I wonder when he'll switch targets to another anime series, and how harsh the ensuing shitstorm will be.WouldYouKindly said:
How to Talk About Games #3
- Thread starter The Wooster
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While of course saying one audience is better than another is not the right way to go, I think saying one audience is irrelevant accomplishes the same goal and is actually a valid point.
Some audiences' views on things they have no interest or relevance to SHOULD carry less weight. Yes the baby doesn't matter when it comes to tasting beer but weather or not a baby likes a type of beer has absolutely no baring on the beer being good or bad at the same time. The baby's not "lesser" just "irrelevant".
You may say that defining audiences as irrelevant is a way of alienating people or shutting the doors of the clubhouse but if you're actually correct, you're merely agreeing with THEIR choice to be irrelevant in the first place. If someone comes up and decides to participate then deeming them irrelevant is of course counter-productive but someone who clearly has no interest in ever having an interest in games isn't someone best suited to opining about them.
"I never had a pizza but I think this pizza is good" is a useless comment. It should carry no weight and if you use it to design pizzas you'd be equally as likely in succeeding as someone who rolled dice to decide what to put on one.
Some audiences' views on things they have no interest or relevance to SHOULD carry less weight. Yes the baby doesn't matter when it comes to tasting beer but weather or not a baby likes a type of beer has absolutely no baring on the beer being good or bad at the same time. The baby's not "lesser" just "irrelevant".
You may say that defining audiences as irrelevant is a way of alienating people or shutting the doors of the clubhouse but if you're actually correct, you're merely agreeing with THEIR choice to be irrelevant in the first place. If someone comes up and decides to participate then deeming them irrelevant is of course counter-productive but someone who clearly has no interest in ever having an interest in games isn't someone best suited to opining about them.
"I never had a pizza but I think this pizza is good" is a useless comment. It should carry no weight and if you use it to design pizzas you'd be equally as likely in succeeding as someone who rolled dice to decide what to put on one.
One point of criticism on the comic itself: choosing a guy dressed as a Nazi soldier to run the "Holocaust Memorial Roller-Coaster" wouldn't be the choice I'd go with. Instead, I have the ride attendant look like an emaciated deathcamp survivor.
In my original panel description it was like a haunted house ride, with skeletons popping out of ovens. We decided against that one.Mahoshonen said:
Depends what you mean by opinion. I don't like the subjective/objective divide but I suppose we have to use it here.Father Time said:
Objective opinion: Jews are causing the downfall of the German nation.
Can that be wrong? Yes, of course.
Subjective opinion: I don't like Jews.
How can that be wrong?
I've gotta disagree on the connotations of the word "fun." It implies something is enjoyable, period. It doesn't imply depth or intelligence, but it certainly doesn't imply a lack of them either. It simply denotes enjoyment. Other than that nitpick, great series, guys. Well thought-out, well-presented.
Also:
Erin snorting coke off of a cat's stomach is now going to be my avatar for all of the forums. All of them.
Also:
Erin snorting coke off of a cat's stomach is now going to be my avatar for all of the forums. All of them.
I'll let a brilliant game explain it for me...xaszatm said:
http://lparchive.org/I-Have-No-Mouth-and-I-Must-Scream/Update%2040/img-26.png
No other game has had the balls to treat the Holocaust so frankly as "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream".
Didn't stop me from laughing at the words "skeletons popping out of ovens", though. D:
...More or less, I just get uneasy with the idea that all "opinions" are equally grounded. Democracy isn't perfect, but if 95% of people believe, say, that the new control set-up presented in a later game in a series is a marked improvement in ease-of-use over the controls of a previous offering in the series, there's a much better chance that you'll find the controls to be an improvement as well. The more specific and relatable a presented idea can get, the more likely it is to be of value to others, even if something like "The control system in #3 is better than that in #2" remains, in essence, an opinion.Yopaz said:
Here's my beef. Maybe it makes me a dinosaur, but for me, videogames are still primarily about being games, which are primarily about having fun.
Three cheers for wishing to re-brand the medium as interactive narrative, and I'll take thought-provoking introspective cerebral horror (Silent Hill 2) and punch-to-the-gut topical satire-commentary (Spec-Ops: The Line) over the latest attempt to re-animate Sonic the Hedgehog's gruesome corpse EVERY day of the week, but at the end of the day, I actually do want a GAME to PLAY that is FUN and CHALLENGING.
We should absolutely embrace the unique narrative capabilities of videogames, namely the fact that no other narrative medium places you in the role of both the audience and protagonist. And now more than ever, those narratives are in desperate need of depth. But this is where games differ from any other narrative medium, because a game absolutely lives or dies in how much fun it is to play.
If you want art, then don't judge it by how fun it is. The last thing art is concerned with is how fun it is. Games are supposed to be fun. A game that is not fun is no longer a game, it's a chore.
Three cheers for wishing to re-brand the medium as interactive narrative, and I'll take thought-provoking introspective cerebral horror (Silent Hill 2) and punch-to-the-gut topical satire-commentary (Spec-Ops: The Line) over the latest attempt to re-animate Sonic the Hedgehog's gruesome corpse EVERY day of the week, but at the end of the day, I actually do want a GAME to PLAY that is FUN and CHALLENGING.
We should absolutely embrace the unique narrative capabilities of videogames, namely the fact that no other narrative medium places you in the role of both the audience and protagonist. And now more than ever, those narratives are in desperate need of depth. But this is where games differ from any other narrative medium, because a game absolutely lives or dies in how much fun it is to play.
If you want art, then don't judge it by how fun it is. The last thing art is concerned with is how fun it is. Games are supposed to be fun. A game that is not fun is no longer a game, it's a chore.
That's pretty much how I gauge almost everything.StriderShinryu said:
I almost never tell people something is good or not, I always tell them if I liked it and make it very clear that it's my own personal viewpoint.
I just dive in, whether I enjoy it or not gets sorted out through the unconsciousness of my own personal taste. It simply strikes a chord in me, that's all it is, you don't have to agree with me we don't have to tell each other we're wrong, live and let die.
That being said, trying to defend a game by claiming your opinion is some holy objective viewpoint really makes me want to tear my hair out.
Bingo. Opinions are either justified by facts, which can be wrong, invalidating the opinion, or they can just be unjustified opinions, which are also invalid. Just because opinions aren't objective truths doesn't mean a specific opinion has any merit. If the only reason you have for me to listen to your opinion is that it has no objective merit, then why did you say it in the first place?burningdragoon said:
You know... I think the whole "Games are art" is the wrong way to look at it. Art, for the mainstream person, is mostly a passively experienced thing. You look at a sculpture, you watch a movie. You listen to music.
Games are more feats of engineering than anything else.
Games are more feats of engineering than anything else.
correct. ( from my viewpoint, obviously.. which is the viewpoint of viewing viewpoints, in this instance. )Mike Fang said:
opinion = viewpoint
viewpoint = perspective
perspective = you see part(s) of something
ok enough with the words! so if you're ignoring some of the picture, literally anything could be true. let's take a stupid example, porno mag with half naked picture on the cover ignore the naked part by folding the picture, ( generate a physical viewpoint ) now it's simply tasteful photography.
opinions and viewpoints, powerful stuff!