I was just reading Hobbes and Rousseau. I don't think humans are inherently good or bad. I think they are neutral (unless born a sociopath). As humans we can be both evil or good, but are inherently neither.
Humans: Are we evil?
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No, we are not inherently evil. We aren't inherently good either. We are inherently human. By our nature we are selfish, but that's not evil, that's survival instinct. I don't think objective morality doesn't exist, so I don't really see any other way I could answer this.
We're complex. At the root of it all, most of us want survival. It's in our genes. Animals that don't want to survive.... don't. And then they don't reproduce if they don't survive. Humans want to survive, obviously.
Now, because we are a clever species with unusual abilities, we can form things like societies and communities. This is beneficial: A lone human wandering on the Savanah ain't gonna live very long if he or she has to fight and find food for themselves. Those clever humans who entered societies and co-operated with others tended to live longer and have more children. So, natural selection selected for humans who were co-operative and sane enough to form communities.
However, this is where it gets complicated. At the root of the issue is, again, survival. Instead of individual concerns over survivability, humans started to care about the survivability of the group (so long as the group was perceived to take care of them). But humans then started fighting with other groups to ensure that their group survived. Over time, these "groups" have grown larger: From families, to clans, to tribes, to settlements, to villages, to towns then to cities, then nation-states and finally to empires or Supra-national blocs. Because humans form emotional attachments to their group and derive a sense of identity and place in them, they resist merging with other groups, even if it would make sense to do so. That's why humans still fight over petty differences and resources - we're still fighting for the survival of "our tribe" against "other tribes", because we think in the long term, our children and our families will have a better chance of survival in our group.
So what about anti-social miscreants? Serial killers? Bad people? Well, no one ever said humans were simple. Our neurological make-up IS determined in part by our genes. There is good evidence that genes can affect things like your temper, propensity to commit violent acts, sexual infidelity and your ability to empathize. However, genes don't exert TOTAL control - there is a fair amount of random chance in development. Genes can also mutate, or fail to function correctly - biology is messy, and humans follow developmental TRENDS, but we don't grow or form in EXACTLY the same way. This means that there WILL ALWAYS be psychopaths whose brains formed badly, or people who lack empathy. Also, we have emotional and animalistic traits that are hang-overs from our more primitive past. We have a rational intellect, but we also have a primitive emotional side to us. Our rational intelligence has allowed us to create a society and a civilization.... but since evolution works on the scale of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS to MILLIONS of years, we haven't evolved well enough to keep up with our radical social changes. In the past, Rape was evolutionarily selected for - the more women you got pregnant, the more chances your genes would be past down. In the primitive past, where there was no police, no judicial system and where there was no educational system, rape was fairly easy to carry out and get away with. Thus, it was selected for.
But natural DOES NOT MEAN GOOD. Rape is a horrible crime. It always was, it always will be. Our rational side realizes this: we want to live in a society in which rape does not occur, because we want to live in a society in which harm and distress are to be kept to an absolute minimum. We also have other ways of reproducing and having families other than rape. Our intellect has allowed us to construct a society in which not only is Rape disadvantageous to your ability to have a family (you could end up in jail, and the victim would get an abortion), but acknowledged as a evil act since we have been educated and brought up in a society in which we should consider our fellow citizens and human beings as members of our "group". Unfortunately, the animal still exists within us, and until we introduce genetic alterations, it always will.
Violence and anger and "Us Vs Them" attitudes are all hangers on from our animalistic, primitive, brutal past. We still feel illogical, insane emotions because our brains are FLAWED. Deeply, deeply flawed.
But there is hope: we're also an intelligent species. A malleable species. Part of living in a society is the ability to blend into that society. We have neurological and mental tools that allow us to be educated and alter our behaviour. We couldn't create new societies if we didn't have such mental tools. Progress IS possible. Although rape was common place in our past (and sadly, in some parts of the world, it still is), most developed countries now outlaw it. Our society is finally seeing the negative, horrific aspects of rape, and we have tried to ban it. Women used to be horrifically oppressed throughout human history because in the past it was genetically advantageous to keep your wife at home birthing kids all the damn time. But now, with our industrial society, we need to recognize that women being in the work force and being able to think and speak for themselves is infinitely more humane and advantageous, since it makes our workforce at least 50% more productive and inventive. Violence used to be a great way of getting food for "your group", and although we still fight, we have learned that random, anarchaic violence against your own citizens is a bad thing for the stability of society.
We're learning. We're growing. But although we develop intellectually and culturally every single day, our biology takes CONSIDERABLY longer to develop. We'll be stuck with animalistic traits for the conceivable future.
The greatest weapon against evil is education and cultural development. Of course, you'll always get your psychopaths who have damaged brains and empathy centres - and you'll have to remove those people from society by placing them in prison (castrating them too would be a good idea, but only for the really crazy ones: Serial killers and torturers. They shouldn't be allowed to have kids).
This is why I am in favour of mass genetic alteration to the human genome. It's partially the reason I went into genetics. Nature can't move fast enough for us to get rid of our animalistic, moronic, primitive emotions. Our intellect is continuously chained to this awful beast of stupidity and backwardsness. If nature will not quickly get rid of our inner demons... why not science? Let our intellect kill off the barbarian in us, otherwise we'll be stuck with it for who knows how long?
TL
R? We're living in a 21st society with brains that evolved to live in the Savannah. We're Cro-Magnons in suits. We're smart enough to construct societies and laws, and still base enough to want "what's best for us, personally". We're conflicted. We're both good and bad, intelligent and stupid, incredibly developed in some ways and INCREDIBLY primitive in some other ways. We don't always do what is rational. We're not always consistent.
We're 2 parts intellect and 1 part brute.
Now, because we are a clever species with unusual abilities, we can form things like societies and communities. This is beneficial: A lone human wandering on the Savanah ain't gonna live very long if he or she has to fight and find food for themselves. Those clever humans who entered societies and co-operated with others tended to live longer and have more children. So, natural selection selected for humans who were co-operative and sane enough to form communities.
However, this is where it gets complicated. At the root of the issue is, again, survival. Instead of individual concerns over survivability, humans started to care about the survivability of the group (so long as the group was perceived to take care of them). But humans then started fighting with other groups to ensure that their group survived. Over time, these "groups" have grown larger: From families, to clans, to tribes, to settlements, to villages, to towns then to cities, then nation-states and finally to empires or Supra-national blocs. Because humans form emotional attachments to their group and derive a sense of identity and place in them, they resist merging with other groups, even if it would make sense to do so. That's why humans still fight over petty differences and resources - we're still fighting for the survival of "our tribe" against "other tribes", because we think in the long term, our children and our families will have a better chance of survival in our group.
So what about anti-social miscreants? Serial killers? Bad people? Well, no one ever said humans were simple. Our neurological make-up IS determined in part by our genes. There is good evidence that genes can affect things like your temper, propensity to commit violent acts, sexual infidelity and your ability to empathize. However, genes don't exert TOTAL control - there is a fair amount of random chance in development. Genes can also mutate, or fail to function correctly - biology is messy, and humans follow developmental TRENDS, but we don't grow or form in EXACTLY the same way. This means that there WILL ALWAYS be psychopaths whose brains formed badly, or people who lack empathy. Also, we have emotional and animalistic traits that are hang-overs from our more primitive past. We have a rational intellect, but we also have a primitive emotional side to us. Our rational intelligence has allowed us to create a society and a civilization.... but since evolution works on the scale of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS to MILLIONS of years, we haven't evolved well enough to keep up with our radical social changes. In the past, Rape was evolutionarily selected for - the more women you got pregnant, the more chances your genes would be past down. In the primitive past, where there was no police, no judicial system and where there was no educational system, rape was fairly easy to carry out and get away with. Thus, it was selected for.
But natural DOES NOT MEAN GOOD. Rape is a horrible crime. It always was, it always will be. Our rational side realizes this: we want to live in a society in which rape does not occur, because we want to live in a society in which harm and distress are to be kept to an absolute minimum. We also have other ways of reproducing and having families other than rape. Our intellect has allowed us to construct a society in which not only is Rape disadvantageous to your ability to have a family (you could end up in jail, and the victim would get an abortion), but acknowledged as a evil act since we have been educated and brought up in a society in which we should consider our fellow citizens and human beings as members of our "group". Unfortunately, the animal still exists within us, and until we introduce genetic alterations, it always will.
Violence and anger and "Us Vs Them" attitudes are all hangers on from our animalistic, primitive, brutal past. We still feel illogical, insane emotions because our brains are FLAWED. Deeply, deeply flawed.
But there is hope: we're also an intelligent species. A malleable species. Part of living in a society is the ability to blend into that society. We have neurological and mental tools that allow us to be educated and alter our behaviour. We couldn't create new societies if we didn't have such mental tools. Progress IS possible. Although rape was common place in our past (and sadly, in some parts of the world, it still is), most developed countries now outlaw it. Our society is finally seeing the negative, horrific aspects of rape, and we have tried to ban it. Women used to be horrifically oppressed throughout human history because in the past it was genetically advantageous to keep your wife at home birthing kids all the damn time. But now, with our industrial society, we need to recognize that women being in the work force and being able to think and speak for themselves is infinitely more humane and advantageous, since it makes our workforce at least 50% more productive and inventive. Violence used to be a great way of getting food for "your group", and although we still fight, we have learned that random, anarchaic violence against your own citizens is a bad thing for the stability of society.
We're learning. We're growing. But although we develop intellectually and culturally every single day, our biology takes CONSIDERABLY longer to develop. We'll be stuck with animalistic traits for the conceivable future.
The greatest weapon against evil is education and cultural development. Of course, you'll always get your psychopaths who have damaged brains and empathy centres - and you'll have to remove those people from society by placing them in prison (castrating them too would be a good idea, but only for the really crazy ones: Serial killers and torturers. They shouldn't be allowed to have kids).
This is why I am in favour of mass genetic alteration to the human genome. It's partially the reason I went into genetics. Nature can't move fast enough for us to get rid of our animalistic, moronic, primitive emotions. Our intellect is continuously chained to this awful beast of stupidity and backwardsness. If nature will not quickly get rid of our inner demons... why not science? Let our intellect kill off the barbarian in us, otherwise we'll be stuck with it for who knows how long?
TL
R? We're living in a 21st society with brains that evolved to live in the Savannah. We're Cro-Magnons in suits. We're smart enough to construct societies and laws, and still base enough to want "what's best for us, personally". We're conflicted. We're both good and bad, intelligent and stupid, incredibly developed in some ways and INCREDIBLY primitive in some other ways. We don't always do what is rational. We're not always consistent. We're 2 parts intellect and 1 part brute.
"evil" depends on the eye of the beholder. what some see as evil, is a good deed for others. it is varying and can not be specified.
Evil is subject to opinion I guess. What some people see as evil others see as justified. What some see as good others see as a waste of time or misguided. No matter what someone does chances are there will be a positive and a negative so it's up to you to decide what your perception of good and evil is and whether or not you think you can apply this perception to a race as a whole in order to classify them.
I'm not having a go at you, I'm just saying that you can't really answer that question.
I'm not having a go at you, I'm just saying that you can't really answer that question.
My answer goes to Agent Smith from the Matrix:
I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM1-DQ2Wo_w
I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species and I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet. You're a plague and we are the cure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM1-DQ2Wo_w
I don't think so. We have a huge capacity for evil, but also a huge capacity for good. We do so much that is horrifying and despicable but also so much that is good and wonderful.
It depends on what you categorize as "Good" and what is "Evil". I'd say we're a mix, we have the potential for both but more often than not we do atrocious acts and act like idiots.
We're animals, we have the capacity to be good and to be evil. Sometimes the choice between the two is obvious, however most of the time one man's evil is another man's good.
We are alone, lost, without purpose, scared and misguided but we're not evil per se.redisforever said:
I like to think that our creator has forsaken us and that's why we can't have nice things.
Good and evil are simply points of view. But in the classic sense of the word, No, I don't think so.
Humans are born inbetween good and evil, and are lives and are choices strengthen the evil/good in us. But just remember, evil doesn't just stem from birth, the world around us is what taints us or makes us better... just some are more resistent to it. An abused child suffers and can fall into evil and hate because they were taught to believe this was proper. Back in the old dark ages, people were tortured and either grew disgusted by it or were taught from early age to take pleasure in harming others. Society and who raises you have powerful impacts on the way you turn out.
No, we are not inherently evil, we are inherently blessed with survival instinct though.
and where a bunch of parisites eating up the planet slowly and surely. not that I'm complaining i don't mind us being the mold on the sandwich that is earth.
survival instinct does seem to turn certain people a bunch of cowards though, I remember some great experiment where they took a group of people out to dinner. then faked a murder infront off them, and they all cried like babies, but not one got up to help. pathetic
and where a bunch of parisites eating up the planet slowly and surely. not that I'm complaining i don't mind us being the mold on the sandwich that is earth.
survival instinct does seem to turn certain people a bunch of cowards though, I remember some great experiment where they took a group of people out to dinner. then faked a murder infront off them, and they all cried like babies, but not one got up to help. pathetic
I like to think of it more like tough love. A father who's their, he cares but you never really notice it. You ignore it for all the pain you feel and you feel neglected, his love for you is ignored by all the bad times. He's watching, testing you. He wants you to earn life and toughen up through hardship, rather then hand everything to you and let you become spoiled and rotten. But, that's just my oppinion.JesterRaiin said:We are alone, lost, without purpose, scared and misguided but we're not evil per se.redisforever said:
I like to think that our creator has forsaken us and that's why we can't have nice things.
How disabled, crippled, retarded, stillborn, dead at very young age, "human vegetables" and similar cases fit into your point of view ? Just curious...Asuka Soryu said:I like to think of it more like tough love. A father who's their, he cares but you never really notice it. You ignore it for all the pain you feel and you feel neglected, his love for you is ignored by all the bad times. He's watching, testing you. He wants you to earn life and toughen up through hardship, rather then hand everything to you and let you become spoiled and rotten. But, that's just my oppinion.JesterRaiin said:We are alone, lost, without purpose, scared and misguided but we're not evil per se.redisforever said:
I like to think that our creator has forsaken us and that's why we can't have nice things.
This is a difficult question to answer, not just because good and evil can be viewed subjectively, but also because religious views can effect how someone answers.
And I do mean this is a difficult question for me to answer about my own views on the human race. I could go into a long rant describing what I believe, but it is late and I don't want to so here is the short version:
Humans are not inherently evil or good, and that doesn't matter because we should always strive to be better people regardless of were we stand morally.
And I do mean this is a difficult question for me to answer about my own views on the human race. I could go into a long rant describing what I believe, but it is late and I don't want to so here is the short version:
Humans are not inherently evil or good, and that doesn't matter because we should always strive to be better people regardless of were we stand morally.
Neither, we are selfish. Our behaviour could work out to benefit others or ourselves but we never act unless we gain something from it, even if it is something as small as making yourself feel better about yourself from doing things like charity.