How can "gamers" and "social justice warriors" get along?

[Erttheking]

The SJWs could stop trying to bully and repress people,

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to call foul. Bully and repress people? When a woman can't even criticize GTA V for not having good female characters and get rape threats over it, EVEN THOUGH SHE GAVE IT A NINE OUT OF TEN, I have to question whom is bullying whom here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABiPHyaKgTw

EDIT: What's more, I know we like to pick on COD fans, but I seriously doubt that people who buy games like that are responsible for stagnation in the industry. The industry needs to stop treating games as products if we're ever going to get some real innovation.

Never seen this review, I hated it, naturally, but the reaction was appalling, completely over the top, needlessly rude and aggressive. It was also sadly predictable.

The review was a classic case of SJW "fait accompli" story telling; endless claims about "misogyny", "problems with women" and the such all presented as fact and not as the opinion of someone desperately trying to underline their liberal credentials as they struggle to come to terms with their gender studies 101 syllabus. Many, many people, in fact the large majority don't care and/or don't believe this central claim that media should be forced, manipulated or has a duty to reflect some manufactured notion of total "equality". That's not how art works. Indeed, to suggest so is scary, Orwellian and wrong - no matter how wonderfully intentioned, it's still a minority trying to force their views on the majority at a fundamental level, the communication of ideas through art.

Even people you may think are bigots get to create bigot art! It's a really basic freedom to reflect the world as you see it. The only non-repressive "solution", or at least a more positive solution, is to create alternatives that reflect SJW views or that SJWs can enjoy and try to influence people this way. If done right, a game with a black, one legged lesbian with learning difficulties protagonist and her trans-gendered, Chilean lover who writes Haikus and struggles with body dis-morphia might sell very well (sorry that sounds like a piss take but I really think this would be the better approach and be surprisingly popular, I'd buy it, does that count? ).

These are two different issues though, SJWs don't get a +1000 flame resistant internet pass due the "justness" of their cause and anyone expressing any view on the internet is opening themselves up to dog's abuse. The comments on the review are vile but then so are they on a billion other vids and blogs.

Edit - I'd have thought that COD was the prime example of games as product and you ain't going to shift games from being products unless people stop handing over £1bn + every time some bugger releases the latest product! I do get your wider point though and it's strongly supported by some of the real innovation seen in "labour of love" inde games.

You hated it? How can you hate it? It gave Grand Theft Auto a nine out of ten. She complained about the lack of female characters, but it still shows that she thinks that the game is very good. Do you also hate Angry Joe's review of Metro Last Light? Which criticizes the gratious use of breasts, how the only female character with a name gets reduced from a tough soldier to a damsel in distress who has to be saved by the hero before screwing him and falling off the face of the Earth? And then gives the game a nine out of ten? Personally, as someone who loves Metro Last Light, I found that review to be very fair. It does a lot of things right, but Last Light's portrayal of women is nothing short of appalling.

At the beginning of this paragraph, you use a lot of cruel metaphors to say that the reviewer doesn't know what she's talking about. Yet you don't really explain why, you just sorta say she doesn't know what she's talking about. "Duty"? Please go back into that review and tell where the word "Duty" popped up. Because when a game manages to have so many characters that it needs eight different pages on TV Tropes

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/GrandTheftAutov

I think having a few female characters would've been easy. I really don't know why people think it's hard or limiting to have stories where the Male/Female ratio is higher than 10:1, or to have a female character or two that has agency and an impact on the plot. Orwellian? Criticizing the poor portrayal of female characters is Orwellian? And how is your criticizing of Call of Duty not Orwellian? You don't want people buying and playing a game you don't like! That sounds a Hell of a lot more Orwellian than a person criticizing one aspect of a game that they otherwise really liked!

Yeah, here's the thing though. Bigots have a right to create bigot art. And everyone has the right to tell them what a bigoted piece of trash that it is. Artistic freedom does NOT equal protection from criticism, and criticism does NOT equal bullying. Why can't people criticize games? Why can't we think critically about things we really care about? Like I said, I love Metro Last Light, I feel like it's the most atmospheric game I ever played. But the way it handled the character Anna was just horrible. Am I supposed to just keep my mouth shut about how horrible it was because SJWs (I HATE that term) should just be making their own game? No. No I won't. It was an awfully written character that was insulting to women and frankly, hurt the game's narrative. It would've been easy to make it so that Anna was just like every other Ranger, but they treated her less like a soldier because she was a woman. A love Metro Last Light, but loving something does not mean you ignore its flaws. It's in fact facing its flaws and realizing that you like it's strong points more than its flaws. To love a game without facing its flaws is blind love.

I didn't say that they did. I'm saying that there is something really wrong with the world when a woman can give one minor complaint about female characters in an otherwise glowing review and people throw a fit over it. And? How does that make it any better?

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

For me, games and real life are different. Are women helpless? NO. Are they equal? YES. Does my opinion change just because i play a game where i save a women or watch a movie where the women is helpless. NO. Im a man with a mother and 3 sisters - is it wrong for me to want them safe regardless if they are capable? NO. Same as i know my sisters and mother want me safe and will stick up for me. People really need to be realistic instead of treating entertainment as reality. To different things. Or should we give animals more rights due to talking animals in movies?

Thing is when the social rights people start acting like PETA, then you have problems. Or do people think you have to have gays or trans gens in everything to be accepted in real life? Yeah, doesnt work that way. It takes time. Same way just making a character black wouldnt have forwarded black equality at all 50 years ago.

Also, when your talking about social justice. I play games where most of the characters are like me. Most males are muscle bound idiots, which is not me. I play the game, not the character. I can watch a movie about slavery or a documentary about the jews in WW2 concentration camps without needing to be black or jewish to understand. People just confuse changing stuff in games to changing stuff in real life.

All these idiots (like PETA) should just concentrate on real life injustice not a bunch of video games. Sorry, but your attentions are wasted on stuff that doesnt matter (entertainment that is, the real life issues about injustice you should deal with as thats where the real change will happen).

 

[psijac]

People with agendas don't care about you. All they want is for their agenda to be pushed forward. No matter the cost to your work or fun. Think about every alphabet organization out there NSA, OSHA, NOW, PETA, MDA has any of those angry armies made a game MORE fun for you? Or made work easier for you?

 

[ultratog1028]

Considering most SJW's are neurotic, cry-babies who spend large portions of their lives screaming
at max volume at non-issues,

So they have more in common with Gamers then we thought

 

[NoeL]

No, but there are a lot of progressive activists out there who are a lot less polite than you.

In other words, you're cherry picking. It's not conducive to conversation if you just point at the idiots and say "These people can't be reasoned with!" - especially when you're in the middle of a reasonable conversation with one.

To be blunt, people outside of gaming (and few people truly are these days) don't matter

And that's the fundamental divide between our positions. Progressives are interested in growing the industry, getting as many people as possible interested in gaming, which in turn will produce an interesting and diverse landscape in the future - the same way movies have gone. We're interested to see what fresh and new experiences people unfamiliar with gaming conventions can bring to the table. Some indies are doing this already, but most just want to recreate games from their childhood.

Conservatives want to keep gaming to themselves, have it be "their thing" that caters only to them, churning out the same safe, familiar experiences ad infinitum. They're not interested in artsy, experimental games and don't want any focus taken away from delivering the things they are interested in. To me it just seems selfish to want to hog the medium to yourself.

and if they're not buying games, why should companies cater to their tastes?

So that they do buy games. It's funny how we see the situation from two opposite sides: you say publishers should only cater to the existing market, I say the existing market is only there because they're the only ones being catered to. Of course I don't believe that if EA released Knitting Simulator 3000 the elderly woman market would explode overnight, as that would be ridiculous, but if you start small and target people on the fringes of gaming (like people that play games on smartphones) you can steadily grow that audience outwards.

(off topic, I'm pretty sickened by how the industry has taken advantage of the ignorance of non-gamers in the emerging smartphone market, but eventually as people get more familiar with gaming they'll get fed up with the audacity of it all and a more reasonable price ceiling for mobile games will naturally emerge. So overall I think it's a good thing, but it's the ugly wild west at the moment)

Sure, there's an argument to be made for people who are nonplussed by the games currently available but who potentially could be enticed by different games - but I'd consider them already within the broader sphere of gaming. But overall, I'd like games companies to cater to gamers, not non-gamers; that just seems like common sense.

See above, I guess.

Sorry, but I still consider most of this reasoning incorrect. Within popular media there's a huge amount of cross-cultural appeal. I have Indian friends who listen to RnB, I know black people who are huge Anime fans. There are whole communities of white kids who love Japanese/Korean culture and media. Far from the cultural divide being some impassable barrier, it's something that people cross every day, and in some cases actually seek out in part because of the appeal of exoticism or cultural differences.

Again, I'm not sure you're really getting your head around what I'm saying. I'm not saying cross-cultural appeal doesn't exist, I'm not saying you need to be part of the target demographic to enjoy the media, I'm saying that target demographics do exist and that the main consumers of a certain type of media are the ones that fit that target demographic. I don't deny you have Indian friends that listen to RnB, but would you say they outnumber the blacks that listen to RnB? And would you say the Indians that listen to RnB outnumber the Indians that listen to music targeted towards Indians?

I remember about a decade or so ago Australian hip-hop started getting quite popular here (in Australia). Prior, American hip-hop was pretty niche compared to the more mainstream pub rock, but when hip-hop featuring Australian themes and accents started getting air time it pretty quickly found mainstream appeal and quite a few Aussie hip-hop posses sprung up in the wake of its popularity. That's just an example of an existing product finding a whole new market by appropriating things that interest the "out group". No one cared about American hip-hop because there was nothing relatable for them, but give it an Australian flavour and you've suddenly created a new, substantial market.

I'd also challenge the idea that white males make games starring white males that you need to be a white male gamer to fully enjoy. I can enjoy playing Sonic The Hedgehog despite being neither a hedgehog nor a Japanese programmer. I can enjoy Tetris despite not being Russian. My middle-aged mother has played Age of Empires (1, vanilla) daily for the past 10 years despite it being a game about warfare, full of men, and presumably developed by a male-majority team.

I didn't even put forward that idea in the first place, so I don't know why you'd challenge it.

None of this is an argument against diversity, and as I said before I think diversity and variety are desirable if just for interest and appeal. But I flat-out disagree with the idea that we NEED a mirroring type of representation to enjoy games, let alone representation of our own demographic in development. (And hell, foreign dev teams tend to make games that are indistinguishable from the mainstream anyway - Minecraft doesn't have a notably Swedish aesthetic to it, GTA V isn't full of Scottish accents, etc).

See my above example with Aussie hip-hop. There was a big shift from people that didn't like hip-hop to people that did like hip-hop, and the catalyst for that shift was the insertion of something culturally relevant to that market. In other words, Australia was represented in the hip-hop scene, and suddenly more Australians became interested in hip-hop. Did they "NEED" it? No - there were smaller number of people that already listened to hip-hop coming out of the US. Did it nevertheless massively increase the number of hip-hop consumers? Absolutely.

1 - I don't think it's possible to puff out our chests, put our hands on our hips, and tell a billion-dollar worldwide industry to change on a dime. This whole metaphor of "battling" and "winning the war" is a red herring. It's about placing pebbles in the stream now and seeing the course of the water change miles downstream. Or you can try standing under a waterfall and shouting "I've decided water should go up from now on, wurgleblurgle glubglub blubble", that's fine too. Just don't take it personally when you get soaking wet and the water obstinately carries on falling downwards.

A bit of a massive failure of analogy there. Water is a non-sentient liquid that's always going to follow the path of least resistance and obey gravity. The AAA gaming industry is full of sentient people that follow market trends, and if something is unpopular in the market they're not going to just keep plodding along into irrelevance. They're going to do what they have to to remain profitable. Hell, just look at all the backtracking Microsoft did with the Xbox One after nothing but people puffing out their chests, putting their hands on their hips and telling the billion-dollar company to change on a dime (mostly with their wallets. I cant remember if the changes started coming before or after the PS4 started smashing them in pre-orders, but I think it was after).

2 - We could make exactly the same argument for keeping things the way they are - if current gamers don't mind the tropes, and the people who do object buy the games anyway, it's not hurting sales... not that I think that's a good thing, I'm just pointing out that you can't blame the market for taking the path of least resistance.

Yeah, but you have to assume the people that find modern gaming objectionable are buying the product anyway, and that's just not the case (why would they?). So no, you can't really make the same argument. Not a compelling one at least. In fact, no, you can't even make that argument at all.

Let's say a game sells 1 million copies, 100,000 of those sales are from people that find the game objectionable but bought it anyway, and there are 100,000 other people that were interested but found the game too objectionable to warrant a purchase.

If they keep the game as is, they sell 1 million. If they make a change to remove the objectionable bit, they sell 1.1 million instead. Win win. For that not to be the case there would have to be 100,000+ people that found the removal of that objectionable content objectionable enough to lose their sale, and in cases where publishers are only adding freedom (for example, a choice of gender for your avatar) I just don't see that happening.

Really? Sarkeesian started her kickstarter a little over two years ago (I don't want to derail the discussion, and of course it's not all about her, but she marks the point where the zeitgeist changed). What have the results been of that? The discourse has become more politically charged, and possibly a few devs have avoided adding features that they thought would be crucified by the increasingly shouty and left-wing gaming press - but where's the blossoming creativity, the innovation, the wonderful spectrum of new directions and new possibilities that appeal to an ever-broadening community of gamers? It hasn't happened. In fact, there's been no inkling of all of this negative and accusatory fist-shaking having had any positive or tangible effect at all. Please set me straight if I'm incorrect in thinking that.

Because it's only been two years. The games coming out now would have started development before this shift in culture even began, and besides that the progressive voice still hasn't gotten loud enough to make the big wigs pay any serious attention (and probably won't until they inevitably get burned by it). Just give it time.

 

[Erttheking]

Considering most SJW's are neurotic, cry-babies who spend large portions of their lives screaming
at max volume at non-issues, I DON'T want to get along with them. I don't want them to get along with anyone else. I want them, their pathetic parody of humanitarism, their crap arguments, all of it, to fail.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SV2t29C9Hc4/Udip0f3dFUI/AAAAAAAAAS4/6Kjr827vRPw/s1600/Strawman+playbackups+com.jpg

I don't find your arguments to be particularly accurate, nor compelling. In reality they have no basis in fact and seem to be pure bias given the form of statements.

 

[Bombiz]

I'm honestly tired of this whole "war". I've seen both sides of it and I can honestly say both have been acting immature and crazy.
I'm just going to wait and see which side wins.

 

[AlexWinter]

You can be a gamer and an SJW.

OT: I don't think gamers and SJWs can get along if gamers don't want to be SJWs because SJWs hate people that don't want to be SJWs.

Why wouldn't you hate someone that doesn't want things to change for the better?

 

[FriendlyFyre]

You ready for this? I just finished reading a book on the subject of oppression and privilege, and I think I can give this thread a pretty definite answer.

In essence, like most art forms, in recent years video games have begun maturing, and this means that we can now critique them as more then just a kid's diversion. And now that people are doing so, we're facing a lot of uncomfortable truths.

Because the gaming market is over-saturated with white, heterosexual protagonists who conform to a pretty specific form of masculinity, we've come to think of this as the norm, with every other sexuality, race, or gender as being a diversion. Problem is that for gamers who don't fit this profile, this leaves them feeling left out of the narrative, or even worse, finds their culture/sexuality used mockingly (gay or ethnic stereotypes) or with unfortunate implications (Evil bisexual characters, black characters portrayed as "exotic")

What we're encountering here, what we usually call "People being too sensitive/SJWs being assholes" are issues being raised that many of us have never had to think about before, issues that we have been privileged not to thanks to our class/gender/race/sexual orientation.

According to the book I read, no talk of treating people with equality and dignity can be established until we learn to see how our privilege interacts with others, because while one person may feel they are being treated fairly, another may not, and point out that they only think it's "fair" because they haven't had to deal with certain things (Example, being followed around a store due to their race, and no, this doesn't mean the person is just a racist, because it's too widely documented a phenomenon)

Anyway, the bigger point I'm trying to make is that once you begin to see this inequality, as most so-called SJWs do, they opt to bring attention to it. It might not be nice, and often they are aware that what they say will not be received well, but they do it because for too long these issues have been either ignored, or labeled as "minority problems. Letting these little things slide may not SEEM like a big deal ("Oh my god, why are you so sensitive to EVERYTHING?) but what they represent is called a "Path of least resistance," or avoiding thinking about the problem so we don't have to do anything about it.

What many gamers see as personal attacks, or reverse racism, or just plain self righteousness, is not seen as such in their eyes, but merely attempts to get others to acknowledge the problems in a way that will get us thinking about the issue as more then just "something that happens to other people." While many claim there are better, more "effective" ways of doing this, the reality is many people have been dealing with these things for so long that to ask they to be "nice" about it is kind of belittling.

But the ULTIMATE INSIGHT is that SJWs are NOT GOING TO STOP. Because privilege is neither something that goes away, nor something we can just ignore under the guise of being "Good people,"and games and gamers are equally affected by it. Us gamers may not like it, we may want to rescue the princess, save the villagers, or play around in our Japanese themed wonderland, but those who are aware of male privilege, "The white savior trope," and cultural appropriation will draw attention to these because they see them as problems that we avoid discussing, and which leads to feelings frustration for many.

So, the answer to how gamers and SJWs can get along has two parts, though they boil down to the same thing; awareness and willingness to listen rather then be offended (Because we recognize that we probably know relatively little thanks to our privilege). Gamers need to acknowledge their privilege in various areas and stop trying to tell others that they can't be offended by things, as well as recognizing that some of these things, though small, may be very important when it comes to people feeling included, or their culture respected. And second, gamers, really everyone, would do well to measure how important it is for these conversations, which often deal with subjects that many of us likely don't have much experience in, are "friendly" when so many of the people bringing up the issues have had to constantly deal with their experience being downplayed ("Creepy guys trying to talk to you on the bus? At least you're not living under Sharia law!")

As for how what the SJWs can do to get along, I'd say that acknowledging creative freedom being just as important as sensitivity to viewers would make them less likely to look like an enemy to games. But because so much of this revolves around privilege, cis, hetero, male gamers may have to do more thinking and independent research then they think they need to, as well as acknowledging that "It's just a game, who cares what's in it as long as it plays well" is a surefire way to show they aren't paying attention to their privilege.






tl;dr Gamers need to stop dismissing these issues and do some independent research on them, and stop attacking SJWs just because they aren't necessarily "polite," even when it doesn't seem fair. Because ignoring the problem hasn't been healthy for lots of gamers who haven't been represented well in games.

 

[Angelblaze]

Considering most SJW's are neurotic, cry-babies who spend large portions of their lives screaming
at max volume at non-issues, I DON'T want to get along with them. I don't want them to get along with anyone else. I want them, their pathetic parody of humanitarism, their crap arguments, all of it, to fail.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SV2t29C9Hc4/Udip0f3dFUI/AAAAAAAAAS4/6Kjr827vRPw/s1600/Strawman+playbackups+com.jpg

I don't find your arguments to be particularly accurate, nor compelling. In reality they have no basis in fact and seem to be pure bias given the form of statements.

Go on r/Tumblrinaction for 5 minutes and you'll see how terrible these people can be.

I hope you realize that /r/TumblrinAction is a subreddit specifically made to make Tumblr look bad by focusing on the few assholes there are and not the massive amount of:
Fangirls donating the actors favorite causes, sometimes reaching thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in charity money through Tumblr alone.
Aspiring artists like SakimiChan and kanapy and ionahi who make absolutely incredible art
Aspiring writers like Not-poignant and myself who write freely for the masses.

And those are just the start of the awesome posts.

Basically....TumblrinAction is the 'BadCopNoDonut' or /b of Tumblr. It is one segment of the site that people use to smear the popularity of a group of people in order to make themselves feel better about themselves.

 

[Angelblaze]

Considering most SJW's are neurotic, cry-babies who spend large portions of their lives screaming
at max volume at non-issues,

So they have more in common with Gamers then we thought

Difference is that 99% of gamers don't get pissed about minor non-issues.

True, but that 1% that does get pissed about minor non issues is really freaking loud.

They're annoying, sure. But the difference is that SJW are 99% screamers. Every single time some pyschotic posts on their tumblr about how the world should cater to them, or how they're fucking special and perfect, or how those oh-so-evil white men told them not to aimlessly whine, nobody from their own movement calls them out on their bullshit. With gamers everyone with a working brain cell, when some gamers do questionable/stupid things they know it and tell them that they're being stupid.

Surprise. People see themselves through rose colored glasses. On the internet.
And no, that last sentence is wrong.

Spoiler for NSFW

Spoiler

Do you have any idea how many rape threats I've gotten just from talking in voice chat during games - from 'large' party groups (as in, friends who know each other, primarily male)? None of them tell each other the calm it the fuck down, when someone threatens to "spread my ass nice and wide", even when I tell them to fuck off, I get messages and continued threats and shit. It doesn't matter if I play better then them, worse then them or just about equal, I don't even have to say anything insulting or really anything of measure. A simple 'good job' and that's all it takes to have guys filling my inbox with un-wanted flirts.

If I don't respond within a day or so, they message me and tell me what a ***** I am, how much of a whore I am, etcetc.

If you want to keep raising up tumblr's worst, I introduce you to http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

A site that shows exactly why gamers are being attacked by SJW's in the first place: because you have extremely visible assholes, just like we do.

For everyone who thinks 'oh, lol. SJW's are over the top, not that many rude gamers. We're blameless little angels.'
http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

The site comes complete with various types of insults, filed under things such as 'Stepford Mentality' and 'Crudely Creative', amongst others!

Here's one look at some submitted content!


Enjoy.

 

[Angelblaze]

Considering most SJW's are neurotic, cry-babies who spend large portions of their lives screaming
at max volume at non-issues,

So they have more in common with Gamers then we thought

Difference is that 99% of gamers don't get pissed about minor non-issues.

True, but that 1% that does get pissed about minor non issues is really freaking loud.

They're annoying, sure. But the difference is that SJW are 99% screamers. Every single time some pyschotic posts on their tumblr about how the world should cater to them, or how they're fucking special and perfect, or how those oh-so-evil white men told them not to aimlessly whine, nobody from their own movement calls them out on their bullshit. With gamers everyone with a working brain cell, when some gamers do questionable/stupid things they know it and tell them that they're being stupid.

Surprise. People see themselves through rose colored glasses. On the internet.
And no, that last sentence is wrong.

Spoiler for NSFW

Spoiler

Do you have any idea how many rape threats I've gotten just from talking in voice chat during games - from 'large' party groups (as in, friends who know each other, primarily male)? None of them tell each other the calm it the fuck down, when someone threatens to "spread my ass nice and wide", even when I tell them to fuck off, I get messages and continued threats and shit. It doesn't matter if I play better then them, worse then them or just about equal, I don't even have to say anything insulting or really anything of measure. A simple 'good job' and that's all it takes to have guys filling my inbox with un-wanted flirts.

If I don't respond within a day or so, they message me and tell me what a ***** I am, how much of a whore I am, etcetc.

If you want to keep raising up tumblr's worst, I introduce you to http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

A site that shows exactly why gamers are being attacked by SJW's in the first place: because you have extremely visible assholes, just like we do.

For everyone who thinks 'oh, lol. SJW's are over the top, not that many rude gamers. We're blameless little angels.'
http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

The site comes complete with various types of insults, filed under things such as 'Stepford Mentality' and 'Crudely Creative', amongst others!

Here's one look at some submitted content!


Enjoy.

Yes, there's fuckin jerks in the world. I get it. The problem is that SJWs act like anti-social, pyschotic, sexist, misanthropes and get away with it. It doesn't take 5 minutes of searching through tumblr for the words misandry, kill all men or anything else you can think of to find some sexist, bigoted, asshole. When gamers act like morons they are universally reviled, not only by their peers but by the rest of the world and media. When SJWs propose that men should be slaughtered en masse nobody bats an eye.

You do realize everything you've just said is an anti-thesis for your own point right?

You are batting an eye.

You see that, right?

 

[Angelblaze]

Considering most SJW's are neurotic, cry-babies who spend large portions of their lives screaming
at max volume at non-issues,

So they have more in common with Gamers then we thought

Difference is that 99% of gamers don't get pissed about minor non-issues.

True, but that 1% that does get pissed about minor non issues is really freaking loud.

They're annoying, sure. But the difference is that SJW are 99% screamers. Every single time some pyschotic posts on their tumblr about how the world should cater to them, or how they're fucking special and perfect, or how those oh-so-evil white men told them not to aimlessly whine, nobody from their own movement calls them out on their bullshit. With gamers everyone with a working brain cell, when some gamers do questionable/stupid things they know it and tell them that they're being stupid.

Surprise. People see themselves through rose colored glasses. On the internet.
And no, that last sentence is wrong.

Spoiler for NSFW

Spoiler

Do you have any idea how many rape threats I've gotten just from talking in voice chat during games - from 'large' party groups (as in, friends who know each other, primarily male)? None of them tell each other the calm it the fuck down, when someone threatens to "spread my ass nice and wide", even when I tell them to fuck off, I get messages and continued threats and shit. It doesn't matter if I play better then them, worse then them or just about equal, I don't even have to say anything insulting or really anything of measure. A simple 'good job' and that's all it takes to have guys filling my inbox with un-wanted flirts.

If I don't respond within a day or so, they message me and tell me what a ***** I am, how much of a whore I am, etcetc.

If you want to keep raising up tumblr's worst, I introduce you to http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

A site that shows exactly why gamers are being attacked by SJW's in the first place: because you have extremely visible assholes, just like we do.

For everyone who thinks 'oh, lol. SJW's are over the top, not that many rude gamers. We're blameless little angels.'
http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

The site comes complete with various types of insults, filed under things such as 'Stepford Mentality' and 'Crudely Creative', amongst others!

Here's one look at some submitted content!


Enjoy.

Yes, there's fuckin jerks in the world. I get it. The problem is that SJWs act like anti-social, pyschotic, sexist, misanthropes and get away with it. It doesn't take 5 minutes of searching through tumblr for the words misandry, kill all men or anything else you can think of to find some sexist, bigoted, asshole. When gamers act like morons they are universally reviled, not only by their peers but by the rest of the world and media. When SJWs propose that men should be slaughtered en masse nobody bats an eye.

You do realize everything you've just said is an anti-thesis for your own point right?

You are batting an eye.

You see that, right?

I'm referring to the majority of human beings who are not immediatley involved in the subject. People who come to sites to just read news storys, the average human beings, don't give a shit when SJWs act like misanthropic, "holier-than-thou" jerks. People do give a shit when gamers act like jerks. And when someone uses the screen name Misandry Mermaid, gets away with it and then associates with a movement that endorses said behavior, I refuse adamantly to associate that movement with good feelings, of "bring equality to the world".

So you completely ignored my argument for that part right?

Gamers do not turn around and immediately call out other gamers - I've seen it happen, I've been a victim to the 'mob mentality' of gamers.

Copying and pasting my spoiler argument from back up, with bolding around the parts that deal with the current topic.
Again, NSFW.

Spoiler

Do you have any idea how many rape threats I've gotten just from talking in voice chat during games - from 'large' party groups (as in, friends who know each other, primarily male)? None of them tell each other the calm it the fuck down, when someone threatens to "spread my ass nice and wide", even when I tell them to fuck off, I get messages and continued threats and shit. It doesn't matter if I play better then them, worse then them or just about equal, I don't even have to say anything insulting or really anything of measure. A simple 'good job' and that's all it takes to have guys filling my inbox with un-wanted flirts.

If I don't respond within a day or so, they message me and tell me what a ***** I am, how much of a whore I am, etcetc.

If you want to keep raising up tumblr's worst, I introduce you to http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

A site that shows exactly why gamers are being attacked by SJW's in the first place: because you have extremely visible assholes, just like we do.

And this isn't just 'Call of Duty xbox 360' kids either. This is just about every voice involved game I've been on with the keen and very close exception of Dota 2 - you'd be surprised how nice people are there. And yes. DOTA 2.

 

[Bombiz]

[qoute=Angelblaze]And this isn't just 'Call of Duty xbox 360' kids either. This is just about every voice involved game I've been on with the keen and very close exception of Dota 2 - you'd be surprised how nice people are there. And yes. DOTA 2.[/quote]

I find it very hard to believe that a MOBA community let alone DOTA 2 is the nicest voice communities out there and is even better then something like COD or Counter Strike .

 

[Bombiz]

Woops double post

 

[Erttheking]

Considering most SJW's are neurotic, cry-babies who spend large portions of their lives screaming
at max volume at non-issues, I DON'T want to get along with them. I don't want them to get along with anyone else. I want them, their pathetic parody of humanitarism, their crap arguments, all of it, to fail.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SV2t29C9Hc4/Udip0f3dFUI/AAAAAAAAAS4/6Kjr827vRPw/s1600/Strawman+playbackups+com.jpg

I don't find your arguments to be particularly accurate, nor compelling. In reality they have no basis in fact and seem to be pure bias given the form of statements.

Go on r/Tumblrinaction for 5 minutes and you'll see how terrible these people can be.

I've spent a good deal of time on tumblr, and I've only ever found a handful of people that are iritable about the subject, and none that meet your blown out of proportion straw men. And the irritable ones took more than five minutes to find. I find your arguments to be flawed.

 

[Dragonbums]

-snip-

I've been following your conversations in this thread for a while.

I find it funny that you claim that SJW's are neurotic, insane, whatever overblown description you can find of them, and yet your posts...are nothing short of the very thing you are claiming.

Seriously man. Take a breather. You got all bent out of shape in one post about some troll having a username called "Misandry Mermaid" to start a movement that clearly never took off on Xbox Live of all places. The hub of such fine dialect like ******, Spicks, Get Back In the Kitchen jokes, and anything that can even remotely hurt someone's feelings. And someone calling themselves Misandry Mermaid is the epitome of trash?

Honestly, as someone who frequents tumblr a lot, you really have to go out of your way to so much as sniff these people. That's how prevalent "SJWs" are. In the larger scale of things they don't exist. It's another internet boogeyman that the more isolated gamer community made up. A buzzword.

SJW is only used the very moment someone says I wish "X" was in this game, and the next thing you know he/she is dogpiled and accused of taking away "artistic freedom" (hilarious in and of itself considering how most games are focus grouped, checklisted to hell.), insane, and need to stfu. All the while those same people leave death, rape, and abuse threats because as we all know that's an appropriate response to something petty like this on Youtube.

Oh, and while were at it, lets get mad at old farts saying videogames aren't art, yet at the same time you defend it as an artistic medium you also don't want people to criticize their representation, overall meaning, and impact and reflection of society. Things that mediums with artistic merit are subject to on a daily basis.

 

[FriendlyFyre]

Considering most SJW's are neurotic, cry-babies who spend large portions of their lives screaming
at max volume at non-issues, I DON'T want to get along with them. I don't want them to get along with anyone else. I want them, their pathetic parody of humanitarism, their crap arguments, all of it, to fail.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SV2t29C9Hc4/Udip0f3dFUI/AAAAAAAAAS4/6Kjr827vRPw/s1600/Strawman+playbackups+com.jpg

I don't find your arguments to be particularly accurate, nor compelling. In reality they have no basis in fact and seem to be pure bias given the form of statements.

Go on r/Tumblrinaction for 5 minutes and you'll see how terrible these people can be.

I hope you realize that /r/TumblrinAction is a subreddit specifically made to make Tumblr look bad by focusing on the few assholes there are and not the massive amount of:
Fangirls donating the actors favorite causes, sometimes reaching thousands to tens of thousands of dollars in charity money through Tumblr alone.
Aspiring artists like SakimiChan and kanapy and ionahi who make absolutely incredible art
Aspiring writers like Not-poignant and myself who write freely for the masses.

And those are just the start of the awesome posts.

Basically....TumblrinAction is the 'BadCopNoDonut' or /b of Tumblr. It is one segment of the site that people use to smear the popularity of a group of people in order to make themselves feel better about themselves.

I've yet to see anything particularily positive come from Tumblr. Mainly it's just whining about how the world doesn't love them enough for doing nothing.

You obviously haven't seen the "Gifs of people falling into Satan's parlor" post then.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/portal-to-hell
Or did you just mean the progressive side of Tmbl?

 

[TemplarofSteel]

Well, if you want the easy way, gamers can keep ignoring problems and the people that care about equal and egalitarian societies just keep pushing on and accept that a lot of the gamers just aren't interested because they are in a state of cannot be bothered. I could point out that ultimately worrying about this stuff is important because small issues are symptomatic of bigger ones. White straight male protagonists being the default in almost every game, and the fact that we seem to view the idea of any kind of diversity in that as being a great burden or something little seems kind of, well petulant.

In a similar argument, is it really SUCH a big deal to demand that a certain kind of people sit at the back of the bus instead of the front? Or to say that we don't think that CERTAIN people showing affection in public is appropriate? The fact is that we are saying as a society that one group or another is unwanted or lesser. It matters in video games too, when the 'default' is the same kind of person it says that culturally we think that that is what a hero is, that is what and who can get things done, the fact that most of our ability to get a minority or female character are in avatar type games is fairly telling, apparently studios aren't really interested in portraying women or others unless it's in something that also tends to options of other species (elves, orks, aliens, etc.) with a couple of exceptions. Hell, COD with it's endless samey military shooter crap can't even be bothered to give us female soldiers, because of course only men can be heroic badasses in vaguely racist military power fantasies right?

The problem isn't that the social justice warriors are whining, it's that gamers are whining about being called on their privilege or to maybe think about what they play. You yourselves aren't being accused of being part of the problem, the industry is mostly to blame for this and it can be fixed with people showing that our culture is better than that. But if you're going to whine and cry at the idea of other people being given a seat at the table, if you think there has to be justification for a hero to be something other than a white guy who's straight...well then maybe you are part of the problem, and if that bothers you, then think about trying to fix it.

 

[LAGG]

Easily-offended individuals will always find something to be offended with. There's nothing that can be done about that.