I can't get lost (Skyrim related)

[NotSoLoneWanderer]

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to spend hours looking for someone to talk to or something to find. I'd imagine most people wouldn't want to. I like exploration and hard work but I don't want to spend hours in a dungeon because I missed a book lying on a shelf.

 

[skywolfblue]

Personally, I hate getting lost.

I play open world RPGs for the choice and the scenery.

Not to go left instead of right in a labyrinth only to discover it was a dead end, or to head to the opposite side of the map because I forgot where the quest was. I find that frustrating, not fun.

 

[Snowblindblitz]

Mainly the huge world and the number crunching RPG aspects; I'm actually in that minority who doesn't like the way Oblivion did away with the whole "sword clearly connects, but you miss anyway" thing. To me, an RPG is about the character's skill, not the player's. Morrowind had a smaller world than Daggerfall or Arena, and that's where the altered fast travel and quest finding mechanics come in; it gave the /feel/ of a huge world, even though it's technically one of the smallest games in the series. Oblivion felt like I was Peter Pan and Cyrodil was Never Never land; it only existed when I was there. Morrowind and earlier felt like an actual world that I inhabited, but still existed whether I was there or not.

I've always had mixed feelings on number crunching. I can live without it, but like it when its there. I can live with the more action RPG feel when I'm not in a turn-based game. Skyrim's lack of stats outside of the 3 resources is odd to me, which is my real major complaint. The world feels much better then oblivion though. They always knocked out fast travel at the beginning, and added carriages similar to those bug things in Morrowind.

I do agree that the quest arrow needs to get knocked down on quests in the book finding category, as that is a huge issue with quests in skryim: I like knowing where I'm going, but thats a bit much to basically go

----->READ THIS<----- In a search the post quest.

 

[The Heik]

By adding the compass mark do we add or take away from the game?

Depends on why I'm exploring. If it's with a specific goal in mind, knowing the destination is useful, as Skyrim is friggin' gigantic. However if I'm exploring just for the sake of exploration, compass markers are annoying because they seem to act like Na'vi, continuously reminding about things I haven't gone to yet.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

By adding the compass mark do we add or take away from the game?

Sure it's great for newcomers and more casual (I hate using that word by the way!) players. Skyrim would benefit from a 'Hardcore Mode' like Fallout New Vegas did. All the way through playing all I could think about was what haven't I cleared off on my map, I had a pretty neat idea too.

I was in the middle of exploring a cave and came across a nice piece of enchanted loot, but my carry weight was almost full and there wasn't anything I was willing to give up. But seeing as I don't fast travel (on principal) and I wanted to get the main quest done, I thought it'd be really neat if I could add a little annotation. Maybe just a mark or a note on my map to remind me there's a piece of loot I wanted there! Kind of like in The Legend of Zelda Phantom Hourglass.

I'm waiting for the mod that removes the compass and simply allows me to use my map to navigate, maybe with an equippable minimap I can bind to a hotkey to bring up as I walk.

 

[Denariax]

Skyrim would benefit from not having a shoddy-as-crap control scheme for PC. It would be enjoyable if it wasn't the same game shot out again. People told me its different, and yeah its different because I was legitimately more bored than the last two.

Why are there so many goddamn topics about this game? It's like people enjoy being fed the same game year after year OH WAIT MW3

 

[Woodsey]

Morrowind's idea of navigation: here's a blank fucking map, and a not-brilliantly-written journal, now go. Which is wonderful, if you want to spend the entire freaking game lost.

Just turn the marker off in Skyrim. Problem solved.

By adding the compass mark do we add or take away from the game?

Sure it's great for newcomers and more casual (I hate using that word by the way!) players. Skyrim would benefit from a 'Hardcore Mode' like Fallout New Vegas did. All the way through playing all I could think about was what haven't I cleared off on my map, I had a pretty neat idea too.

I was in the middle of exploring a cave and came across a nice piece of enchanted loot, but my carry weight was almost full and there wasn't anything I was willing to give up. But seeing as I don't fast travel (on principal) and I wanted to get the main quest done, I thought it'd be really neat if I could add a little annotation. Maybe just a mark or a note on my map to remind me there's a piece of loot I wanted there! Kind of like in The Legend of Zelda Phantom Hourglass.

Prepare yourself, because I'm about to get old school in this shit: use a pen and paper.

New Vegas' hardcore mode was a complete farce, by the way.

 

[Antwerp Caveman]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

Well, it could be that developers want to make their games accessible to a wide audience. Thus making it easier to make sure everyone "can" enjoy it. Because, let's face it. I doubt many people want to look hours and hours for a rock in a mountain range.

But that doesn't matter, by that time, the game will have been bought and paid for already!

 

[SnakeoilSage]

Compass mark is optional, you can turn it off.

Also, Oblivion's dungeons complicated? Big, perhaps. Not complicated. They were as bland and generic as it's possible to be. They are the plain porridge of dungeons.

Still better than Dragon Age II's. Same map, different entry point...

 

[Tigurus]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

Well, it could be that developers want to make their games accessible to a wide audience. Thus making it easier to make sure everyone "can" enjoy it. Because, let's face it. I doubt many people want to look hours and hours for a rock in a mountain range.

But that doesn't matter, by that time, the game will have been bought and paid for already!

True but if the developers hear in Morrowind (lets take that as example) that people totally could hardly find their ways to objectives. Then they could be like "hey, let's improve that in our next game."

 

[ChocoFace]

snip

You can play it by simply turning all quests into inactives and just look at their descriptions.
There are still quests that you can get lost with, such as that Red Eagle one.

My first 10 or so hours in game was purely exploring and doing/finishing any quests that i happened to run across. So much fun.

 

[shrekfan246]

I guess the first couple of times it was mentioned here didn't take so let me try again this time with CAPS:

SKYRIM DOESN'T SUPPORT PLAYING WITH COMPASS MARK OFF. NPC GIVE YOU NO DIRECTIONS TO WHERE YOU HAVE TO GO AND YOU ARE EXPECTED TO USE THE COMPASS MARKER.

Also i never mentioned anything about fast travel.
I like the fast travel system....at least the one we have in Skyrim/Fallout 3.
First time you have to go somewhere your self, after that fast travel is completly fine with me.

Let me get this straight: You're complaining that you can't get lost while searching for quests and stuff because of the compass, but you're also complaining that if you turn off the compass, you'll get lost?

The actual quest log does usually tell you the area you need to find to continue the quest, and worst comes to worst you can turn the marker on for a second to find the spot and then turn it back off and amble in that general direction. Yes, NPC's don't give you exact locations and landmarks to search for, and the quest log usually simply tells you the name of the location, but is it really that detrimental? Honestly, there's so much content that I've stumbled upon that I typically get side-tracked from what I was originally doing and end up halfway across the map before I remember I went to Falkreath for a reason. In fact, sometimes I can get so turned around while traveling that even with the compass marker, I need to bring up the map just to make sure I'm still going the right way (also, having fifteen different markers all up at once can get confusing).

Is marking a quest, looking at the map, and unmarking it again really so different from bringing up the quest log every ten minutes and trying to memorize the location it's telling you to go to, oftentimes with only vague or out-right wrong directions? The quest log in vanilla Morrowind is a jumbled mess, and half the time NPCs didn't actually know the right direction to send you in.

 

[DarkRyter]

Really? I fucking love how I never get lost. Linear dungeons are fucking boss.

Go into room, kill some dudes, solve a puzzle, go to next room. = Fun.

Go into room. Kill some dudes. Find fork in path. Get Lost. Back track to beginning, try path again, find nothing. Get headache, stop playing game for a while. = Not fun.

Spending time trying to find something is not fun. I'm happy a game developer finally realized that.

 

[Choppaduel]

1. You can deselect the quest in the journal so the waypoint won't show up and just read the quest.

2. Instead of entering the cave the boring normal way you can try to find its exit and reach it, won't always work, but it sounds like somethings you'd like.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Anyway, I haven't played Skyrim yet, but if it's anything like Oblivion, then yes, you really can't get lost at all. I guess it's nice to have some sort of a clear goal, but it does kill the exploration a bit. And just turning off the compass (or modding it out) doesn't really work either, because the characters don't give you instructions on how to get anywhere. (Why would they, you have a compass.)

A system where the compass is defaulted to off would be great, because then you would need to have the game give you directions (like in Morrowind), but if you got stuck, you could turn on the compass.

*blinks* Soooo, you're complaining about a compass telling you where things are and then complaining that people aren't pointing it out to you in the game. That seems very contradictory.

*sigh* As for the game itself, I've managed to spend over 120+ hours on it. I've done a lot of exploring without taking many quests. The game takes that into account as you can have the item in question when they ask for it. The reaction they have is amusing to me.

So yes, if you want to explore, stop questing and start exploring. Wander about, look at things.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Really? I fucking love how I never get lost. Linear dungeons are fucking boss.

Go into room, kill some dudes, solve a puzzle, go to next room. = Fun.

Go into room. Kill some dudes. Find fork in path. Get Lost. Back track to beginning, try path again, find nothing. Get headache, stop playing game for a while. = Not fun.

Spending time trying to find something is not fun. I'm happy a game developer finally realized that.

It's not fun /for you./ There's an entire genre dedicated to the fact that people enjoy exploring twisting mazes -- they're called Dungeon Crawlers, and Daggerfall in particular actually fit into it. Point being, yeah, there's a sizable demographic that actually finds that sort of thing fun. It sounds to me like you'd prefer it if the game was a straightforward action game. That's fine, and there's plenty of games that fit the bill, but it gets annoying when companies that cater to a niche start moving towards a different one for the simple reason that it sells better.

Heck, I miss the time when even First Person Shooters often had that kind of twisting level design. Finding secret areas filled with powerups used to be a huge part of the genre. These days there's almost never more than one destination, and if there's a legitimate fork in the path, you can guarantee that it either converges at the end, or one of the paths dead ends into a powerup. The good news is that not all games are set up that way, and also that linearity isn't a bad thing if the game is properly designed around being linear.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Yeah they do. Your little journal thing often gives directions like "Southeast of Whiterun" and NPCs will often mark your map.

I have to disagree with you here. Compare this:
"Southeast of Whiterun"
To that:
"Eydis Fire-Eye tells me that the eggmine is located a short distance southwest of Balmora, in the bluffs west of the Odai River. The old suspension bridge across the Odai is just southeast of the mine entrance. I'm to follow the river south of Balmora until I see the bridge overhead."
Yeah, you are REALLY expected to use your trusty magical GPS. :/

Then that's not exploring, then? Op wanted to explore, and stuff like that. If the directions are that specific, it's the same as the GPS just a little less helpful.

Let's say a friend tells me where a really awesome restaurant is. If he gave exact directions to it as opposed to marking it on a GPS, I didn't go exploring for it; I followed his directions.

Except in one case you have tunnel vision focused on your compass and in the other you are looking at the world around you searching for landmarks.

It's the difference between fighting an enemy in a game, or hitting a QTE and watching your character do it for you.

Not really. It's more like a QTE compared to a cutscene. If specific directions are given, you have to do a little bit, but the bulk is done for you. Whereas a cutscene everything is done for you.

I understand what you mean, but I am not sure I agree. To me it just feels like it inhibits role-playing in what is otherwise a proper role-playing game.

I agree in that it can be excessive in some cases, but it can be removed rather easily. It's not a perfect system, but it's quite workable.

 

[SLy AsymMetrY]

The dungeon layouts in Skyrim are pretty easy. Today, I was surprised to make it out of a dungeon at a sprint. Even though I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings.

As far as being lost in Skyrim is concerned, the only way I get lost, is when I look at my clock and it says 4am.

 

[maninahat]

Aahh Morrowind...the only game where you have to find a rock near a bunch of other rocks <3
Yeah, I do say, it is kinda easy here. But hey, nearly all games are easy these days!

Well yes but why, why are games being dumbed down so much?

I guess it's the price to pay for becoming a more mainstream form of entertainment :/

They aren't being dumbed down, they are "getting less hard/frustrating". The main reason why games were hard was because they were badly designed, unfair, or asked players to do stupid, illogical or boring things. I can imagine Skyrim being infinitely more frustrating without the many convenient devices and mechanics.

 

[DarkRyter]

Really? I fucking love how I never get lost. Linear dungeons are fucking boss.

Go into room, kill some dudes, solve a puzzle, go to next room. = Fun.

Go into room. Kill some dudes. Find fork in path. Get Lost. Back track to beginning, try path again, find nothing. Get headache, stop playing game for a while. = Not fun.

Spending time trying to find something is not fun. I'm happy a game developer finally realized that.

It's not fun /for you./ There's an entire genre dedicated to the fact that people enjoy exploring twisting mazes -- they're called Dungeon Crawlers, and Daggerfall in particular actually fit into it. Point being, yeah, there's a sizable demographic that actually finds that sort of thing fun. It sounds to me like you'd prefer it if the game was a straightforward action game. That's fine, and there's plenty of games that fit the bill, but it gets annoying when companies that cater to a niche start moving towards a different one for the simple reason that it sells better.

Heck, I miss the time when even First Person Shooters often had that kind of twisting level design. Finding secret areas filled with powerups used to be a huge part of the genre. These days there's almost never more than one destination, and if there's a legitimate fork in the path, you can guarantee that it either converges at the end, or one of the paths dead ends into a powerup. The good news is that not all games are set up that way, and also that linearity isn't a bad thing if the game is properly designed around being linear.

There's a difference between open design, and needlessly padding out a level.

Note the two possible experience I mentioned. If I were to complete the dungeon in the second situation, what would be the difference between the two experiences?

Spoiler: Answer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aip2aIt0ROM#t=5m03s

When mazes are just that, mazes, they needlessly break the flow of the game. Solving a maze doesn't require ingenuity, skill, or effort. It only needs time, and time is what it takes.