How do you reason with religious people?

[Shadie777]

Imagine a man in the street who yelled he could see an invisible magic pink unicorn, and it told him how to live his life. He implores you to also see the unicorn, some people in teh street go and join him staring at this magical pink unicorn that is invisible. I have about as much respect for religious people as i do this crazy old man. There is no observable difference between the two. I dont really see why i should have to respect religion but not teh crazy old unicorn man? They are both equally moronic. I kinda just put up with religious people. About half our population can see invisible pink unicorns. Good for them.

I would respect the crazy old guy if he tried to teach people how to be be good towards each other. Thats the whole point of any religion. Not sure how it is moronic, it is completey natural for a human being to think their is a higher power beyond themselves.

 

[binvjoh]

I don't.

If I disagree with someone on such a fundamental level I can hardly see myself reasoning with them.

They're not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change theirs.

 

[Wapox]

I try to tell them, that I do not believe, but I know. IE: I trust evidence, and if they can come with hard evidence that what they believe is true, then I can change my views, however, religious people hardly want to find evidence, since that would make them knowers and not believers... so yea... I can't reason with them, only tell them what I think.

 

[TheDarkestDerp]

Well, spirituality is mostly a matter of belief, not so much one based on fact as faith in something intangible, so arguing with someone of a differing belief system is a tricky matter, requiring benevolence and patience, respect on both sides of the fence.

If you've approached a person of very strong, or insecure, beliefs in a calm friendly manner and offered open discussion and they respond in such an aggressive manner, I'm afraid the best you can do is back away with hands up and simply diffuse the situation. It sounds like your friend has some issues he/she either isn't comfortable with discussing or is very insecure about and this line of conversation isn't going to be going anywhere for either of you until he/she figured out where they really stand on matters and how best to express things from their own P.O.V.

 

[Thespian]

Usually it goes like this:

Me: *logical argument*
Religious person: *logical retort*
Me: *logical retort*
Religious Person: *logical retort*
Me: *Logical Retort*
Religious Person: Yes well, I have faith I don't need proof!
Me: ... >_>

And then I realize it's a losing battle.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

Funny story. I had the demotivational picture of this quote as my desktop background in school, causing a group of people to come over and complain about how I had to respect other people's beliefs.

You'd think I e-mailed the damn thing to everyone else and demanded they put it up. It was a cool quote and I liked it, so I put it up in my personal space, people come over to me telling me to take it down and I am the one who needs to respect the beliefs of others? =/

 

[crudus]

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

The simple missionaries I just say "You have to listen to my religion if I listen to yours"

Spoiler: At which point I show them the cover.

Doing that solves 99% of my problems. However, there is the rare persistent one that seems, to quote Yahtzee, "scientifically designed to get on my tits" by telling me I should repent, I am going to burn in hell, etc. Now threatening me with eternal damnation is where I draw the line. At which point I use Socratic irony. After they start to trip up and see what I am doing I go about my day.

 

[orangebandguy]

Well you can't really.

Religion is always that one magic exception that can never be questioned. I just avoid all discussion around it.

 

[Vhite]

Everyone knows that Escapist is strongly anti-relligious.

Im Christian but I keep my beliefs for myself so basicly no one IRL knows about it until they ask.

I respect most of religions and beliefs and especially those people who can question their beliefs. WBC is an extreme case and their interests have hardly anything to do with religion, they only use it as a weapon.

 

[V TheSystem V]

There was this religious preacher in my town centre before. Me and my friends were walking past him, and he shouted 'JESUS IS YOUR SAVIOUR!' to which I replied 'NO, BEELZEBUB IS!'. My friends laughed and told me to not say anything else as the guy looked capable of stabbing me.

So I deal with them by telling them I am a Satanist.

 

[Eldan]

The only religious people I know are "I think there's a church in this town *somewhere*, but I've never been there" catholics and "I respect your opinion, god is a nice dude, now let's clap our hands and sing a song" protestants.

So, I doubt those count.

 

[Terminate421]

Ask them if their religion will prevent them from saving someone from bleeding to death.

If they say "Yes" tell them that religion is nice but letting get in the way of certain positives is a bad idea. I know he worships X but why should his religion say no to Y medicine.

Im catholic but I firmly believe God is a very loose person. If he was strict, then more people would be going to hell than to heaven.

It is fun to mess with religious people though, Jehovahs witnesses in general. If they knock on my door, I open it, count down to 10 seconds while they talk, once it hits 10 seconds, point out behind them and shout at the top of my lungs, "Release the Kraken!" and shut the door on them.

 

[Mcupobob]

Well, your friend's just an idiot, that doesn't have anything to do with him being religious.

This is the best answer and truest. Anyways good luck.

 

[Popido]

Kidnap their kids. Sell them to porn industry's black market. Direct the videos to the parents every month.

Extremely religious folks are usually:
1. afraid of death = afterlife.
2. afraid of life = peace in death.

Break their safe haven. Make sure that there is no escape in death and no hope in life while [del]torturing[/del] having a intelligent conversation with them. Otherwise you'll just have to sit there and listen, till you end it with compromisation how everything is just an opinion.

 

[Delta2501]

Saw quite a nice article on reconciliation, see here:
http://www.cracked.com/article_15759_10-things-christians-atheists-can-and-must-agree-on.html

 

[Assassin Xaero]

There is a "politics and religion" forum for this type of thing...

But anyway, I ignore them. I've gone to church and I've gone to an atheist group. What I've learned is that there are psycho douche bags in both who only one to destroy the beliefs of others in favor of their own because they lack the ability to have respect for anyone who sees things different.

 

[Shadie777]

Usually it goes like this:

Me: *logical argument*
Religious person: *logical retort*
Me: *logical retort*
Religious Person: *logical retort*
Me: *Logical Retort*
Religious Person: Yes well, I have faith I don't need proof!
Me: ... >_>

And then I realize it's a losing battle.

As a religious person that's basically the same with all my discussions except I end up thinking about the logical retort for a couple of hours until I find something that I can use for the discussion, unfortunately by that time my friend won't be bothered to discuss >_>.
If i can't find another logical retort then i accept it.
I actually believe it's a good thing to have a discussion about religion but only if it's done right. I have my doubts that their is actually a God but im fine with that. If i didn't have these doubts I wouldn't be taken seriously in my discussions.

 

[drisky]

Damn it, its been so long since we had a religious thread in the wrong place, now I have to listen to all these "I never associate with religious people" and "Its impossible to reason with them", *sigh*. Honestly though I can't think of a single time in which I had to reason with them, no one I ever met thought homosexuality was wrong, or evolution, and I haven't heard an argument against any thing like birth control in a long time.

In your case though your just trying to prove a clearly evil group evil, so simple go thorough a list of things that Westbro has protested. Do you hate; solders, americans, gays, musicians, comic book nerds etc. If he admits not hating even one of those things tell him he's going to hell for being a symphasizer. Westbro disregards many off the basic Christian believes such as forgiveness and loving they neighbor, he should realize that they only share a book. If not he is clearly stupid, not much you can do about that.

 

[imnot]

Whenever the god fearing hate mongers come through at work and talk about god, i simply use evolution and the teapot argument to subjugate them. Since provocative writing is the devil and all, using encyclopedic like literary devices works wonders.

May I ask what the teapot argument is?

 

[liamwazhere]

Well very simply, no WBC are not christians. I am not religous, but saying that the WBC are christians is like saying Nazi's are christians, or that the Taliban is muslim. They stray so far away from the religion that they should not be considered parts if it.

And for "How do I deal with religous people", although I do not like religion in most forums.
And although I dislike bigets, racists, who are downright morons which hide behind their religion and use it to justify there unreasonable "opinions". I accept that religous people are normal. So as normal people, most of them do consider my argument against them, as I accept their argument against mine. There is no problem with them having a religion then. But I will speak out against extremists, I will speak out against the people who use religion as a tool for hate. Thats how I deal with religous people.

 

[norwegian-guy]

I ask religious people tthe following questions before I try to reason with them: "Are you able to imagine a world without God?", If the person says no, then I conclude that we cannot have a reasonable conversation conserning anything with an idea about a God as context. If they say yes I ask them if they place their idea of God (By that I mean the way they consider Gods nature as this is something that it is not possible to obtain actual knowledge of as the very existence of a god is something we cannot obtain knowledge of anyways, I ask if their idea of God)is superiour to logic. If they say no, then they value logic and it is possible to have a reasonable conversation with them unnafected by their religious standing. If they say yes I ask them if God can create a married bachelor, or a triangle without angles, or a mass that does not take up the slightest bit of space. If they say yes I conclude that I cannot have a reasonable conversation with them. If they see the problem I conclude that I can have a reasonable conversation with them.