If someone is accusing you wrongly for whatever reason either don't dignify them a retort or call them out on Mccarthyism, which ever is most appropriate.
How do you argue that you're not homophobic/racist/etc?
- Thread starter Headsprouter
- Start date
To quote the late, great Dr. Stephen T. Colbert,
Let's see if I can throw in anymore throwaway meme-like responses to the subject...naw, too lazy...just like those filthy bla-
That'll do.
But seriously, OP, once someone "decides" that you are x/y/z then you're pretty much out of luck when it comes to trying to convince them otherwise. The sort of person who applies a label like that and rigorously sticks to it despite evidence to the contrary is really not someone you should be wasting your time explaining yourself to anyway.
Or, alternatively, I direct people to the Avenue Q song:
Let's see if I can throw in anymore throwaway meme-like responses to the subject...naw, too lazy...just like those filthy bla-
That'll do.
But seriously, OP, once someone "decides" that you are x/y/z then you're pretty much out of luck when it comes to trying to convince them otherwise. The sort of person who applies a label like that and rigorously sticks to it despite evidence to the contrary is really not someone you should be wasting your time explaining yourself to anyway.
I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways, you can;t say you like them as people yet be against their basic human rights (as in the right to marry and love whom they wish without persecution)Mad World said:
that kind of thinking is the very height of condescending "I know whats best for you" rationalisation that led to gay conversion camps and all the bullshit therein
One of the dumbest, most deluded things I've ever read, alongside "I don't mind gay people, I just don't want MY kid to be one" and "I'm not racist, I just don't agree with inter-racial marriage". Woooow.Mad World said:
Doesn't really matter to me what people think I think.
Hell, I don't even think any of those are necessarily bad things until you act on them. I believe they can't help being weirded out by gay people any more than gay people can help liking dudes.
Hell, I don't even think any of those are necessarily bad things until you act on them. I believe they can't help being weirded out by gay people any more than gay people can help liking dudes.
I don't argue whether or not I am racist/homophobic/etc as I find it a waste of time and effort. If someone I don't know has labelled me as homphobic/racist/whatever, I am not going to bend over backwards to change their mind, because more often than not, it is barely worth the time and the effort. I try and treat people how I would like to be treated myself.
heh...I think this might be ironic...or something...Trippy Turtle said:
yeah I think if somone said that to me I would....not say very nice things to them in return, its like wanting to be anti-gay and also wanting a free pass for itStarsintheBlood said:
That's pretty much my view on the matter as well. There are certain times and/or debates where choosing to criticize the actions of a minority will inevitably lead to people assuming that you're bigoted against said group.Artina89 said:
A good example of this is the way Dan Savage attacked Rick Santorum by manipulating Google's search results in such a way that the word "Santorum" leads to a particular combination of fluids (Google it yourself if you want the proper definition) is also one of the search results. I argued that this was cyber bullying on Savage's part, and lo and behold, plenty of people accused me of being homophobic.
By not caring. I treat everyone the same, only different if they act like an asshole, which I will tell them so. "Oh, you don't like me because I'm black/gay/a woman?" "No, because you're acting like a fucking nob!"
To be racist/homophobic/sexist means you have to dislike that person because of said traits. I find it easier to simply not give a damn. I was watching The Descent and it took someone to point it out that there were no male characters the entire film (aside from a dude in the movie for a total of two minutes at the beginning). In District 9, aside from Wikus' wife, there are no female characters in the film. In the Lord of the Rings trilogy, there are no black people. In The Dark Knight, there were no gay characters (Aside from that tosser who kept saying gay lines while the Joker was being awesome and blowing stuff up).
To be racist/homophobic/sexist means you have to dislike that person because of said traits. I find it easier to simply not give a damn. I was watching The Descent and it took someone to point it out that there were no male characters the entire film (aside from a dude in the movie for a total of two minutes at the beginning). In District 9, aside from Wikus' wife, there are no female characters in the film. In the Lord of the Rings trilogy, there are no black people. In The Dark Knight, there were no gay characters (Aside from that tosser who kept saying gay lines while the Joker was being awesome and blowing stuff up).
You can't really argue you are not. Lets be honest here, how many times is calling someone a racist or a homophobe ever the result of a well reasoned and adequately supported argument? Probably pretty rarely. Instead such claims tend to be flung a little further then they actually apply in order to shame or shut up opposition.
Now granted, you can try to explain why they are wrong, but generally once you are put on the defensive in that line of discussion, that is all the discussion is about from that point forward. When whatever topic that sparked the claim devolves into outright calls like that, you can be certain it is not going to be a civil exchange of ideas and instead nothing but emotional screaming matches. You time would be spent equally as "well" as trying to explain to a 5 year old why you aren't a doodoohead. Wait, scratch that, children are honest enough to learn they made a mistake and change opinions...
Now granted, you can try to explain why they are wrong, but generally once you are put on the defensive in that line of discussion, that is all the discussion is about from that point forward. When whatever topic that sparked the claim devolves into outright calls like that, you can be certain it is not going to be a civil exchange of ideas and instead nothing but emotional screaming matches. You time would be spent equally as "well" as trying to explain to a 5 year old why you aren't a doodoohead. Wait, scratch that, children are honest enough to learn they made a mistake and change opinions...
I don't. If you're truly free of bigotry, you don't need to waste your time with attention seeking brats masquerading as social justice warriors. The world is flooded with people, when you run into one of these ingenuine assholes you take that opportunity to weed another loser with a fake personality out of your life.
Oh, man I did the same thing once. Made a really racist joke to an Asian friend and got a strip torn off for it. I'm kinda embarrassed just to think about it.
My advice? Really consider how you looked from that person's pov, if possible apologise 'Oh wow, that came out wrong' or 'I'm sorry, that wasn't want I wanted it to sound like' and work not to do it again.
We all mess up. We're in a society which still has sexism, racism, homophobia etc deeply engrained in it. We're going to screw up. Just remember that there's eight billion people on this planet, and pretending none of them matter isn't a recipe for getting along.
My advice? Really consider how you looked from that person's pov, if possible apologise 'Oh wow, that came out wrong' or 'I'm sorry, that wasn't want I wanted it to sound like' and work not to do it again.
We all mess up. We're in a society which still has sexism, racism, homophobia etc deeply engrained in it. We're going to screw up. Just remember that there's eight billion people on this planet, and pretending none of them matter isn't a recipe for getting along.
To those I know have already made up their mind, I don't bother. It doesn't do any good and often can make you look worse, regardless, it makes you look weak.
To those who I respect and are sensible, I tell them to pay attention to my actions. I my not like it and disagree with it on an intellectual level, but I'm right there for any friend who is in trouble like one who was suicidal that opened up to me first about being bi years ago. It took her a long while to stop hating herself for that swinging between both extremes, but it helped knowing I was consistently by her telling her she wasn't all these terrible things she kept calling herself.
As for the other side, the problem is them. I realized that long ago when I came to terms with typical your typical adolescent boys feelings on the issue and realized that I had no part in it so I should stop being disgusted, it's not my business.
To those who I respect and are sensible, I tell them to pay attention to my actions. I my not like it and disagree with it on an intellectual level, but I'm right there for any friend who is in trouble like one who was suicidal that opened up to me first about being bi years ago. It took her a long while to stop hating herself for that swinging between both extremes, but it helped knowing I was consistently by her telling her she wasn't all these terrible things she kept calling herself.
As for the other side, the problem is them. I realized that long ago when I came to terms with typical your typical adolescent boys feelings on the issue and realized that I had no part in it so I should stop being disgusted, it's not my business.
I dunno, call them retarded and go for the trifecta?
It's kinda hard to counter-argue it, calling out hypocrisy is probably your best bet.
I guess if you think you aren't and someone says you are, get them to state their case and objectively hammer out why they'd think that and, importantly, if you might be. You may have a sub-conscious bias, although the type of person who throws the terms around is MORE likely to have one and some form of superiority complex but leave that where it is.
It's kinda hard to counter-argue it, calling out hypocrisy is probably your best bet.
I guess if you think you aren't and someone says you are, get them to state their case and objectively hammer out why they'd think that and, importantly, if you might be. You may have a sub-conscious bias, although the type of person who throws the terms around is MORE likely to have one and some form of superiority complex but leave that where it is.
You can't argue you're not homophobic or sexist.
You bring up "proof" in the form of gay or black friends? You're trying too hard.
Silence? See, he doesn't deny it!
The best you can do, I think, is to point out that "innocent until proven guilty" ought to apply.
You bring up "proof" in the form of gay or black friends? You're trying too hard.
Silence? See, he doesn't deny it!
The best you can do, I think, is to point out that "innocent until proven guilty" ought to apply.
I would be appalled at them for saying something like that to their child/a gay person. But hey, its a valid opinion. I don't want my kid to be a smoker. I don't go out and insult smokers or even have something against them. I just don't want my child to smoke because, (ignoring the health issues) I personally don't think it looks good/is good for you. Same thing could go for being gay, but its just taboo to criticize them at all these days.Vault101 said:
I'd be surprised to find someone that wants their kid to be gay. I'm sure many wouldn't care, but knowing they won't ever have children outside of adoption and will face the possible discrimination would certainly factor in to many peoples thoughts.
I'd like to be clear and say that I'm all for liking whatever gender you damn well want, but I also think having an opinion isn't a crime or a bad thing. If you treat everyone fairly regardless of what you think, you can have whatever opinion you want.
By that logic, you wouldn't mind me and a consenting dog to have sex? How about a few dead bodies, they won't mind?Gundam GP01 said:
Just because something seems fine to you, doesn't mean others don't see it as wrong.
I'm still with you about it not affecting them so it should be fine, but people can have opinions.
no actually it couldn't because smoking is a habit one willfully picks up...Trippy Turtle said:
[quote/]
I'd be surprised to find someone that wants their kid to be gay. I'm sure many wouldn't care, but knowing they won't ever have children outside of adoption and will face the possible discrimination would certainly factor in to many peoples thoughts.[/quote]
1.not everyone wants children
2.discrimination is a thing, but its not something gay people can help...the discriminators however can
no parent "wants" their kid to be gay in that no parents probably "wants" their kid to practice BDSM because what parents care about their childs sex life?, but they SHOULD want their child to be happy, there are challenges yes but they don't constantly need to be told how miserable their existence apparently is (cause it aint)
[quote/]I'd like to be clear and say that I'm all for liking whatever gender you damn well want, but I also think having an opinion isn't a crime or a bad thing. If you treat everyone fairly regardless of what you think, you can have whatever opinion you want.[/quote]
yeah people can think what they want
I'm just saying the "love the person not the sin" thing doesn't get any "oh thankyou for being nice" cookies from the LGBT community...its disingenuous and quite frankly they don't want their half baked "love"
[quote/]
By that logic, you wouldn't mind me and a consenting dog to have sex? How about a few dead bodies, they won't mind?
Just because something seems fine to you, doesn't mean others don't see it as wrong.
I'm still with you about it not affecting them so it should be fine, but people can have opinions.[/quote]
a dog is a grey area since it can't really "consent" a dead body doesn't technically hurt anyone...its just disrespectful, that and how you ever manged to do that in the first place is cause for conern...unless it was stated in the persons will then...sure (not that that would ever be allowed IRL but you get my point)
people do all kinds of messed up (but consensual and non harmful) things to each other in the name of getting off, why we draw lines along gender really is the definition of arbitrary