I don't understand tipping culture...

[5ilver]

It's just one of those pointless stupid things people do just because their ma and pa used to do it.
See also: nationalism and the existence of several different measurement systems.

 

[5ilver]

As I understand the US tipping culture is an elaborate ruse by restaurants to make customers pay their staff's wages for them

Yes and no. The money is always going to come from somewhere.

Non-US countries where the service staff is payed a higher wage will also on average cost a lot more for a meal as well. The "tip" basically gets wrapped into the cost of the food. If your overhead becomes more costly than the product increases in price. At least with tipping a good worker is in theory rewarded more than a bad one.

Where are you coming up with this "non-US countries get higher wage" stuff? I live in Eastern Europe and getting 2.5$ per hour is considered an amazing wage.

 

[Strazdas]

Tipping is a stupid culture which we fetished to such degree there are actually people who earn their wages on tips. Waiters should (and are in coutnries with normal work ethics) paid normal wages (at least minimum or your work group agreement alternative). Tipping is expressing your appreciation for extraordinary service. This is the time you should tip to that person, personally, and noone else. in all other cases you are just supporting the illegal busienss practices of stealing from your workers at worst and are rewarding bad service at best.

Way to edit out the simple to follow mathematical explanation preceding the sentence you quoted. As I said, in the states not leaving a tip means your server actually loses money from their own pocket.

Yes, and you are suggesting to encourage this competely retarded way of managing pay. No, a person should not even accept a job in a position where they are forced to do what you write and if they do they are dicks to the whole country for supporting shady business deals.

Waiters pretty much live off those tips

And here we have a problem that you suggest to encourage.

So if you aren't in America and your waiters and waitresses are paid at or above minimum wage, then by all means don't tip them. But that logic just isn't applicable to the system we have here, and refusing to tip won't change how that system works.

Yes it will. You dont tip, the guy does not get paid. the guy does nto get paid, he does not work. he does not work, the owner offers higher wage to get the guy to work. cycle this till the wage offer is minimum wage and you got yourself a solution. except that there are peopel who think they are actually helping when they tip shit services.

I feel a bit torn on this subject because I simultaneously despise my customers for having to rely on them, and hope they tip me well. It wouldn't be so bad if the manager wasn't there, taking his cut.

how exactly does that work? Does the manager follow you around liek a dog and tear the money from your hands? because the money is given to you, personally, and belongs to you, alone. basically what your manager is doing is a robbery.

You NEED to tip in the states, you don't ANYWHERE ELSE. So if you don't in the states, you are a ****, but if you don't ANYWHERE ELSE you are a normal human being and tipping ANYWHERE ELSE makes you a generous human.

You dont need to tip in the states. you are expected to tip in the states. it is a bad social contruct that went even as far as ridiculous "Taxing tips as income". This has to stop. the sooner the better. and if it takes a few people beign unemployed for a bit, then so be it. I am not a **** if i dont tip. i am a **** if i tip when i should not.

You tip people in the service industry because that is part of their pay.

No. Tip is your personal gift to a person. His pay is his pay.

You know most restaurant workers are exempted from minimum wage laws and make less than minimum wage and the tips are supposed to get them to a livable wage right?

And you think this is a good system?

So when you have a sit down dinner and don't tip someone for their "competent service" you've just stiffed them some of their pay?

No. I didnt sitff them of their pay. Their employer did. their employer is the "dick" everyone seems to be naming. I paid for the product, full price, as i was suppsed to. that is all.

Also, no one wants to hear that its not your responsibility to tip, its a businesses job to pay employees. That is not how it works, and if you cannot afford the few dollars to tip then you cannot afford to eat out.

So what, apperently america is no longer capitalist? or are you just making things up?

Tipping is not optional. It's paying for the service you've been given. A person who receives good service and does not tip is a thief.

As long as it is not in a price it is optional. The service is arleady paid by the price. It is not my responsibility to be accuntable for a thief boss that wants to keep all the money i ALREADY PAID for the service.

So yeah. I like tip culture. It lowers food cost, increases employee morale (as long as people do tip), and it actually provides a lot of money for many of those workers.

Do tell me how does having to pay extra (tip) makes food price lower?

Where are you coming up with this "non-US countries get higher wage" stuff? I live in Eastern Europe and getting 2.5$ per hour is considered an amazing wage.

Come on, im in eastern europe and even though i earn around 3,5 dolalrs an hour, its a faily low (not minimum, that would be 2,5) wage. Unless you come from those few really poor countries, then yes i understand your position.

 

[teebeeohh]

here(Germany) the waiters don't live off their tips, thus i usually tip only very little and sometimes not at all when the service sucked. I tend to tip better when it's a place i tend to frequent where the waiter knows me because i really feel guilty when they give me a free drink with my food and i also really want the places that are within walking distance and serve good food to survive.

 

[themind]

If you can't afford to leave a tip, then stay home and cook for yourself. You tip a waiter/waitress because he/she takes your order, serves you coffee and refills, bring you the food. If you want to bus your own tray and pour your own drink, go get some fast food.

 

[Treeinthewoods]

Tipping is a stupid culture which we fetished to such degree there are actually people who earn their wages on tips. Waiters should (and are in coutnries with normal work ethics) paid normal wages (at least minimum or your work group agreement alternative). Tipping is expressing your appreciation for extraordinary service. This is the time you should tip to that person, personally, and noone else. in all other cases you are just supporting the illegal busienss practices of stealing from your workers at worst and are rewarding bad service at best.

Way to edit out the simple to follow mathematical explanation preceding the sentence you quoted. As I said, in the states not leaving a tip means your server actually loses money from their own pocket.

Yes, and you are suggesting to encourage this competely retarded way of managing pay. No, a person should not even accept a job in a position where they are forced to do what you write and if they do they are dicks to the whole country for supporting shady business deals.

Waiters pretty much live off those tips

And here we have a problem that you suggest to encourage.

So if you aren't in America and your waiters and waitresses are paid at or above minimum wage, then by all means don't tip them. But that logic just isn't applicable to the system we have here, and refusing to tip won't change how that system works.

Yes it will. You dont tip, the guy does not get paid. the guy does nto get paid, he does not work. he does not work, the owner offers higher wage to get the guy to work. cycle this till the wage offer is minimum wage and you got yourself a solution. except that there are peopel who think they are actually helping when they tip shit services.

I feel a bit torn on this subject because I simultaneously despise my customers for having to rely on them, and hope they tip me well. It wouldn't be so bad if the manager wasn't there, taking his cut.

how exactly does that work? Does the manager follow you around liek a dog and tear the money from your hands? because the money is given to you, personally, and belongs to you, alone. basically what your manager is doing is a robbery.

So you actually think it's that simple? They just won't work? It's a good thing that bill collectors will totally let poor people off the hook when they can't make enough to survive. You are the worst type of person, take your idea of social justice and fight it on a government level instead of punishing someone who doesn't have the power to change anything.

Seriously, you are going to fight the system by punishing the lowest level cogs in the machine? Laughable at best. Fortunately the majority of people don't think like you so servers can continue to get by instead of starving for your "ethics."

 

[idarkphoenixi]

At first I assumed tipping was something you did if you really enjoyed someone's service, as a way of saying thanks. I've done it a few times.
According to America however, tipping is almost mandatory, regardless of the service. In fact, sometimes they add the tip as part of your bill. If you don't tip, then you're seen as a horrible person.

Honestly, I find that both insulting and disgusting.

It's insulting because tipping is supposed to be a choice "I" make. I am not obliged to do it and I should not be shamed if I choose not to. When it comes to the point that you add the tip as a part of my bill, then it's no longer tipping. If I'm supposed to pay extra to have my food delivered to my table then I'd rather get up and fetch the plate myself.

It's also disgusting because yes, they pretty much live off those tips. The reason tipping in America is so enforced is basically because the people working there get paid almost nothing, that is fucked up. It's not my job to pay a person their wage, for doing nothing more than their job. Why even have a job if you rely on the customers giving you money?
I feel bad for them having to put up with so much shit but that system needs to change.

It's your money, so do with it as you please. If you want to give extra to a person then fine, it's not my business. But the way the world works (or at least, the way it should work) is if you're doing a job, then you are getting paid for that job. That's how every other industry functions.
In short - I'm not your employer. It's not my responsibility to make sure you can afford food to eat, that's the whole reason you're working a job.

 

[Bruce]

I tip between 10% to 20%. I have worked as a waiter, I had a good boss, the job itself sucked.

Okay here is why you tip:

Waiting tables is basically self-employment. The pay is generally either going to be minimum wage or possibly even non-existent. Waiters will remember the people who don't tip, and they will remember for a long time.

What tip you get as a waiter is basically taken as a reflection on the service you give. Somebody doesn't tip it means you gave shit service, and generally people don't like being told they suck at their jobs.

Consider this: a comedian can get rave reviews in ten papers, but the eleventh that panned his show will be the one that gets remembered. If you don't tip you are that eleventh reviewer, and if you routinely don't tip you can expect to start getting your food with a bit of well deserved extra mouth sauce because fuck you.

And yes, it is very possible to get a name as a stingy prick. Waiters talk to each other, and this is why some people don't get good service wherever they go.

 

[runic knight]

As I understand the US tipping culture is an elaborate ruse by restaurants to make customers pay their staff's wages for them

Yes and no. The money is always going to come from somewhere.

Non-US countries where the service staff is payed a higher wage will also on average cost a lot more for a meal as well. The "tip" basically gets wrapped into the cost of the food. If your overhead becomes more costly than the product increases in price. At least with tipping a good worker is in theory rewarded more than a bad one.

Where are you coming up with this "non-US countries get higher wage" stuff? I live in Eastern Europe and getting 2.5$ per hour is considered an amazing wage.

I'll assume you factored in a general currency exchange rate before posting just for simplicity.
Now Factor in the cost of living there as well, and any sort of minimum wage enforced. It is more costly to live in the US in some places then in Europe in others, with the issue here being that the wage of servers being no where near enough to live off of without tips added in and barely that after.
So in regards to the cost of living, that $2.50 you claim is a good wage is only a good wage because everything else is cheaper. That $2.50 goes farther then the $4.50 in the US that may be the base server wage, where the minimum wage is around $7.50, and that is barely enough for a single person to live off of based on simple cost of living. Between apartments, transportation and the subsequently overpriced, occasionally mandatory insurance(remember, the States have little public transport and long commutes from the poorer areas to the jobs where people would actually go to and be served, so personal transportation is required in many places to have a job in the first place) and the bloated price of food itself, it just doesn't stretch that far here.

 

[Saltyk]

I don't get not tipping. These people are not only providing you with a service, but handling your food. It would be real easy for them to mess with it. That's one reason I tend to be a "perfect customer" and be polite and even joke with my server. The other is having some basic respect for them as human beings.

I'll generally tip a small amount, like 5 dollars (considering I generally buy less than $20 in food that's generous) or an amount with change that makes it even. The only time I refuse to tip is really terrible service. Only done that once, though.

I don't tip as a matter of principle- and i have a worked in restaurant before. When you pay money in a restaurant you're paying for a product and a service which is covered under the price of the food you order from the menu. Unless the food is priced in such a way that it doesn't include the service then i have no objections to tipping. Otherwise you are just paying twice over for a service you paid for when you ordered the food. As a customer, it feels like deceitful behaviour.

Your first problem might be being Australian, where the average wage is high enough that people in the service industry can actually get by on just their normal pay.

In the US, people who are in "tipping" jobs can get paid as low at $2.50 an hour, though their employers are supposed to be legally required to ensure they get the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour if their tips don't cover it.

This is why i would tip in America, but not anywhere else that pays it's staff at least minimum wage. I don't think it's a fair system at all though. I'm even told you're expected to tip the barman every time you order a drink.

Out of interest- do you feel the price of an item of food in a typical restaurant covers both product and service or just product?

I don't feel bad for those living off tips. I've known people who would always claim a certain amount of money. No matter how much they earned, though they usually earned more than what they claimed. You see, the tips are still taxable, and doing that guarantees that you can stay on a lower tax bracket. And a lot of the money they earn goes unclaimed. I'd do this if I worked in such a job.

 

[asinann]

Waiters pretty much live off those tips so think of it as helping out another human being in rough times. Anyone who has been a waiter will know that it is very helpful to tip good.

Which makes it quite disgusting when you find the manager of a place pocketing a large percentage of tips taken in before dividing among the staff. :I

Dividing tips among the staff always seemed like bullshit to me: I tipped THIS guy because he did a job, the rest of them didn't earn it.

What about the people who made your food that get minimum wage for doing the hardest part of the job?

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Am I just being stingy or do other people feel this way? Also if you do follow the tipping culture could you explain why you do so?

Lot's of people feel this way. The way that American culture treats tips is aggravating to many people, myself included.

But unfortunately that's kind of the way the system works in the US. If you don't tip, you are underpaying the culturally-accepted fair price for your service, and stiffing some poor, hard-working employee out of part of their bill.

Hate to say this, but it's not probably localized to the US.

I went to school in Canada. My girlfriend (a girl who was raised most of her life in China) at the time had a friend who had a birthday, and we went to one of those themed diners in Montreal. It was three blocks down from McGill, and under an office building. That's all I can give you.

So, there were 12 of us. The waitress got a tip from everyone and I was about to put in... when she stopped me. She got our order wrong, and she didn't refill until we asked. I tried to say it was a large table, but that night there was only three other tables in the joint that had anyone in there. It goes against what my dad taught me, but this woman gave me loving, so I listened. We put in our regular money and we got ready to leave.

The waitress looked over the bill, and called after us before we left. She said this 'You didn't leave a tip.'

My ex jaw dropped so hard, I'd be surprised if they weren't still doing construction on the floor fixing it, and that was in 2005. My ex gave the reasons why, the waitress gave the reasons I gave, and we eventually didn't pay the tip. I reached for my wallet and I could feel the fury of thousand of years of Hearty Chinese Warriors emitting from this woman, as if I did pay, all my life would be for naught. So we left, and I heard about it for weeks after.

For those who tip, for those who don't and both sides knowing that waitress and waiters get lousy pay... is it our (US) fault if we don't even if we don't make the pay grade? Is it our fault because we do tip and industry can screw them over saying you'll get tips if you're good? Who's to blame here?

 

[Slycne]

Where are you coming up with this "non-US countries get higher wage" stuff? I live in Eastern Europe and getting 2.5$ per hour is considered an amazing wage.

To be fair I guess I should have said a higher living wage, as the same wage can go further in an area where the cost of living is lower. But basically what I'm saying is that it all averages out, if your sales tax is really cheap you probably pay more property tax, if your workers are paid a high enough wage that a tip isn't necessary than the food is probably more expensive.

Anecdotally, from the times I've traveled outside the US, and even beyond the more tourist expense areas, a similar quality meal would be much more expensive than what we're used to here, but it evens out once tip starts being considered.

 

[themind]

I tip between 10% to 20%. I have worked as a waiter, I had a good boss, the job itself sucked.

Okay here is why you tip:

Waiting tables is basically self-employment. The pay is generally either going to be minimum wage or possibly even non-existent. Waiters will remember the people who don't tip, and they will remember for a long time.

What tip you get as a waiter is basically taken as a reflection on the service you give. Somebody doesn't tip it means you gave shit service, and generally people don't like being told they suck at their jobs.

Consider this: a comedian can get rave reviews in ten papers, but the eleventh that panned his show will be the one that gets remembered. If you don't tip you are that eleventh reviewer, and if you routinely don't tip you can expect to start getting your food with a bit of well deserved extra mouth sauce because fuck you.

And yes, it is very possible to get a name as a stingy prick. Waiters talk to each other, and this is why some people don't get good service wherever they go.

Well said.

On top of that, if you don't tip and continue to frequent the same restaurant, you deserve shitty service.

As I said in my original post, if you can afford a 40-50 dollar meal, but can't afford a small tip, than go to MacDonalds for a $12 Big Mac combo, bus your own tray, and pour your own beverage.

 

[runic knight]

Tipping is a stupid culture which we fetished to such degree there are actually people who earn their wages on tips. Waiters should (and are in coutnries with normal work ethics) paid normal wages (at least minimum or your work group agreement alternative). Tipping is expressing your appreciation for extraordinary service. This is the time you should tip to that person, personally, and noone else. in all other cases you are just supporting the illegal busienss practices of stealing from your workers at worst and are rewarding bad service at best.

Way to edit out the simple to follow mathematical explanation preceding the sentence you quoted. As I said, in the states not leaving a tip means your server actually loses money from their own pocket.

Yes, and you are suggesting to encourage this competely retarded way of managing pay. No, a person should not even accept a job in a position where they are forced to do what you write and if they do they are dicks to the whole country for supporting shady business deals.

Waiters pretty much live off those tips

And here we have a problem that you suggest to encourage.

So if you aren't in America and your waiters and waitresses are paid at or above minimum wage, then by all means don't tip them. But that logic just isn't applicable to the system we have here, and refusing to tip won't change how that system works.

Yes it will. You dont tip, the guy does not get paid. the guy does nto get paid, he does not work. he does not work, the owner offers higher wage to get the guy to work. cycle this till the wage offer is minimum wage and you got yourself a solution. except that there are peopel who think they are actually helping when they tip shit services.

I feel a bit torn on this subject because I simultaneously despise my customers for having to rely on them, and hope they tip me well. It wouldn't be so bad if the manager wasn't there, taking his cut.

how exactly does that work? Does the manager follow you around liek a dog and tear the money from your hands? because the money is given to you, personally, and belongs to you, alone. basically what your manager is doing is a robbery.

You are quite naive it seems. You argue a system is broken (I'll agree there) but do so in a way that blames the ones hurt the most by that very system as though they had any say or option besides. They aren't paid normal wages and have no means of forcing that onto an employer in a nation where the poor are treated as scapegoats and the ones with money are allowed to do so. Yes, there do exist laws (which are hard to enforce and often result in said employe being fired or forced to challenge a more funded business in a court) to try to stop that, but in this economy, many would sooner fire an employee and grab a new one from the crowds of unemployed then deal with a trouble maker. So people put up with it in order to maintain their meager wages. Working poor have it hard enough.

People need to money to live, so they are willing to take whatever shitty job they can at times. There is no "guy is paid more to work", rather "guy is fired because we have a dozen others who will work at the shit pay we offer".

the system is anti-worker to its core at the moment, so screwing them over more by not tipping is a dick move. Want the system to change, that has to come from the top down.
Besides, the price of the service food itself is often less then european counterparts because the tip is not added to the base price. So you would pay the equivalent of a meal with a 10% tip in the states as you would for one without a tip across the pond. The idea is that by making the tip a tip instead of part of the price, it makes the buyer more willing to spend there as it is a deal at first glance. I agree the idea is dumb for the workers, but marketing rarely makes a lot of since to anyone but the bottom line watchers.

 

[Strazdas]

If you can't afford to leave a tip, then stay home and cook for yourself. You tip a waiter/waitress because he/she takes your order, serves you coffee and refills, bring you the food. If you want to bus your own tray and pour your own drink, go get some fast food.

No. You tip the watress because she took extra care of you. You already pay for "takes your order, serves you coffee and refills, bring you the food" iin the bill.

So you actually think it's that simple? They just won't work? It's a good thing that bill collectors will totally let poor people off the hook when they can't make enough to survive. You are the worst type of person, take your idea of social justice and fight it on a government level instead of punishing someone who doesn't have the power to change anything.

Seriously, you are going to fight the system by punishing the lowest level cogs in the machine? Laughable at best. Fortunately the majority of people don't think like you so servers can continue to get by instead of starving for your "ethics."

Well, if the waitstaff are unable to stand for themselves to such extent, that is the only solution. Continuing the tipping culture is not however. but then again, this is US, where wellfare system does not exist and capitalism is rampant. i guess as long as you got moeny that you stole from your workers your always in the right.
Waitstaff HAS the pwoer to change things. in fact ALL americans do. they dont for multitude of reasons though, and belief that they can just get away on tips is one of them.
Edcept that servers dont "Get by". they get paid way bellow minimum wage and even get taxed on gifts towards them. and there are peopel who think this is a good system. makes my head hurt....

Now Factor in the cost of living there as well, and any sort of minimum wage enforced.

Save for rent, its not that different. in fact you get many things, like Gasoline, way cheaper. we laugh when you cry about gasoline prices rising. we already got double that.

That $2.50 goes farther then the $4.50 in the US that may be the base server wage, where the minimum wage is around $7.50, and that is barely enough for a single person to live off of based on simple cost of living

Hardly. I cant speak for everyone, but i noticed a lot of americans like to waste money. I once had to prove somone you can live off of 1000 dollars a month. seriuosly.....

I don't get not tipping. These people are not only providing you with a service, but handling your food. It would be real easy for them to mess with it. That's one reason I tend to be a "perfect customer" and be polite and even joke with my server.

So you tip because your afraid some asshole is going to poison you if you dont give him extra money? maybe they shoudl flat otu come and tell you its a robbery then?

What about the people who made your food that get minimum wage for doing the hardest part of the job?

Did he? what if i were to tip the waitress, even though the food tasted like ass, but the service was exceptional? should he still get a cut to the cook?

To be fair I guess I should have said a higher living wage, as the same wage can go further in an area where the cost of living is lower. But basically what I'm saying is that it all averages out, if your sales tax is really cheap you probably pay more property tax, if your workers are paid a high enough wage that a tip isn't necessary than the food is probably more expensive.

except that it isnt. The amount we can buy with a montly pay does not even come clsoe to half of what you can buy with a minimum monthly pay. the purchase power parity is way bellow here.

You want to know something funny. On average managers make about the same as the wait staff and the restaurant makes on average 1-3 percent in profit.

I cant distupe the managers pays, but no sane investor would ever invest in a company that makes 3% or less profit. This is simpyl a lie or every restaurant would dissapear very fast.

You are quite naive it seems. You argue a system is broken (I'll agree there) but do so in a way that blames the ones hurt the most by that very system as though they had any say or option besides. They aren't paid normal wages and have no means of forcing that onto an employer in a nation where the poor are treated as scapegoats and the ones with money are allowed to do so. Yes, there do exist laws (which are hard to enforce and often result in said employe being fired or forced to challenge a more funded business in a court) to try to stop that, but in this economy, many would sooner fire an employee and grab a new one from the crowds of unemployed then deal with a trouble maker. So people put up with it in order to maintain their meager wages. Working poor have it hard enough.

People need to money to live, so they are willing to take whatever shitty job they can at times. There is no "guy is paid more to work", rather "guy is fired because we have a dozen others who will work at the shit pay we offer".

the system is anti-worker to its core at the moment, so screwing them over more by not tipping is a dick move. Want the system to change, that has to come from the top down.
Besides, the price of the service food itself is often less then european counterparts because the tip is not added to the base price. So you would pay the equivalent of a meal with a 10% tip in the states as you would for one without a tip across the pond. The idea is that by making the tip a tip instead of part of the price, it makes the buyer more willing to spend there as it is a deal at first glance. I agree the idea is dumb for the workers, but marketing rarely makes a lot of since to anyone but the bottom line watchers.

I blame the ones that pay bellow minimum wage.
Waitstaff DOES have a say. they dont say anything though. becasue you have a shitty system that they are using, because shitty costumers tip any service, thus thep ropblem persists.
They HAVE means of forcing it to employer. Resue to work bellwo minimum wage. if you have enough waitstaff doing this, the emplyer will ahve no choice but to agree or go under. People who accept to work for such wage really just say that its ok to dont pay them enough to live by.
ALL system changes came bottom up. because top is happy with currrent system, it lets them be on top after all. it will NEVER come from top down.
If the price was higher and there woudl be no tips, that would be a iable solution, instead of false advertisement and robbery.

 

[Jenny Jones]

Maybe those of you who are supporting the illegal business practises of illegal restaurants should ask the waiter if they are usually paid minimum wage at the start of the meal. If not, phone the appropriate government department and report the establishment before going somewhere else and notifying the employer that you refuse to support them on those grounds.

As far as I can tell the waiters/waitresses should receive minimum wage regardless of whether you tip or not and employers may only use tips to reduce how much they have to pay to the employees. Also from what I gather it's illegal in America to levy the tips against kitchen staff or janitors and the employer may not take a cut either.

 

[asinann]

I generally don't tip. I live in the U.K., so tipping isn't really necessary because everyone gets minimum wage and stuff. But I don't eat out very often anyway.
I usually let fast food delivery people keep the change, if that counts for anything. I'm guessing all the money just ends up going to the company though.

Some states (mostly the ones that don't vote for republicans) don't allow for a minimum wage exemption. The employer pays minimum wage and then they get tips on top of it.