Holy crap, Frozen suuuuuucks.

[happyninja42]

snip

That's cool, different strokes for different folks and all that. I liked the movie, and that's saying a lot for me, 'cause I hate Disney Princess movies, and I hate musicals with a passion that is probably pathological. But I liked Frozen. It was enjoyable for the most part, with only a few songs that really grated on my nerves (grr, shut you stupid trolls, stop singing!!).

But hey, you can not like the movie all you want.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Realistically, it's a Disney film. I don't expect much. I've yet to see it but I have the gist from people and it doesn't seem BAD, I'm just not in any hurry. I wanted to see Brave more than I wanted to see Frozen. Sadly I still haven't seen the former due to life getting in the way and my bad memory on things like that. Always seem to forget about it when I have the time. I'll have to try Tangled too, as with a few exceptions (Death Note, mostly) the Escapist users seem to always recommend good stuff.

The flagship song I'm not really sick of, but I'm kinda tired of hearing the hook every fifteen seconds. Compared to other Disney songs, it doesn't really strike me as memorable. Nice message and all, but after hearing it while driving it's just....I dunno.

I'll still watch it, but as I said I don't expect much more than to have a good time. I don't expect continuity or a plot free of holes, or for everything to be explained. Sometimes it doesn't need to be.

As far as Western animation goes, I don't think it's dying, but I DO sometimes think that it was a mistake for 2D animation to almost completely drop off the map after Toy Story came out. Don't get me wrong, there have been some great CG films. But why did it have to go to the wayside so fast? I feel like at least around here in the U.S., if it's not CG, a lot of people aren't really interested, which is a shame. Things like Adventure Time and MLP prove that 2D animation still has some appeal (although it's probably more that if your writing is good it doesn't matter WHAT medium you put it in), I just don't understand why it fell so hard. Is it really more expensive to produce now? I would think that it's cheaper to some degree, and if it is, isn't that the route to go and use the extra money on your script and story to make sure it's well-written and well done? Could that have saved some of the more lackluster titles that came out using the CG format?

 

[laggyteabag]

I thought the film was okay, but this is coming from someone that A) Doesn't really like musicals, and B) Isn't the biggest fan of Disney movies. I think that a lot of my "meh"-ness came from the fact that when you are presented with a film that has critics and consumers alike raving about how it is the best animated movie ever of all time, it suddenly becomes a lot easier to pick the film apart when you do actually start to watch it. My biggest gripe with the film was just that one of the main plot-points is "you can save her, with loooooooooove" because that is, and always has been, a pretty lazy trope, but I felt that they did at least do something pretty interesting with Hans being evil, even if it was a complete 180 to his established character. If I liked musicals as a genre, would I have liked the film more? Probably, but as it stands, I had a lot more fun with How to Train Your Dragon 2.

 

[Mister K]

I think these are related to the thread:

I won't say that it was a BAD cartoon, but it was far from being good. I mean, OK, you have this baron guy who wants to claim the kingdom. He is obviously not well written, so you can focus on main characters. Why would you need a second antagonist? I personally would've prefered if it was like this: Red head is frozen, gets home, asks Hans to kiss her, he does so and nothing happens. They are confused, obviously. He then reveals that he doesn't actually love her etc., but in more of a guilty manner, because he simply wanted kind of a political marriage. He never expected this situation. He later helps out, true love, blah blah blah. And then at the end of the movie he goes back to his own land, saying that he had a change of heart. Or hell, maybe he even actually falls in love with Elza (that's the ice queen's name, right?), she with him, everyone is happy. But nooo, he must be a bad guy.

Also, as someone pointed out before, songs are bad.

Oh, and one more thing, 2 comic relief characters is 1 too many.

And one more thing. She understands that love is a source of control and poof, she controls her powers in a second? Really?

And one more thing. Rapunzel from Tangled may be a less serious character, but she has tons of willpower, she is a talented artist, self-taught in all disciplines and kind of more likable overall. Plus this particular cartoon had better villain, love interest and supporting cast.

 

[NPC009]

I liked it. I've never been into Disney movies all that much (I was more of a Don Bluth kid and I do not want to know what that says about me), and Frozen one was the first one I watched in many years. In any case, these active princesses are a lot more fun than those from the classics. On one hand we've got Elsa, who's basically going through 'Superhero Origin Story: The Musical', and on the other there's her tomboy sister Anna, who's trying to help her through that before the world freezes over. That's cool. I like that.

As for the critism:

-Yeah, Elsa's magic is very... magicky, but I think the gloves would be easily explained. Elsa is deadly afraid she will hurt someone with her powers and that thin layer makes her just a little less afraid. It's a psychological thing and just enough to help her keep her powers in check. Kinda like tiny fancy comfort blankets she wears on her hands.

-I thought Hans was a little too extreme, as well, but the movie did hint towards him not being what he seems. You see an evil grin here and there, like when Anna ask him to take care of the capital while she is gone. Or hey, the cross bow. And I have to admit, it was so much fun seeing the 'marry the first guy you meet' thing go so horribly wrong! Considering Disney's history with that trope it wouldn't have been half as entertaining had Hans been a decent guy who made a few bad decisions.

-As for stuff like love saving the day, Anna being indestructable and so on: it's a fairytale-like movie for children, it's not supposed to be realistic. And it wasn't any worse than other Disney films. I mean, look at Tangled, Flynn should have died within first five minutes instead of you know, the last five.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

It was good enough, I really enjoyed it the first time I watched it (my biggest issue was the songs, not the quality of them, but rather how often they showed up, it felt like too many songs even for a Disney movie). After a few rewatches though, it starts to get obnoxious. Part of that I think though is because of the obsessive media hype of Elsa's song and Frozen holiday marketing in general, the movie is getting old now and they just won't... let it go.

Is it really more expensive to produce now? I would think that it's cheaper to some degree, and if it is, isn't that the route to go and use the extra money on your script and story to make sure it's well-written and well done? Could that have saved some of the more lackluster titles that came out using the CG format?

2D animation is cheaper, but it's also a much more laborious process [footnote]There's a rule of thumb that 10 seconds of animation is 300 frames, you can draw all 300 of those frames yourself, maybe with the help of a few other people, or you can have a computer fill in the blanks in an hour of tweaking. There are, of course ways to make this less painful and computers will still do a lot of the work for you even in 2D animation, but the quality goes down and feature films are held to a "higher" standard. That being said The Secret of Kells is a gorgeous film, I wish it had sold better.[/footnote] and unfortunately doesn't sell well as big feature films anymore[footnote]although this may be a chicken and egg scenario[/footnote].

CG animation also has better reuse of assets. You only really need to make the models, rigs, environments, ext once, then you can keep using them for as long as they serve a purpose (including in sequels and sequels of sequels). You can reuse some things in 2D[footnote]such as backgrounds, walk cycles, ext[/footnote] but since you can't do things like freely rotate the camera inside of a castle, it's much easier for a viewer to call it out.[footnote]Like seeing the same background five times.[/footnote]

I do find it weird how adults obsess over movies made for tiny children, and it is a little discouraging.

......... It is very strange if you sit down to watch it above the age of 10 though, that is weird.

Just because a movie is made to appeal to children [footnote]Assuming we're talking specifically about movies with "children" as the target audience and you're not blanketing all animated movies as being only for children, because that's silly on a website that appeals to people who play video games.[/footnote], doesn't mean it's not partly created in consideration of adults or the parents. Haven't you ever heard of "getting it past the radar"? This is when films or shows aimed at children incorporate themes and jokes only adults will understand. Over the Garden Wall is absolutely filled with this.[footnote]Lots of footnotes in this post[/footnote][footnote]this is a footnote[/footnote][footnote]footnote footnote[/footnote]

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Am I right, or do you think that Frozen was actually an excellent well written film?

Are you "right"? Not in the slightest - all you have is an opinion, just like me and everyone else in this thread/world (although I'd say your 'points' about Hans and Anna are slightly ridiculous. the whole point was for the audience to buy that Hans was the typical stand-up The One guy. also, yeah, their montage sequence is a single night - and looks it - because it, well, was and is clearly shown to be).

For comparison I'm a lover of Kurosawa and Terrence Malick's films (Tree Of Life FTW), but I adore Frozen; easily my favourite Disney film (never been a fan anyway, to be fair), and maybe even my favourite Western animation, full stop.

Is Frozen somehow objectively perfect? No, but is anything [apart from Blade Runner]? I could go point to point on your textwall, but in the end it's just different folk having different reactions (you didn't like Anna? I wuv'd her. the songs? ditto, etc). Pretty sure I've seen it about six or seven times already, and I could shove it on now and still thoroughly enjoy the whole thing. Hell, because I've avoided it quite impressively out of the film, I still enjoy Elsa's snowgasm Let It Go when that scene comes up.

For one, I do love that it focuses on a familial bond between women, and that, by the end, neither is defined by a male partner (Elsa doesn't even need one). I find Anna adorable (and relatably normal/daft), and think the team and Kristen Bell did an incredible job making her an adorkable low-key heroine who has a rewarding personal journey alongside her sibling. As a whole, I think the facial animations and performances are just perfect; Frozen has soul and a great depth of humanity because of that.

And it managed to do something which barely any films do: surprise me. I didn't see the Hans twist coming, and I didn't see the sacrifice twist coming, either. I'm a big Marvel fan and MCU fan, and I think Frozen's a smarter, cannier made film than anything Marvel Studio's have put out. Frozen didn't just pull off surprises or little twists for the sake of cool set-pieces or story, its twists were integral to the overall themes and ideas of the film. There's a cohesion to its design that's quite remarkable.

...and oh yeah, I think it's bizarre to call Frozen a kid's film or made for little girls alone, and either of those things be in any way dismissive. Can't entertainment and art just be made for, well, everyone sometimes? Tiny kids enjoyed it, I enjoyed loved it, and so have a bunch of OAP's. It tells a positive, humane - and slightly feminist/subversive - tale, and that it's one of the most successful animations of all time is, to me, something to be thankful for (as opposed to something like Titanic's creepingly exploitative schmaltz, or Avatar's iffy racial politics and hypocrisy).

 

[putowtin]

Much prefer this version:

But yeah, it sucked and people need to get over it... I swear the next person to sing that song at me... I'll start swinging!

I'm just biding my time until Tangled becomes popular again. Viva la Tangled!

 

[JoJo]

It's a fairy tale, complaining about a fairy tale for being cliched is like complaining about water for being wet. The 'love saves the day by thawing a frozen heart' part isn't the most original device ever but it was in the original Snow Queen tale which Frozen is loosely based off, though between a boy and girl rather than two sisters, so you can hardly hold it against the film.

 

[Evonisia]

I haven't seen it - is it worth it? I'm really looking for a long string of yes/no posts here rather than lengthy explanation. If it helps, I watched Super 8 the other night and thought it was okay. I also watched Locke and thought it was pretty long and concretey.

Yes, if I remove all my personal hype and stuff over the thing it's a solid Disney film. Take that how you will.

4. Opinions on characters and music is just opinions. Let It Go has been in our top 40 for something crazy like 40ish weeks, so clearly the music and characters are popular.

Which is great for the US (though it didn't in the US), amazing in literally any other country in the world for context. It probably explains why everyone's so bloody sick of it though even if you leave aside people exposing themselves to the YouTube videos.

OT: Rule #7 of entertainment: If something is massively successful, popular and is considered good it will be open to people getting their nitpick on when they finally indulge in the product.

I've nothing to say that hasn't already been said regarding the list of points. Frozen is no Toy Story 3 level masterpiece like all the hype would probably suggest, but it's utterly solid with a plot that is shaky but isn't completely inept and has a nice message behind it. Hans being like that only to turn out to be the villain is meant to show kids to not just give their hearts away so quickly even if they seem like the one. Anna desperately tries loving Elsa like she actually lived a life with her because Anna is starved for attention and wants love from somebody who rejected her. Elsa actually doesn't try showing love back until Anna goes through all that effort to help her.

I imagine if the songs were better spread out people wouldn't complain about the quantity of them, given that they're mostly in the first Act and one final song as we enter the third Act.

I'd say Frozen was about as good a film as Tangled, which was less popular and wasn't gushed over until everybody's guts got tainted with plague. Surprise, people don't nitpick that film to death.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'd say Frozen was about as good a film as Tangled, which was less popular and wasn't gushed over until everybody's guts got tainted with plague. Surprise, people don't nitpick that film to death.

Oh, I will!

- The chameleon adds nothing to the plot at all, and conveniently disappears when the drama starts up.
- If Rapunzel's hair is so precious to Gothel and loses its power once severed, why in the name of God does she use it to climb the tower with instead of, you know... rope?
- Who's maintaining that grass outside of the tower? Looks pretty well kept. Or does Gothel just spend hours cutting that shit during summer?
- How is Rapunzel able to swim when she's never left that tower?
- And speaking off which, where does Rapunzel even go to the bathroom? I can't say I saw any sort of plumbing in that place. Unless she just chucks out the- ... Ewww!

Still, I love that movie.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

You forgot to mention how the entire plot is completely contrived because the King and Queen are complete fucking morons.

The king knows enough to know about the trolls and respect their wisdom and knowledge on magical things. That's why he takes Anna to them when she gets a frosty facial. After curing Anna, the troll shaman then gives the parents some advice, saying specifically that Elsa's power can be a great and beautiful thing or it can be terrible and destructive. What can make it terrible and destructive? Fear. Quote: "Fear is the enemy."

And so how do the parents interpret the shaman's wise words? "Let's lock Elsa away from EVERYONE because she's so incredibly dangerous, thus ensuring that she'll grow up to be absolutely terrified of herself and her powers." Which, in turn, leads to the rest of the plot of the movie. Had the parents, you know, actually listened to the troll shaman they would have known that it was a bad idea to lock Elsa away and teach her to fear herself because she's a monster who must always "conceal, don't feel" lest she haul off and kill someone. Not just a bad idea, but the exact opposite of what the troll - the only authority on magic in the movie that we're shown - tells them to do.

 

[Fractral]

Funny, I actually watched Frozen for the first time yesterday. It wasn't as good as everybody had hyped it up to be but by no means did that make it a bad film in my eyes. I was probably more inclined to dislike it than most, given that I had to spend a month living with half a dozen girls who would not stop singing the bloody soundtrack every minute of the freaking day but after watching it I think it was decent. Yeah, there are plot holes- big deal, every film has some- and some of the songs are a bit redundant but I enjoyed it and it managed to surprise me on at least one occasion.
As usual the actual quality of the film can be placed roughly in the middle of the opposing extremes.

 

[Therumancer]

I finally got around to watching Frozen, and I am completely stunned at how bad it is compared to how good it was hyped up to be. I will be going into complete spoilers so if you haven't seen it, and (for some reason) still want to, GET OUT!

Probably my biggest gripe with this movie is Elsa and her powers, they just make no sense at all. So for all her life, she is struggling to control her power and is completely unable to. The only way she can stop herself from randomly spurting out bursts of frost is to cover her hands with ordinary gloves. This doesn't really make sense as at one point she freezes a lake by stepping on it even though she isn't barefoot, but whatever. The important thing is that she has no control over her power, it just does whatever the heck it wants... That is until she climbs the mountain. Then she has absolute control over her power, she can create intricately designed staircases, floors, and chandeliers. She has so much control that she completely spears an attacking soldier to the wall using icicles without injuring him! If that doesn't require the keenest control over your power I don't know what does. And yet, even though she has such fine control, she is still completely unable to stop herself from somehow freezing the world. How does this even work? Why is she even affecting the city when before now she's needed to be in contact with the things that she freezes. She is so insanely powerful that she is basically an ice god, who can freeze the entire world in an instant. And she was just born like this? Just randomly her parents popped out an ice god? And even though she is an ice god with complete control over her power, she still has absolutely no control over her power. It just doesn't make sense and is never explained.

More than that, why wasn't Elsa ever sent to someone who could teach her to use her powers? The trolls obviously knew a lot about such things, why didn't she study with them? They said it was only going to get worse, but nobody ever thought to take the advice of the mystical wizard creatures that instantly cured the magic ice that Anna got in her eye? On that note, I also thought it was strange that ice to the head was an instant KO for Anna, but the far more deadly ice to the heart took forever to kick in. She's completely fine for like 15 minutes, and then after the song --boom-- she's dying. And the way they fix her blizzard? Love. Ugh, I'm going to puke. This is so cliche and stupid, yeah forget diligent training and self-control, you just need to love someone. This doesn't even make any sense anyway. Why did she confine herself to her room for all those years if not for love of her sister? Obviously she didn't want to hurt Anna again because she loved her.

Now onto my second biggest complaint: Hans. This guy. Like what the heck? For the whole movie he is characterized to be caring, kind, noble, and honorable, everything that a prince should be. Then completely out of nowhere he's suddenly the biggest sociopathic jerk who ever lived. Whatever happened to that old storytelling rule "show, don't tell"? For the whole movie we are shown that he is caring to Anna, and shares interests with her, while also having great chemistry. We are shown that he cares for the people under his rule, personally handing out blankets in the cold and maintaining order. The very second Anna's horse comes back without her he leads a charge into the frozen wasteland to find her. When he meets resistance at the ice palace he does battle with a freaking ice giant, risking life and limb in the hope of rescuing Anna and saving his people. Then when the dukes soldiers are about to kill Elsa, he interferes respecting Anna's love for her sister who is clearly causing a great catastrophe to befall the land. What proof do we have for him being a sociopath? We are simply told that he was just a manipulating douchebag that has no love whatsoever for Anna and just wants power. What? His character just pulls a complete 180. This guy's idea of an easy power grab involved fighting ice giants? Not to mention that he has to be one of the greatest actors ever to pull this off. From this point on he is simply the bad guy and loses all redeeming qualities.

A lot of people say that this movie turns the "love at first sight" trope on its head, but I don't think that's true at all. Hans and Anna's dating montage was far too good at giving the impression that their love was blooming and, personally, the montage made it seem like a fair deal of time had passed. I know it was supposed to be one night, but the montage doesn't give that impression. Also, it's implied that Kristoff hasn't met too many girls, living in the woods by himself, so Anna is probably the first girl he's gotten to know. How is that not the same as Hans and Anna's "love at first sight" or worse, since he's pretty much falling for the first girl he meets. The trolls also try to set them up, simply because she's the first girl he's brought home. Not to mention his whole diatribe against her marrying a guy she's only known a day was way out of line and just reeked of jealousy. It's not like Kristoff knew Anna for longer either. She knew both guys for about a day before deciding she was in love with them. No this movie completely failed at averting the trope, having two loves at first sight isn't really a whole lot more sophisticated that only having one. At least when there is only one, there is some evidence of their devotion. Basically once Kristoff came in as the new love interest the movie didn't know what to do with the old one of Hans and simply made him evil to get rid of him.

Speaking of Anna, I didn't really like her as a character. She was such a giddy moron that I could hardly stand her. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she fell off a balcony and broke her neck on the pavement, the way she was always carelessly dancing around at great heights. She nearly did this before Hans' horse caught her. Also there was that time she cut the supporting rope causing them to fall hundreds of feet, only to emerge completely unharmed, cause "there was snow at the bottom." Yeah, given how popular this movie is I wonder how long it will be until a kid breaks their legs jumping off the roof into a snow pile. Olaf, the brainless snowman was pretty annoying too, and I simply didn't find him to be at all funny.

Finally, the music. I just didn't like it, and I'm a person that likes musicals. There was way too much of it, it was like the movie couldn't go two minutes without breaking into another terrible song for no reason near the beginning. The songs themselves sounded like the same garbage that is heard on the radio all the time and completely lacked the magic of songs from other Disney movies such as The Little Mermaid. Also that Vuelie song at the beginning and end sounded a lot like Yub Nub from Star Wars to me. The songs never seemed to flow naturally in the story and were simply there because Disney movies have songs so they needed to have songs in the movie.

Overall, the story just felt mechanical and never gave enough depth to the characters or plot to make it feel real. I will admit that it was beautifully animated, but what isn't these days?

Holy wall of text, Batman! This got kind of long, didn't it? Anyway, what do you think? Am I right, or do you think that Frozen was actually an excellent well written film?

Spoilers:

The answer to your question is very similar: Liberal politics. This movie was pretty much pandering (intentional or otherwise) to deep left wing sentiments, hence it's praise despite being one of Disney's weaker movies over all.

The thing is that "Frozen" subverts the usual Disney tropes by pretty much mocking things like "love at first sight", having Prince Charming be an exploitive sociopath, and putting all of the power and agency in the hands of female characters. What's more Elsa doesn't wind up hitching herself to any male characters nor is she really rescued by one. What's more some reading into the body language (I believe Movie Bob has done this as well) have commented that Elsa might very well be Disney's "Lesbian Princess" given some of the burlesque inspired dance moves and such.

The basic idea here is that young girls will pretty much embrace any princess they are given, the success of Disney movies at this point being pretty much a given. Elsa being such a "good liberal icon" in the movie being more feminist in theme and possibly a lesbian is seen as a positive thing in indoctrinating them away from the "offensive Disney stereotype" of men saving or completing women, or women pretty much biding their time waiting for a guy to fall in love with, etc...

To be honest there isn't anything really wrong with a lot of this, though to be honest I find nothing wrong with traditional portrayals. It's just written like crap and is pretty much designed to beat you over the head with "oh look, at how edgy and liberal we're being, look at how in line we are with hipster politics" without really developing the story or it's concepts. We've mocked love at first sight, given the women primary agency, and made what would normally be the hero who saves the day into a first order douchebag, dropped some very subtle lesbian hints for those that want to read into them... but neglected everything else.

-

That said I get the impression that Elsa can do whatever she wants with Ice when she concentrates, and the thing she is focusing on happens, but due to her subconscious the power leaks and does whatever it's going to do. The gloves probably work by being a psychological focus, not because the clothing blocks her powers, but because he mind views them as doing so which keeps her subconscious under control. Throughout sci-fi and fantasy there have been similar things. That said the movie is not very explicit in setting up it's concepts, just beating you over the head with it's "messages" which was the intent of the film more than the story.

That said if they do make a sequel as they have been threatening I've been joking that they should get the rights from Ralph Bakshi and Frank Frazetta's estate to rip off "Fire and Ice" let Elsa go full villain and fill the role of "Nekron" maybe even taking the name. If we're going to go with dumb ideas it would be worth it just to see her sister pump iron and abuse 'roids to get a proper Frazetta build for the final battle... oh yeah and then they can call Olaf's "story arc" foreshadowing when he's the one to open the volcano at the end.

 

[SNCommand]

I've had no interest to see Frozen, and will likely never have one, so it subverts usual Disney tropes, that's fine and all, but other fairy tale movies have been subverting Disney tropes for the last few decades

Besides its subversion it looks like an unimpressive and shallow movie, I'll pass and let other people enjoy it as much as they want

 

[zumbledum]

-snip-
Holy wall of text, Batman! This got kind of long, didn't it? Anyway, what do you think? Am I right, or do you think that Frozen was actually an excellent well written film?

well i think your over thinking the mechanics a bit its a disney film for kids not not cutting edge art house sci fi. but i think the idea with the powers was it builds up and needs a release, she always had control of it when she chose to use it its just when she tried to bottle it up and deny it then it leaked out, i think its more a metaphor for denying your true self rather than a water tight intellectual exercise.

The prince , well he was always a lying cock sucker, the bad men dont always have hoofs and carry pitchforks, i certainly felt he was slimey and off before the reveal not sure what more they should of done really.

i thought it was good myself i mean given its a disney animated kids film but it got massively over hyped. havent felt the need to watch it a second time but was a pleasant hour and half or whatever.

 

[mecegirl]

Finally, the music. I just didn't like it, and I'm a person that likes musicals. There was way too much of it, it was like the movie couldn't go two minutes without breaking into another terrible song for no reason near the beginning. The songs themselves sounded like the same garbage that is heard on the radio all the time and completely lacked the magic of songs from other Disney movies such as The Little Mermaid. Also that Vuelie song at the beginning and end sounded a lot like Yub Nub from Star Wars to me. The songs never seemed to flow naturally in the story and were simply there because Disney movies have songs so they needed to have songs in the movie.

Yes. I agree with most of your points, but this one is incredibly true. I love musicals. I love musical movies. Yet, this was the first film ever to make me go "Oh god, this is going to be a musical, isn't it?" after the first half hour or so was nothing but SUNG EXPOSITION. The songs just don't mesh very well with the plot, nor do they drive it forward (like any musical's songs should, and Disney's usually do) - they just repeat what has already been established.

The Songs being very weak (yes, that includes Let It Go) didn't help. What makes this worse is that I actually like Idina Menzel as a singer - she was awesome in the concert version of Chess and displays her talent here as well - but she just wasn't given very good material to work with.

Overall, the movie was disappointing, especially given all the hype it received. Of all animation movies I watched lately, it was by far the weakest. Not really bad, mind you, just utterly forgettable and no real step forward in terms of musicals, animation or musical movies.

Oh, also the love plot twist: yeah, seemed clever at first, but was subverted WAY too obviously. There was far more room for nuance and proper conflict here.

Agreeing with all of this, as well as the op's main points.

I wasn't impressed with Frozen, and its so weird to see the change in tone between Frozen and Tangled. Tangled, even The Princess and the Frog impressed me more. With Frozen they didn't seem to trust their audience at all and felt the need to either sing explanations, or have the damn snowman state the obvious. Kids seemed to understand older Disney movies just fine without so much exposition, so why add so much now?

 

[Dagda Mor]

But yeah, it sucked and people need to get over it... I swear the next person to sing that song at me... I'll start swinging!

I'm just biding my time until Tangled becomes popular again. Viva la Tangled!

Dude, you've just gotta let it go.

OT: Tangled sucked.

 

[Entitled]

Probably my biggest gripe with this movie is Elsa and her powers, they just make no sense at all.

As opposed to what? Realistic, sensible ice magic powers?

This sounds a lot like a "real vampires don't sparkle!" argument. Your complaint seems to be that the ice magic doesn't follow the recent portrayal of superpower tropes with an origin story, a specific degree of control based on mental concentration, and "training".

The ice powers are a reflection of Else's inner emotions, and that's all there is to it. Also, "ice to the head" and "ice to the heart" are clearly not just blasts of freezing water, but "curses", given that the former's cure required influencing the mind, and the latter's effects strenghtened over time rather than melting from warmth. When "head" and "heart" are magical concepts representing personhood, you can't expect them to act like jars of water in terms of their reaction to cold.

. And the way they fix her blizzard? Love. Ugh, I'm going to puke. This is so cliche and stupid

You should have changed your MLP avatar before typing this. Would have been less hypocritical.

For the whole movie we are shown that he is caring to Anna, and shares interests with her, while also having great chemistry. We are shown that he cares for the people under his rule, personally handing out blankets in the cold and maintaining order.

They are NOT under his rule. He is not a prince of the land, he is a random foreigner whom Anna put in a trusted position and who is already using that to threaten others who would make a power play.

Hans and Anna's dating montage was far too good at giving the impression that their love was blooming

Seriously. Listen to the lyrics.

Anna: All my life has been a series of doors in my face
And then suddenly I bumped into you

Hans: I was thinking the same thing! 'Cause like
I've been searching my whole life to find my own place
And maybe it's the party talking or the chocolate fondue

Anna: But with you
Hans: But with you

Hans: I found my place
Anna: I see your face

Both: And it's nothing like I've ever known before....
Love is an open door
Love is an open door
Love is an open door.

Anna: With you
Hans: With you
Anna: With you
Hans: With you

Both: Love is an open door

Hans: I mean it's crazy
Anna: What?

Hans: We finish each other's
Anna: Sandwiches

Hans: That's what I was gonna say!

...
etc.

The only solo lines that Hans has in the song, are either singing in parallel with Anna's love song, but about the PLACE that he found, or blatantly pandering to Anna's hope that they have a lot in common. It's a manufactured love song, where Anna is singing and Hans is playing catch-up.

it's implied that Kristoff hasn't met too many girls, living in the woods by himself, so Anna is probably the first girl he's gotten to know. How is that not the same as Hans and Anna's "love at first sight" or worse, since he's pretty much falling for the first girl he meets.

The trolls also try to set them up, simply because she's the first girl he's brought home. Not to mention his whole diatribe against her marrying a guy she's only known a day was way out of line and just reeked of jealousy. It's not like Kristoff knew Anna for longer either. She knew both guys for about a day before deciding she was in love with them. No this movie completely failed at averting the trope, having two loves at first sight isn't really a whole lot more sophisticated that only having one.[/quote]

Except that Kristoff and Anna never made any claims about True Love at first sight. They spent an intense adventure together, and afterwards they are a blossoming relationship. THEY ARE NOT GETTING MARRIED BASED ON THAT ALONE.

There is nothing wrong with kissing a guy you met in the past few days, the problem is with seeing too much into a few cute gestures and throwing away your life for it.

 

[FPLOON]

I agree with you about the songs, I really didn't understand why people were so head over heels with them. Most of them didn't make an impact on me at all, "Let it Go" included. It baffles me why that song is so popular - comparing to the average Disney song, I wouldn't even put it in a top ten, and that was before I got so completely sick of hearing it everywhere. The only one I really, really liked was the ice-cutters song at the start, since it was very intense and atmospheric (though for whatever reason that seems to be the song that people don't like as much).

Yeah... The Frozen Heart, the song you're referring to, is such an underrated song, in my opinion, and it was the only song I enjoyed a lot more than I thought I was going to out of the whole movie... even to the point of wanting that song to be longer or something to that effect...

OT: Uh... OP? In referenced to Hans, did you really think his and Anna's little duet together proved that they were really finishing each other's sandwiches? I mean, REALLY finishing each other's sandwiches?

Anyway, I thought Frozen was an okay movie in general... The only things I didn't like were the parents, the trolls (and their fucking song), and how the best song in the movie, for me, is overshadowed by a song that, to its credit, does kinda work well with the movie itself, when you're watching the movie from start to finish, that is... or, at least, until Let It Go ends, I guess...

Other than that, Tangled was better and not because Frozen didn't have it's own version of "The Smolder" on hand...

I had a lot more fun with How to Train Your Dragon 2.

Well, some critics did say that HTTYD2 was "[more] fun than Frozen"... Or, at least, that's what the TV promos kept saying at the time...