psychological thing and just enough to help her keep her powers in check. Kinda like tiny fancy comfort blankets she wears on her hands.

-I thought Hans was a little too extreme, as well, but the movie did hint towards him not being what he seems. You see an evil grin here and there, like when Anna ask him to take care of the capital while she is gone. Or hey, the cross bow. And I have to admit, it was so much fun seeing the 'marry the first guy you meet' thing go so horribly wrong! Considering Disney's history with that trope it wouldn't have been half as entertaining had Hans been a decent guy who made a few bad decisions.

-As for stuff like love saving the day, Anna being indestructable and so on: it's a fairytale-like movie for children, it's not supposed to be realistic. And it wasn't any worse than other Disney films. I mean, look at Tangled, Flynn should have died within first five minutes instead of you know, the last five.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

It was good enough, I really enjoyed it the first time I watched it (my biggest issue was the songs, not the quality of them, but rather how often they showed up, it felt like too many songs even for a Disney movie). After a few rewatches though, it starts to get obnoxious. Part of that I think though is because of the obsessive media hype of Elsa's song and Frozen holiday marketing in general, the movie is getting old now and they just won't... let it go.

Is it really more expensive to produce now? I would think that it's cheaper to some degree, and if it is, isn't that the route to go and use the extra money on your script and story to make sure it's well-written and well done? Could that have saved some of the more lackluster titles that came out using the CG format?

2D animation is cheaper, but it's also a much more laborious process [footnote]There's a rule of thumb that 10 seconds of animation is 300 frames, you can draw all 300 of those frames yourself, maybe with the help of a few other people, or you can have a computer fill in the blanks in an hour of tweaking. There are, of course ways to make this less painful and computers will still do a lot of the work for you even in 2D animation, but the quality goes down and feature films are held to a "higher" standard. That being said The Secret of Kells is a gorgeous film, I wish it had sold better.[/footnote] and unfortunately doesn't sell well as big feature films anymore[footnote]although this may be a chicken and egg scenario[/footnote].

CG animation also has better reuse of assets. You only really need to make the models, rigs, environments, ext once, then you can keep using them for as long as they serve a purpose (including in sequels and sequels of sequels). You can reuse some things in 2D[footnote]such as backgrounds, walk cycles, ext[/footnote] but since you can't do things like freely rotate the camera inside of a castle, it's much easier for a viewer to call it out.[footnote]Like seeing the same background five times.[/footnote]

I do find it weird how adults obsess over movies made for tiny children, and it is a little discouraging.

......... It is very strange if you sit down to watch it above the age of 10 though, that is weird.

Just because a movie is made to appeal to children [footnote]Assuming we're talking specifically about movies with "children" as the target audience and you're not blanketing all animated movies as being only for children, because that's silly on a website that appeals to people who play video games.[/footnote], doesn't mean it's not partly created in consideration of adults or the parents. Haven't you ever heard of "getting it past the radar"? This is when films or shows aimed at children incorporate themes and jokes only adults will understand. Over the Garden Wall is absolutely filled with this.[footnote]Lots of footnotes in this post[/footnote][footnote]this is a footnote[/footnote][footnote]footnote footnote[/footnote]

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Am I right, or do you think that Frozen was actually an excellent well written film?

Are you "right"? Not in the slightest - all you have is an opinion, just like me and everyone else in this thread/world (although I'd say your 'points' about Hans and Anna are slightly ridiculous. the whole point was for the audience to buy that Hans was the typical stand-up The One guy. also, yeah, their montage sequence is a single night - and looks it - because it, well, was and is clearly shown to be).

For comparison I'm a lover of Kurosawa and Terrence Malick's films (Tree Of Life FTW), but I adore Frozen; easily my favourite Disney film (never been a fan anyway, to be fair), and maybe even my favourite Western animation, full stop.

Is Frozen somehow objectively perfect? No, but is anything [apart from Blade Runner]? I could go point to point on your textwall, but in the end it's just different folk having different reactions (you didn't like Anna? I wuv'd her. the songs? ditto, etc). Pretty sure I've seen it about six or seven times already, and I could shove it on now and still thoroughly enjoy the whole thing. Hell, because I've avoided it quite impressively out of the film, I still enjoy Elsa's snowgasm Let It Go when that scene comes up.

For one, I do love that it focuses on a familial bond between women, and that, by the end, neither is defined by a male partner (Elsa doesn't even need one). I find Anna adorable (and relatably normal/daft), and think the team and Kristen Bell did an incredible job making her an adorkable low-key heroine who has a rewarding personal journey alongside her sibling. As a whole, I think the facial animations and performances are just perfect; Frozen has soul and a great depth of humanity because of that.

And it managed to do something which barely any films do: surprise me. I didn't see the Hans twist coming, and I didn't see the sacrifice twist coming, either. I'm a big Marvel fan and MCU fan, and I think Frozen's a smarter, cannier made film than anything Marvel Studio's have put out. Frozen didn't just pull off surprises or little twists for the sake of cool set-pieces or story, its twists were integral to the overall themes and ideas of the film. There's a cohesion to its design that's quite remarkable.

...and oh yeah, I think it's bizarre to call Frozen a kid's film or made for little girls alone, and either of those things be in any way dismissive. Can't entertainment and art just be made for, well, everyone sometimes? Tiny kids enjoyed it, I enjoyed loved it, and so have a bunch of OAP's. It tells a positive, humane - and slightly feminist/subversive - tale, and that it's one of the most successful animations of all time is, to me, something to be thankful for (as opposed to something like Titanic's creepingly exploitative schmaltz, or Avatar's iffy racial politics and hypocrisy).

 

[putowtin]

Much prefer this version:

But yeah, it sucked and people need to get over it... I swear the next person to sing that song at me... I'll start swinging!

I'm just biding my time until Tangled becomes popular again. Viva la Tangled!

 

[JoJo]

It's a fairy tale, complaining about a fairy tale for being cliched is like complaining about water for being wet. The 'love saves the day by thawing a frozen heart' part isn't the most original device ever but it was in the original Snow Queen tale which Frozen is loosely based off, though between a boy and girl rather than two sisters, so you can hardly hold it against the film.

 

[Evonisia]

I haven't seen it - is it worth it? I'm really looking for a long string of yes/no posts here rather than lengthy explanation. If it helps, I watched Super 8 the other night and thought it was okay. I also watched Locke and thought it was pretty long and concretey.

Yes, if I remove all my personal hype and stuff over the thing it's a solid Disney film. Take that how you will.

4. Opinions on characters and music is just opinions. Let It Go has been in our top 40 for something crazy like 40ish weeks, so clearly the music and characters are popular.

Which is great for the US (though it didn't in the US), amazing in literally any other country in the world for context. It probably explains why everyone's so bloody sick of it though even if you leave aside people exposing themselves to the YouTube videos.

OT: Rule #7 of entertainment: If something is massively successful, popular and is considered good it will be open to people getting their nitpick on when they finally indulge in the product.

I've nothing to say that hasn't already been said regarding the list of points. Frozen is no Toy Story 3 level masterpiece like all the hype would probably suggest, but it's utterly solid with a plot that is shaky but isn't completely inept and has a nice message behind it. Hans being like that only to turn out to be the villain is meant to show kids to not just give their hearts away so quickly even if they seem like the one. Anna desperately tries loving Elsa like she actually lived a life with her because Anna is starved for attention and wants love from somebody who rejected her. Elsa actually doesn't try showing love back until Anna goes through all that effort to help her.

I imagine if the songs were better spread out people wouldn't complain about the quantity of them, given that they're mostly in the first Act and one final song as we enter the third Act.

I'd say Frozen was about as good a film as Tangled, which was less popular and wasn't gushed over until everybody's guts got tainted with plague. Surprise, people don't nitpick that film to death.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'd say Frozen was about as good a film as Tangled, which was less popular and wasn't gushed over until everybody's guts got tainted with plague. Surprise, people don't nitpick that film to death.

Oh, I will!

- The chameleon adds nothing to the plot at all, and conveniently disappears when the drama starts up.
- If Rapunzel's hair is so precious to Gothel and loses its power once severed, why in the name of God does she use it to climb the tower with instead of, you know... rope?
- Who's maintaining that grass outside of the tower? Looks pretty well kept. Or does Gothel just spend hours cutting that shit during summer?
- How is Rapunzel able to swim when she's never left that tower?
- And speaking off which, where does Rapunzel even go to the bathroom? I can't say I saw any sort of plumbing in that place. Unless she just chucks out the- ... Ewww!

Still, I love that movie.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

You forgot to mention how the entire plot is completely contrived because the King and Queen are complete fucking morons.

The king knows enough to know about the trolls and respect their wisdom and knowledge on magical things. That's why he takes Anna to them when she gets a frosty facial. After curing Anna, the troll shaman then gives the parents some advice, saying specifically that Elsa's power can be a great and beautiful thing or it can be terrible and destructive. What can make it terrible and destructive? Fear. Quote: "Fear is the enemy."

And so how do the parents interpret the shaman's wise words? "Let's lock Elsa away from EVERYONE because she's so incredibly dangerous, thus ensuring that she'll grow up to be absolutely terrified of herself and her powers." Which, in turn, leads to the rest of the plot of the movie. Had the parents, you know, actually listened to the troll shaman they would have known that it was a bad idea to lock Elsa away and teach her to fear herself because she's a monster who must always "conceal, don't feel" lest she haul off and kill someone. Not just a bad idea, but the exact opposite of what the troll - the only authority on magic in the movie that we're shown - tells them to do.

 

[Fractral]

Funny, I actually watched Frozen for the first time yesterday. It wasn't as good as everybody had hyped it up to be but by no means did that make it a bad film in my eyes. I was probably more inclined to dislike it than most, given that I had to spend a month living with half a dozen girls who would not stop singing the bloody soundtrack every minute of the freaking day but after watching it I think it was decent. Yeah, there are plot holes- big deal, every film has some- and some of the songs are a bit redundant but I enjoyed it and it managed to surprise me on at least one occasion.
As usual the actual quality of the film can be placed roughly in the middle of the opposing extremes.