How do you reason with religious people?
- Thread starter YukoValis
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I see people quote that type of thing and others like it, especially my friends who took philosophy, and they all say that it disproves God. It doesn't, though, it simply questions what we think we know about a greater being. Maybe it doesn't even do that though. Maybe it questions what we think we know about love and evil; through the evil maybe God intends to bring us closer meaning he is loving, maybe he tries to create a better future through the evil acts like he did with Noah's Arc.El Poncho said:
I am agnostic by the way. I find I can see things much more clearly if I choose to believe and not believe at the same time.
To quote House: You can't. If you could reason with religious people, there wouldn't be any religious people.
Most religious people I know realize that religion has no place in certain types of conversations and particular areas. If religion comes up, I make it clear that I respect their beliefs, even if I disagree with them. If they also respect my beliefs, we can converse like civil people. If they can't, I try to systematically rip their religion 12 new assholes. But just about every is civilized, so I don't do that often.
Epicurus dead since 270 BCEspartandude said:El Poncho said:Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.
However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D
-Athiests, winning since 33 A.D
i also love how his name is EPICurus
I think about how historically judgmental religious people are and how tirelessly many of them work to chastise, demonize and condemn everyone who doesn't call Christ their personal savior, and I wonder why so many people are defending them as if we, the agnostics and atheists, are the intolerant ones.
Why would you want to?
If that part of their life and world view is harmless, then - like the innocent fantasy world of a child - there's no reason to tear it down.
If on the other hand it is discriminatory and harmful - such as condemning homosexuality and whatnot - then they should be fought, condemned, and mocked at every turn, and not be given the slightest bit of respect or even held worthy of being engaged in any debate with.
So, depending on their stances, leave them be or leave them out to dry.
If that part of their life and world view is harmless, then - like the innocent fantasy world of a child - there's no reason to tear it down.
If on the other hand it is discriminatory and harmful - such as condemning homosexuality and whatnot - then they should be fought, condemned, and mocked at every turn, and not be given the slightest bit of respect or even held worthy of being engaged in any debate with.
So, depending on their stances, leave them be or leave them out to dry.
WBC don't represent a religion, its a cult. Every religious organisation around the world as stated that they have and want nothing to do with them and there views. Even the deeply homophobic don't want anything to do with them, even the KKK want nothing to do with them...
"The Ku Klux Klan, LLC. has not or EVER will have ANY connection with The "Westboro Baptist Church". We absolutely repudiate their tactics."
Press release from the Ku Klux Klan's website, September 2003
I mean, when even the KKK thinks your scum. Then you've got to know your the lowest of the low on the planet. Even Nazis would be disgusted in them, as, despite all the horrid things they did in the war, they did respect the graves of soldiers, even the enemies.
As far as reasoning with religious people, I just lay my views down and hope they lay theirs. Most religious people I've came across have been just as reasonable as I was with their views. That being said, despite being really close to an atheist, I can't seem to shake some belief in a God I'd say I'm probably closer to an agnostic Christian than an atheist but some may argue against that. So I can be pretty open minded when it comes to debating with those who are religious, no matter the religion.
Probably comes from being raised as a Christian, probably still a Christian, just a really bad one
. Even when I was religious, I was never homophobic nor are many religious people that I know.
"The Ku Klux Klan, LLC. has not or EVER will have ANY connection with The "Westboro Baptist Church". We absolutely repudiate their tactics."
Press release from the Ku Klux Klan's website, September 2003
I mean, when even the KKK thinks your scum. Then you've got to know your the lowest of the low on the planet. Even Nazis would be disgusted in them, as, despite all the horrid things they did in the war, they did respect the graves of soldiers, even the enemies.
As far as reasoning with religious people, I just lay my views down and hope they lay theirs. Most religious people I've came across have been just as reasonable as I was with their views. That being said, despite being really close to an atheist, I can't seem to shake some belief in a God I'd say I'm probably closer to an agnostic Christian than an atheist but some may argue against that. So I can be pretty open minded when it comes to debating with those who are religious, no matter the religion.
Probably comes from being raised as a Christian, probably still a Christian, just a really bad one
. Even when I was religious, I was never homophobic nor are many religious people that I know.
You cannot.
Some people are so stubborn that whatever they believe in is truth. Forget about trying to reason with him. You've tried and that's all you can do.
Some people are so stubborn that whatever they believe in is truth. Forget about trying to reason with him. You've tried and that's all you can do.
In my experiences most Christians are quite reasonable. Most will admit that there is no conclusive proof whether God does or doesn't exist in one form or another, and it comes down to a matter of faith. However if someone has chosen to believe something were all evidence goes against them (like Noah's ark) there is little you can do to reason with them and you should avoid the topic of religion entirely.
Address the inconsistencies between there behavior and what they say to believe.
Address inconsistencies and contradictions in the claims they believe.
Remember that not knowing a answer to something doesn't mean you should accept the claims of another if they don't have proof to support it.
When making claims about scients, morals etc. stick to logic and facts. they might not get through and the other guy might repeat him self. If he does address it and remind him you'v already debunkt that point so he should know its not true and that clinging to it is just a sign of dishonesty.
Address inconsistencies and contradictions in the claims they believe.
Remember that not knowing a answer to something doesn't mean you should accept the claims of another if they don't have proof to support it.
When making claims about scients, morals etc. stick to logic and facts. they might not get through and the other guy might repeat him self. If he does address it and remind him you'v already debunkt that point so he should know its not true and that clinging to it is just a sign of dishonesty.
Generally speaking, you cannot reason with religious people.
Much more effective on people like that would be an appeal to authority or perhaps emotion.
As sad as it is, logic and reason are not actually very good argument tools. They're great for finding the truth out, but not for convincing people.
Much more effective on people like that would be an appeal to authority or perhaps emotion.
As sad as it is, logic and reason are not actually very good argument tools. They're great for finding the truth out, but not for convincing people.
Well the majority of religious people aren;t fanatics so there is no need to reason with them. They are entitled to believe what thye want and as long as they don't try to change my own beliefs I have no problem with them (thats means YOU johavahs witnesses!).
I tell them that I'm not religious, but I respect their beliefs. I do act surprised whenever I meet someone religious (like when I found out two of my uni friends go to church - I've not had friends who did that).
However, when it comes to Jehovas Witnesses, it's a whole different ball game/
However, when it comes to Jehovas Witnesses, it's a whole different ball game/