It's a team game. You should totally let other people get all the kills because it's a team game. Wanting to get some kills is not team playing.
"I always let the Vanguard die."
- Thread starter Artemicion
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A variety of assorted points:
As a Vanguard, if you can charge, you usually HAVE to Charge - because it recharges your shields, it keeps you mobile and out of the line of fire, and if you don't you will probably die. And if the only target is that enemy sniper you're eyeing, it's a question of survival for us, and we may not have time to register that, because we're paying attention to whether there's enough tough enemies there that we should roll instead.
And yeah, sometimes it can seem like we're taking all the kills, but there's many an occasion where I actually have to carry a bad team, and once I go down, everyone else goes down FAST - so you may not realize it, but you may need us.
And I do go out of my way to revive people, and I do complete objectives more than the average player, when I have to stay in a hacking zone, I quit charging and use my pistol, and I'm always at the LZ by the 20 second mark. I'll usually come out with the 50 Biotic kills as well as the 20 Headshots. I've seen Infiltrators that don't do objectives and Vanguards that die every single round - there are a lot of players who are far, far worse than a Good Vanguard, so cut us some slack, eh?
As a Vanguard, if you can charge, you usually HAVE to Charge - because it recharges your shields, it keeps you mobile and out of the line of fire, and if you don't you will probably die. And if the only target is that enemy sniper you're eyeing, it's a question of survival for us, and we may not have time to register that, because we're paying attention to whether there's enough tough enemies there that we should roll instead.
And yeah, sometimes it can seem like we're taking all the kills, but there's many an occasion where I actually have to carry a bad team, and once I go down, everyone else goes down FAST - so you may not realize it, but you may need us.
And I do go out of my way to revive people, and I do complete objectives more than the average player, when I have to stay in a hacking zone, I quit charging and use my pistol, and I'm always at the LZ by the 20 second mark. I'll usually come out with the 50 Biotic kills as well as the 20 Headshots. I've seen Infiltrators that don't do objectives and Vanguards that die every single round - there are a lot of players who are far, far worse than a Good Vanguard, so cut us some slack, eh?
They are close quarters combatants. They usually die near other enemies. It's not worth the risk trying to revive them because you'll probably die as well.
If they know what they are doing, then it's fine. They can be the point and the group can follow them and do nice sweep and clears. But most of the ones I've seen just run around padding their score. They fudge up biotic explosions and tech bursts, they ignore objectives and I had one last too busy night running around killing stuff to get back in time for full extraction. So I let them die too, especially if you are all the way on the other side of the map.
Well seeing as I usually play a Vanguard, I don't let myself die if I can help itDead Raen said:
Though generally speaking I tend to avoid trying to kill steal unless either I or one of my allies is going to die if I don't. Mostly I use the Charge and Nova to clear out packs of enemies who'd normally be a hassle to fight, letting my allies focus on the enemies who are tough enough to survive. Otherwise, I use my trusty Mattock to fill my targets full of nice big holes.
I keep seeing comments like these come up and it's a bit bothersome.Zen Toombs said:
Yes, I and everyone else fully realize that the scoreboard does not reflect your final experience outcome. Nor does it have any affect on your character. It's a team game, and everyone must work together.
Thank you for repeating that. We understand.
The issue is that even if you don't care about your own score, other people, more competitive people, do. The scores exist, in part to see how much you're doing in relation to the rest of your team. If the vanguard (or, as many people have pointed out, infiltrator) is 20-30k above everyone else by end game, that means that they got the brunt of the game's kills.
If you're okay with that, great! More power to you. But I bet the rest of your team would have liked to get a few of those points, too.
Someone else mentioned that they go AFK when a human vanguard is in play, and that serves to show another point, that a vanguard doing everything is boring for the rest of the team.
Yes, they're getting us experience. My character will get at least 130k XP. Wonderful. But I would have much rather fought for it myself. I didn't join this game so I could sit back, or have a vanguard obscure my sights. I joined to shoot at things, and generally have them die in response.
And just because the game is cooperative, doesn't mean you can't steal kills. You most definitely can. I mentioned this in page one.
Lastly, to respond to the "it's a team game" portion of the quote. I already covered this on page one as well, but I'll be more than happy to reiterate: If the vanguard is doing everything, zipping around the map quicker than any class, killing everything before the rest of the group has a chance, it stops being a team game. Generally, you are not working as a team when you charge+nova your way across the map.
Anyways, I read a few times that any stolen kills are entirely unintentional, and I sympathize: I may be making it sound like the vanguards are the worst thing in the multiplayer (those are Banshees) but I really DO like the class, and I occasionally play it.
(PS, I was expecting the "if you don't like it go play single player" argument, and am delighted to see it has only come up once so far. It's a non-argument and doesn't hold water.)
QFTneonit said:
Also, survival bonuses are nice (ie. everyone survives all rounds)
Regarding this "killstealing" bullshit... Would you rather me hold back and potentially lose the wave because I was letting Joe Blow get some points? Or would you want (expect?) me to go balls out every wave for the whole match until we win nice toys?
Yeah, I thought so. Balls-to-the-wall it is. I'll keep KILL SECURING until we get our loots.
Cheers.
I think the bigger issue is that we feel this need to compete with our teammates. Hey, I do it, too... but I'm starting to kind of regret how much time I've spent in that frame of mind, because it has killed a lot of fun.Dead Raen said:
(As to vanguard charging into the fray and making merry, you might consider the definition of "vanguard" -- "those leading the way." They are intended to be the tip of the spear, to create a break in the enemy position for the rest of you to exploit.)
Personally I'd rather you didn't decide to be the only player on the team. You don't need to go "balls to the wall" to win a match, and if you do, there's a pretty good chance you'll end up looking like an overeager tosser.Greg Waller said:
I also can't believe you just played "kill securing" straight. I suppose it serves to prove my point, though.
Anyway: I've read almost every post in this thread and the general consensus seems to be "I pick everyone up when I can, but if the vanguard has gotten himself downed in a bad spot, I won't risk it." I'm actually glad to hear this. I mulled it over for a bit and decided that, no, I don't agree with letting the vanguard die just because he may be detracting my fun.
I've actually had very good experiences with vanguards. Had a random gold with 2 human vanguards, a quarian infil, and me as a human sentinel. I just kept a constant warp to detonate on the heavy units and watched the fireworks unfold (and still ended up with top score).
I have had an issue with people trying to kick me just for being a human sentinel, and god does that get annoying. Yes, it is just warp and throw for powers (tech armor is incredibly situational), but with a low weight that basically means a throw every second or a detonation every 4, and I've only seen a few people who can actually keep up with that.
EDIT: Also, I don't understand why people wouldn't pick someone up unless it is actually impossible. There have been a few times I was within sight distance of someone down, but 2 phantoms + support in the way means even if I tried, I'd just die, so I do my best to either CC the area or clear it in time for either me or someone else to get in there later.
I have had an issue with people trying to kick me just for being a human sentinel, and god does that get annoying. Yes, it is just warp and throw for powers (tech armor is incredibly situational), but with a low weight that basically means a throw every second or a detonation every 4, and I've only seen a few people who can actually keep up with that.
EDIT: Also, I don't understand why people wouldn't pick someone up unless it is actually impossible. There have been a few times I was within sight distance of someone down, but 2 phantoms + support in the way means even if I tried, I'd just die, so I do my best to either CC the area or clear it in time for either me or someone else to get in there later.
Essentially this. I dislike playing with Vanguards in random teams because most of them don't have a little something called "target priority" and tend to engage in acts of outright Leeroy Jenkins-ism on a regular basis. Kind of ironic how much I hate them, considering that my name is Vanguard. So yeah, they stole my name and now my kills. Thanks, arse.Jitters Caffeine said:
That said, regardless of who goes down on the team, I always help them back up. Vanguards included. Even if they're completely surrounded that's what a well-placed grenade and Tactical Cloak are for. Hell, if we're fighting the Geth it's even easier thanks to my Quarian Infiltrator having Sabotage.
No one gets left behind, no matter how obnoxious they are.
Isn't the Vanguards job, by the very definition of the word, to charge in first and break up the enemy? It's like getting pissy at an Infiltrator because they're back there popping heads instead of punching things.
Maybe if you take advantage of the hole he opened up instead of hanging back you'd do better on your precious scoreboards.
Maybe if you take advantage of the hole he opened up instead of hanging back you'd do better on your precious scoreboards.
A few people would have 1 person do it for a second, then realize I was higher overall rank than them and had better gear >___>.Swyftstar said:
The time it DID turn into a kick was this Drell Vanguard complaining loudly in Russian. Unfortunately my Russian isn't going enough to basically tell him to stfu. Still funny it took him 2 min to convince the other people.
I primarily play a drell vanguard, and I'd just like to say that a lot of the time if i'm charging to a low health target its out of nesessity: either i desperately need the shield power, or I'm running away from a particularly nasty group. Vanguards in general are probably overpowered in bronze, where the elite enemies tend to fly solo, as a vanguard can solo kill anything except a banshee with relative ease. That all changes in silver and gold, elites are always in groups of two or more allowing them to gib you between charges. Even with all the sheild onuses Drell vanguards have a pitiful 400 barrier strength.
The only class thats definitely overpowered in all difficulty levels is the Quarian Infiltrator fighting against Geth. The rest of the team can basically just afk the entire game.
The only class thats definitely overpowered in all difficulty levels is the Quarian Infiltrator fighting against Geth. The rest of the team can basically just afk the entire game.
Someone ran to the other side of the map, died and is now whining for a rez? 3 guesses which class.
Someone completely ignoring any and all objectives, even if time's almost up? 3 guesses which class.
Someone too busy killing things to get to the extraction point in time, costing you a full extraction? Gee, 3 guesses.
Damn Vanguards. Yeah, I'll just go save your stupid ass from bleeding out behind those 2 Banshees, 3 Brutes and 5 Ravagers, np.
Someone completely ignoring any and all objectives, even if time's almost up? 3 guesses which class.
Someone too busy killing things to get to the extraction point in time, costing you a full extraction? Gee, 3 guesses.
Damn Vanguards. Yeah, I'll just go save your stupid ass from bleeding out behind those 2 Banshees, 3 Brutes and 5 Ravagers, np.
The whole point of having an ability that both gets you closer and restores barriers is that it allows vanguards to get into the thick of things.
And as has been said lots before: it's a team game, the idea is that you finish the mission and get out alive. Intentionally leaving 1 man down because "Waaaaaaah, he's stealing all my kills, waaaaaah" is kinda dickish.
The scoring system is fairly unbalanced as is anyway, support classes don't do as much damage as pure damage classes and therefore 2 same skilled players will get very different scores, just relax and enjoy the game.
And as has been said lots before: it's a team game, the idea is that you finish the mission and get out alive. Intentionally leaving 1 man down because "Waaaaaaah, he's stealing all my kills, waaaaaah" is kinda dickish.
The scoring system is fairly unbalanced as is anyway, support classes don't do as much damage as pure damage classes and therefore 2 same skilled players will get very different scores, just relax and enjoy the game.
I have never played as a vanguard... Perhaps I should start Krogans are where its at although I prefer Turian soldier.
I must say its good to finally find a topic on Mass Effects multiplayer component, I thought Bioware would screw up but I am happy to report that I was wrong
Krogans are where its at although I prefer Turian soldier. I must say its good to finally find a topic on Mass Effects multiplayer component, I thought Bioware would screw up but I am happy to report that I was wrong