I don't understand tipping culture...

[thethird0611]

If a food place pays you less than minimum wage in the US...can't you like...report them for breaking the law? Sue them?

OT: I don't like tips, I already paid for the food and the service.

To kind of extend on what thedarksheep said...

They can pay you less than minimum wage... IF you make enough tips to cover it. Here in Texas, people who run on tips can be paid as little as 2.13 an hour, but they MUST get at least the minimum wage of 7.25 an hour. If they dont, the employer must cover the rest of it.

EDIT:

If you want to tip, you're free to - but the service staff will not struggle with money any more than other people with an equivalent wage will if you don't.

In the state in which I live, the minimum cash wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 per hour, compaired to the minimum wage of a non-tipped employee, which is $7.25 per hour.
It's nearly impossible to live off of minimum wage, so how the hell could they do it with less than a third of that?

Because, like in Texas where the minimum wage for tipping employees is 2.13, if employees dont make 5.12 in tips for each hour they worked, the employer must cover the rest of it.

So, they are going to get minimum wage either way.

Yes, the employer must cover it, however, at many establishments in Texas, if the employer covers it, that employee will not be there very long. They make it "understood" that if you report below min wage, you will be replaced by someone who will not. I bartended in college at quite a few establishments in Texas, and this is VERY common. It is the rule rather than the exception.

Im actually going to have to call you out on that for some bad information.

I was a shift manager with a place that had drivers who were paid less than minimum wage because of their tips. The only people who got fired for making low tips made those low tips for a reason. So really, it wasnt about the tips of why they were fired.

Also, I knew waiters in other restaurants, other drivers, etc. (you kinda do in a college town), and none of them ever had any problems with being fired for receiving low tip. Some had complaints about the tips being split and -only- making minimum wage after the employer covered it, but not once have I heard someone get fired for that. Oh, this list of people also included some managers form those stores to, its surprising how I connected to them in that position.

But yeah, I would say its the exception than the rule that people would get fired for not making enough tips.

I will put a side note here, im not sure about the bar tending area. Though we did have an active bar scene and even had one of my drivers bar tend, and he never said anything near that, and that he got quite a good amount of tips, sometimes just for uncapping a bottle of beer.

EDIT: Also, just saw your most recent post. Talking to another college manager Glad to meet ya.

 

[FireDr@gon]

From bartending, and being a bar manager in college I can tell you it is definitely a BAD idea to allow staff to drink, rather there should be a strict policy of NO drinking on the job. Not even a little bit. You don't want it to become a habit.
1) drunk chef = really BAD idea. Hell they could burn the whole place down or start serving raw chicken.
2) I fired bartenders and servers for drinking on the job. Sorry no one drinking should be serving alcohol period.

The bartender is responsible for ensuring that customers are not over served, that drunks aren't driving, that the till is right at the end of the day, that the servers aren't skimming, that the bar costs remain low, that there are not any minors in their establishments. There is way too much responsibility for a bartender to be drinking, and there is no room for a buzzed bartender behind the bar. What happens when you have to call the police, fire or ambulance or have deal with an agitated customer and your buzzed? That is just a really bad idea to allow anyone to drink at work at all.

that's not really anything to do with the topic of the thread, and of all the things i said you definitely picked an odd thing to comment on but, since you did... i never drank the drinks, or condone workplace drinking, i was using allegory to highlight the problems in a tipping culture.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

If a food place pays you less than minimum wage in the US...can't you like...report them for breaking the law? Sue them?

OT: I don't like tips, I already paid for the food and the service.

To kind of extend on what thedarksheep said...

They can pay you less than minimum wage... IF you make enough tips to cover it. Here in Texas, people who run on tips can be paid as little as 2.13 an hour, but they MUST get at least the minimum wage of 7.25 an hour. If they dont, the employer must cover the rest of it.

EDIT:

If you want to tip, you're free to - but the service staff will not struggle with money any more than other people with an equivalent wage will if you don't.

In the state in which I live, the minimum cash wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 per hour, compaired to the minimum wage of a non-tipped employee, which is $7.25 per hour.
It's nearly impossible to live off of minimum wage, so how the hell could they do it with less than a third of that?

Because, like in Texas where the minimum wage for tipping employees is 2.13, if employees dont make 5.12 in tips for each hour they worked, the employer must cover the rest of it.

So, they are going to get minimum wage either way.

Yes, the employer must cover it, however, at many establishments in Texas, if the employer covers it, that employee will not be there very long. They make it "understood" that if you report below min wage, you will be replaced by someone who will not. I bartended in college at quite a few establishments in Texas, and this is VERY common. It is the rule rather than the exception.

Im actually going to have to call you out on that for some bad information.

I was a shift manager with a place that had drivers who were paid less than minimum wage because of their tips. The only people who got fired for making low tips made those low tips for a reason. So really, it wasnt about the tips of why they were fired.

Also, I knew waiters in other restaurants, other drivers, etc. (you kinda do in a college town), and none of them ever had any problems with being fired for receiving low tip. Some had complaints about the tips being split and -only- making minimum wage after the employer covered it, but not once have I heard someone get fired for that. Oh, this list of people also included some managers form those stores to, its surprising how I connected to them in that position.

But yeah, I would say its the exception than the rule that people would get fired for not making enough tips.

I will put a side note here, im not sure about the bar tending area. Though we did have an active bar scene and even had one of my drivers bar tend, and he never said anything near that, and that he got quite a good amount of tips, sometimes just for uncapping a bottle of beer.

EDIT: Also, just saw your most recent post. Talking to another college manager Glad to meet ya.

This isn't bad info. Would be nice if it was. At the bars it wasn't much of a problem for me, the BIG problems are at the big chains part time day shift employees. They are severely overstaffed, so they only get a few tables a shift, but when you calc their hours of prep work/cleaning they don't make the cut. The way it usually works is they have a couple of main servers who get the best sections, they make good money, everyone else gets crappy sections and doesn't make enough to make min wage. They get replaced very frequently because if they cost the establishment more money they get cut quick.

Which college town? 6th street Austin here. Also bartended @ Greenville ave, Skillman, Ellum in Dallas, Garland, & Rockwall. In college I Bartended, won 3 speed bar comps, Bar manager, Bar designer and coordinator, & Scouted bands. Good times!

I will have to disagree with you on people being fired for reporting. I saw it happen at too many places to too many people. When I started working at Pizza Inn at 14 as a waitress, they flat out told you if you report it you won't be there. They hire too many people at the chains, so they can't earn enough to live, and they don't want to pay them more. I only worked at Pizza Inn until I was 16, but the sheer number of waitstaff we went through was insane. Delivery drivers were paid more than servers though, and it seems common for establishments to be willing to pay drivers more.

I learned real quick though not to work at a franchise or chain.. YUCK! I feel sorry for them. When friends would tell me what they made I didn't want them to know what I made. LOL Once I went bar, I was bringing in $500 a night in tips doing speed bar, then moved up to fine dining where people were crazy enough to pay $250 for a sip of a port.

EDIT:
Here I was thinking the Bars weren't that bad because, although yes, I have experienced employers who did not pay bartenders/ wait staff at all, I usually made more than enough in tips that I didn't worry about it. But then I just read an article on charges being brought against a bar that I actually worked at for a couple of weeks until I had a better offer.
I worked at *hides face* Treasure Island for 2 weeks once. LMAO!:
"Yassine Enterprises is also in the process of being sued by former employees. Over 50 employees are involved a class action lawsuit over minimum wage violations."

"As background, on September 9, 2011 a former employee filed a federal lawsuit against Yassine Enterprises LLC claiming that his employer had an established practice of failing to pay him and other staff proper wages. The former employee claims that Yassine Enterprises was in violation of federal minimum wage requirements by generally paying no wages at all to tipped employees, and that it also did not follow the mandatory ?tip credit? steps to authorize payment of a reduced minimum wage from $7.25 to $2.13 per hour. He alleges that he, along with other staff, are entitled under federal law to receive back pay of $7.25 per hour for all hours worked while employed by certain bars and nightclubs owned by Yassine Enterprises, and that this base amount should be doubled under federal law for a total of $14.50 per hour for each hour worked during the approximately three year period preceding the date the suit was filed."
http://digitaltexan.net/2012/austin-local-news/feds-austin-police-raid-6th-street-downtown-bars-owned-mike-yassine/article30021/#.UgSND_Uo7cs

Although I know the guys I worked with always made less than females. I often don't think about how bad they have it. Since I always made more than enough, I often didn't look at how bad others had it. I guess I was wrong, Bars can be just as bad as the chains for some people.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

People around here generally tip 10%-20%. But I remember plenty of times where me and my friends tipped well under that, but I always thought we were kinda excused being teenagers at the time and were basically broke.

I've always been taught that one tips as a thanks for good service. I personally always thought waitressing would be a fucking horrible job so I didn't complain too much about tipping, except when you're going for 20% on a larger bill.

Now 5%-10% sounds like change anyway so I don't know how anyone can complain about that. Honestly, my knee-jerk reaction to you guys talking about not tipping kinda made me think you were all cheap scumbags. Like the only people I know that don't tip around here are generally scumbags, in other areas as well.

And the pressure to tip doesn't come from the restaurant or waiting staff, it comes from the people who live around here. Common courtesy dictates that you would tip if the service was good and everyone is behind that, not just the waitress.

On a separate note, I once read a BBC article about how many Americans soldiers had children out of wedlock in Britain during their station there during WWII. One of the things the article mentioned was how British women thought the American soldiers were so gangster and cool because of the way they were throwing their money around as if they didn't care. The money they had just recently come into being soldiers. One of those details was that the American soldiers would tip lavishly.

^I don't know about you, but that sounds like a massive cock stroking for some Americans. Especially when I read some posts about people living in the UK and not tipping.

 

[ClockworkPenguin]

If a food place pays you less than minimum wage in the US...can't you like...report them for breaking the law? Sue them?

OT: I don't like tips, I already paid for the food and the service.

To kind of extend on what thedarksheep said...

They can pay you less than minimum wage... IF you make enough tips to cover it. Here in Texas, people who run on tips can be paid as little as 2.13 an hour, but they MUST get at least the minimum wage of 7.25 an hour. If they dont, the employer must cover the rest of it.

EDIT:

If you want to tip, you're free to - but the service staff will not struggle with money any more than other people with an equivalent wage will if you don't.

In the state in which I live, the minimum cash wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 per hour, compaired to the minimum wage of a non-tipped employee, which is $7.25 per hour.
It's nearly impossible to live off of minimum wage, so how the hell could they do it with less than a third of that?

Because, like in Texas where the minimum wage for tipping employees is 2.13, if employees dont make 5.12 in tips for each hour they worked, the employer must cover the rest of it.

So, they are going to get minimum wage either way.

Yes, the employer must cover it, however, at many establishments in Texas, if the employer covers it, that employee will not be there very long. They make it "understood" that if you report below min wage, you will be replaced by someone who will not. I bartended in college at quite a few establishments in Texas, and this is VERY common. It is the rule rather than the exception.

Ah, see in the UK, if they sacked you for actually using employee rights, you could take them to court for unfair dismissal and you'd probably win. (For the moment, the Conservatives are doing away with a lot of employee rights, but that's another rant.)

 

[Korsgaard]

Oddly enough, I just wrote an op-ed about this myself.

http://www.korsgaardscommentary.com/2013/08/some-tips-about-tipping.html

Long story short, I'm with Mr. Pink on tipping - if I get great service, I'll happily leave a tip. Quite a generious tip. But leaving a tip 'just because', regardless of service? Not a chance.

 

[teisjm]

Where i live, to my knowledge at least, the waiters' salleries are included in the price of the meals, so i kinda hate on the idea of tipping where i live.
What i hate about it is the that peopel who already have an hourly/daily/monthly sallery, sometimes act with some sort of excpectance to be paid extra for doing the job they're already beeing paid to do.
In Denmark, you're already peeing paid for waiting tables, don't excpect to be paid an additional sallery just because people are paid in a different way in other countries.
I don't ask my boss to hand me an additional sallery in cash, just because someone somewhere in the world is paid in cash instead of wired money.
Especially the "if you don't tip, you're a dick" part pisses me off.
I don't get paid extra for doing my job, hardly anyone else gets paid extra just for doing their job.
In a lot of bussinesses, if your job involves interacting with costumers, beeing nice and helpfull is thought of as part of your job, and is to be excpected, heck, if i had employees who didn't treat our costumers well, i'd fire them for not taking their job seriously.
Why should waiters be paid extra, just to do their job like the rest of us?

When i'm travelling, i try to figure out how the country i'm in works. If the waiters aren't paid, apart from the tips, i'll tip, but if they are, i won't, for the above mentioned reasons,

 

[The Material Sheep]

If a food place pays you less than minimum wage in the US...can't you like...report them for breaking the law? Sue them?

OT: I don't like tips, I already paid for the food and the service.

To kind of extend on what thedarksheep said...

They can pay you less than minimum wage... IF you make enough tips to cover it. Here in Texas, people who run on tips can be paid as little as 2.13 an hour, but they MUST get at least the minimum wage of 7.25 an hour. If they dont, the employer must cover the rest of it.

EDIT:

If you want to tip, you're free to - but the service staff will not struggle with money any more than other people with an equivalent wage will if you don't.

In the state in which I live, the minimum cash wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 per hour, compaired to the minimum wage of a non-tipped employee, which is $7.25 per hour.
It's nearly impossible to live off of minimum wage, so how the hell could they do it with less than a third of that?

Because, like in Texas where the minimum wage for tipping employees is 2.13, if employees dont make 5.12 in tips for each hour they worked, the employer must cover the rest of it.

So, they are going to get minimum wage either way.

Yes, the employer must cover it, however, at many establishments in Texas, if the employer covers it, that employee will not be there very long. They make it "understood" that if you report below min wage, you will be replaced by someone who will not. I bartended in college at quite a few establishments in Texas, and this is VERY common. It is the rule rather than the exception.

Ah, see in the UK, if they sacked you for actually using employee rights, you could take them to court for unfair dismissal and you'd probably win. (For the moment, the Conservatives are doing away with a lot of employee rights, but that's another rant.)

See that's not the logic on it. The logic is your not pulling your weight, and if your consistently getting bad tips in a culture where most people viewing tipping as mandatory, and where everyone ELSE is getting good to decent tips, then it's very likely it's a performance issue. If you get fired for doing your job poorly, that's not some sinister ploy on the part of the employer to not pay their employee. That's have some form of quality assurance from employees. The method isn't perfect, but it's not this malicious scheme. Whats a good a reason for firing an employee, if not for their performance or their incompatibility with the job in question?

EDIT

To the poster above me. I don't think the, if you don't tip your a dick, comment was pointed at anyone and everyone. It was pointed towards those of us in American, where certain jobs are payed mainly on tips. In American it's a part of the service, and culturally expected. You don't have to do it, but you are being a bit of a dick for not doing it. In other places you'd find the waiter's pay in the price of the food, but it's not the case in America. Sure don't tip, also if your not going to tip, don't eat at dine in places in America.

 

[Benny Blanco]

TIP= To Insure Promptness.

A tip is a reward for good service. Give me good service, get a tip. Give me poor service, don't get a tip. Automatically tipping a server removes their incentive to give you good service, not to mention the things some places do in terms of pooling tips...

When in the US I DO tip because it's the culture (and because minimum wage is piss-poor; well below living wage in NYC for instance...) but elsewhere you really have to earn it, and it's at MY discretion.

There's plenty of shitty jobs where no-one gets tipped (I have done a lot of them) so if you're serving me, don't expect a tip unless the service is good.

Also it's considered rude here to tip a business owner, such as a restaurateur, if they serve you. I don't know if that applies in the US. No-one tips cash in pubs/bars here, although the more egalitarian tradition of buying the server a drink is well-established and contradicts the normal rule about tipping proprietors, for instance if a pub landlord serves you.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

OT: Here's a fun drinking game, anytime you read "tip" pretend it means very slight intercourse. Everytime it would get the poster a warning take a drink!

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT ACTUALLY DO THIS YOU WILL DIE.

It really depends on where you're from. Where I live, people don't depend on tips to make a living (enforced minimum wage FTW!). My tips for competent service are generally just a generous rounding. Only good service gets a proper tip (screw percentages, I'll decide for myself what is reasonable).

When I'm in a foreign country and not accustomed to local tipping customs, maybe I come across as a dick, but then again, I wouldn't be if the country had proper wages legislation. I refuse to be guilted into giving tips to people just doing their jobs.

It seems to me that refusing to do something purely because the government's at fault for it being necessary is a load of shit. If waitresses need your tip to feed themselves then you bloody well tip, it doesn't matter if they're "just doing their job" OR if the government should make new laws, the point is that it DOESN'T and they DO. And honestly you're not refusing to tip because you want to make a political statement, you just don't want to.

But in countries where waitresses make minimum wage in some restaurants the manager pretty much just takes the tip (just take the tip, just for a second, just to see how it feeeeels) and honestly if you make minimum wage, fuck you I've worked in worse jobs for minimum wage and I didn't get a tip.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Wow, this topic has gone into a 9-page debate... Time to add my 2 cents!


If no-one has mentioned this already it needs to be mentioned and it bears repeating anyway.

TIPS literally translates into: To.Insure.Proper.Service

Wrong. I won't address the rest of your post, as most of it is opinionated and/or disproven on other posts. However, tips does not stand for what you said it does. Snopes to the rescue [http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp]!

Also, just because other minimum wage jobs don't get tips doesn't mean that people who don't even get paid minimum wage shouldn't get tipped just because you don't think they are worth it. I'm not a huge fan of tipping myself, but with the American culture the way it is, it is a bit of a necessary evil. Until that changes, I just have to deal with it, or try to ignore the fact that I am participating in the screwing over of wait staff for my own beliefs.

 

[Depulcator]

I never tip and never will. And as for the whole "we remember" thing. Turnover is high enough were that will never be a factor.

 

[Someone Depressing]

In the UK, tipping is more of a form of politeness, or complimenting them. It's not a big deal here. That, and most waitresses, especially at Chinese restaurants or chippies (places that sell burgers, smoked food, ice cream, ect. Oh, and chips) really get a crappy paycheck. So people do it to be helpful, or out of sympathy.

 

[DjinnFor]

Does anyone else find this tipping culture strange and weird, why do we have to give a tip 5-10% of our restaurant bill every time we have a meal even if the service is okay/competent.

I get why a person would tip if they find the waitress/waiter has been really good, but why would we give a tip for okay/competent service. It just seems like serving staff being uppity and entitled. Why should serving staff expect a tip from every single customer and expect a percentage of the bill, isn't it meant to be a voluntary thing, not some compulsory charge for the consumer.

In some cultures it is. In the U.S., it isn't. Waiters/Waitresses are allowed to be paid (and will be paid) less than minimum wage, as it is assumed that they make up the difference via tips.

In some areas, servers are assumed to receive 10% of the bill as tips, and taxed on that basis, whether they actually get the tip or not.

 

[immortalfrieza]

It seems to me that refusing to do something purely because the government's at fault for it being necessary is a load of shit. If waitresses need your tip to feed themselves then you bloody well tip, it doesn't matter if they're "just doing their job" OR if the government should make new laws, the point is that it DOESN'T and they DO. And honestly you're not refusing to tip because you want to make a political statement, you just don't want to.

But in countries where waitresses make minimum wage in some restaurants the manager pretty much just takes the tip (just take the tip, just for a second, just to see how it feeeeels) and honestly if you make minimum wage, fuck you I've worked in worse jobs for minimum wage and I didn't get a tip.

Do you tip your mechanic just for doing their job?
Do you tip the cashier or the one who hands you your food at McDonald's just for doing their job?
Do you tip some random stocker at the supermarket just for doing their job?
More to the point, do you tip people in any other jobs but serving? Do you know anyone who does?
Are you considered a dick if you don't tip these people just for doing their jobs?

If the answer is anything but "no" I'd be surprised. Fact is, most if not all people don't tip people in any other job just for doing what's in their job description but serving, but for some ridiculous reason it's somehow wrong to refuse to tip servers. People can come up with any B.S. reason they feel like to justify this tip happy culture of ours, but it's still B.S. regardless. The fact that servers in plenty of other countries can get along just fine without tips and in some are supposed to outright refuse tips if offered is proof of that.

You're a dick if you don't tip servers? The only reason anyone cares to begin with is because our society says tipping is good and not tipping is bad. Society has in the past and even now says to do things that are total B.S. all throughout human history. For instance, society also said it was a good idea to enslave people and swing them from trees when they refused, and that's just one of many examples of the fact that SOCIETY ISN'T ALWAYS RIGHT!

The servers can't live off the crappy below minimum wage if their customers don't tip them? How is that mine or anyone else's responsibility to cover the wages of these people? Those servers have nobody else to blame but themselves for the fact that they aren't able to live off their wages. The servers let their wages get that bad to begin with and since then have just sat on their rear ends and did nothing to change that fact. The fact that practically everybody tips only makes sure that they never will get off their rear ends too, it's harming these people as much as it's helping, if not more.

Serving is a grueling, demeaning job? Yeah, and? There are plenty of grueling demeaning jobs that are just as bad or even worse than serving, and people don't get tips for those and servers shouldn't either.

Tips aren't mandatory and shouldn't be treated like they are, and nobody is a dick or cheap or whatever for refusing to tip, they just realize what a load of B.S. the whole tipping culture is.

 

[DarkRyter]

Do you tip your mechanic just for doing their job?
Do you tip the cashier or the one who hands you your food at McDonald's just for doing their job?
Do you tip some random stocker at the supermarket just for doing their job?
More to the point, do you tip people in any other jobs but serving? Do you know anyone who does?
Are you considered a dick if you don't tip these people just for doing their jobs?

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective.

You do tip your mechanic. It's called paying your mechanic. In America, when an individual does work for you, they are compensated. in the American view, the waiter is the employee of the patron, not the restaurant.

That's why it's considered wrong to not tip American servers. Because you didn't pay for services rendered. It's equivalent to hiring a plumber to fix your shower and then kicking them out.

EDIT

To the poster above me. I don't think the, if you don't tip your a dick, comment was pointed at anyone and everyone. It was pointed towards those of us in American, where certain jobs are payed mainly on tips. In American it's a part of the service, and culturally expected. You don't have to do it, but you are being a bit of a dick for not doing it. In other places you'd find the waiter's pay in the price of the food, but it's not the case in America. Sure don't tip, also if your not going to tip, don't eat at dine in places in America.

Thank you for your understanding. You are an oasis in a sea of ignorance.

 

[immortalfrieza]

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective.

You do tip your mechanic. It's called paying your mechanic. In America, when an individual does work for you, they are compensated. in the American view, the waiter is the employee of the patron, not the restaurant.

Wrong. When I go to a restaurant and pay the bill for the food, I'm paying for the food and the labor of the cooks and the servers all in one. A server is an employee of the establishment they work at, just as a mechanic is the employee of the car dealership they work at, the cashier is the employee of the McDonald's, Supermarket, etc. they work at. A server does not work for the customer, they work for their employer, and that work includes making sure the customer is satisfied to any reasonable degree. Their job is to take the customer's order, bring them their food, make sure the meal is done the way I want it, and acting kind and courteous, and that's just the restaurant servers, that not even getting into delivery or hotels or anything like that. The employer should be the one paying them the wages they need to live off of, not the patron. If this were not true, then any random patron would be able to fire any random server or refuse to pay anything or whatever just to be an ass or something like that, the kinda things an actual BOSS would be able to do, but they can't. Sure, the patron can complain to the server's boss and maybe get them fired or whatever that way, but they have no actual power to ensure that server gets fired or whatever.

That's why it's considered wrong to not tip American servers. Because you didn't pay for services rendered. It's equivalent to hiring a plumber to fix your shower and then kicking them out.

No, tipping a server and it being wrong not to is like hiring a plumber to fix your shower, paying them parts and labor costs, then being expected to give them MORE money despite the fact that they didn't do a DAMN thing more than their job required of them to deserve it. All just because it's a common courtesy, and if you don't give the plumber extra you're considered a dick for doing so and the plumber might screw you over next time or even go ballistic now even though you've paid that person their due and probably more than that already.

Tipping just because is, has, and always will be nothing more than one of those ridiculous things that everybody does because they've been conditioned probably from birth to do it by society. Like many of those things it doesn't matter how little sense it makes, people do it anyway, often without even realizing that it doesn't make sense. Worse, even if they do realize it's a load of B.S. they relentlessly defend it anyway because they are too stubborn to admit it.

 

[GundamSentinel]

OT: Here's a fun drinking game, anytime you read "tip" pretend it means very slight intercourse. Everytime it would get the poster a warning take a drink!

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT ACTUALLY DO THIS YOU WILL DIE.

It really depends on where you're from. Where I live, people don't depend on tips to make a living (enforced minimum wage FTW!). My tips for competent service are generally just a generous rounding. Only good service gets a proper tip (screw percentages, I'll decide for myself what is reasonable).

When I'm in a foreign country and not accustomed to local tipping customs, maybe I come across as a dick, but then again, I wouldn't be if the country had proper wages legislation. I refuse to be guilted into giving tips to people just doing their jobs.

It seems to me that refusing to do something purely because the government's at fault for it being necessary is a load of shit. If waitresses need your tip to feed themselves then you bloody well tip, it doesn't matter if they're "just doing their job" OR if the government should make new laws, the point is that it DOESN'T and they DO. And honestly you're not refusing to tip because you want to make a political statement, you just don't want to.

But in countries where waitresses make minimum wage in some restaurants the manager pretty much just takes the tip (just take the tip, just for a second, just to see how it feeeeels) and honestly if you make minimum wage, fuck you I've worked in worse jobs for minimum wage and I didn't get a tip.

Let me get this straight: my primary thought about any job is, if you're doing your job, you ought to get paid properly for it. If your payment depends on people's generosity, that's just wrong. You'd basically be a part-time beggar. In most western countries there is something like a minimum wage that you ought to get for your work. And as other people have said, even from countries with a strong tipping culture, if you don't get enough from tips, your boss should cover the rest until you hit minimum wage.

If that isn't the case, there's something wrong with your job and you should indeed blame your government (or your boss) for not properly enforcing policy. Or do something about it yourselves. I've seen a number of businesses in different countries (particularly Italy) use a service fee instead of relying on tips. The customer pays a fixed fee on top of their bill to make sure they get minimum wage without relying on tips. If you ask me, that's a fine system, and if the service is good, I give tips on top of that. If I have to pay a fee for service, fine. But I reserve tipping as a reward for good service, not as some ridiculous guilt mechanic just because a business wants to pretend competitive pricing.

And indeed, being a waiter isn't the only shitty underpaid job. People shouldn't complain if they get minimum wage.

 

[DarkRyter]

Wrong. When I go to a restaurant and pay the bill for the food, I'm paying for the food and the labor of the cooks and the servers all in one.

No, you aren't (unless you're not an American). That's what I'm trying to tell you. You are the one who is wrong.

The employer should be the one paying them the wages they need to live off of, not the patron. If this were not true, then any random patron would be able to fire any random server or refuse to pay anything or whatever just to be an ass or something like that, the kinda things an actual BOSS would be able to do, but they can't. Sure, the patron can complain to the server's boss and maybe get them fired or whatever that way, but they have no actual power to ensure that server gets fired or whatever.

Patrons are entirely within their power to fire their server. It's called requesting a different server. Or just leaving the restaurant. People refuse to pay for things all the damn time.

Ugh, We're never gonna resolve this. We can't get over this one chasm in our arguments.

Me: When you tip, you are paying your server for their service.

You: You pay your server for their service when you pay the bill. A tip is culturally enforced bonus.

Both of us: The thing I am saying is a fact.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

How is that mine or anyone else's responsibility to cover the wages of these people? Those servers have nobody else to blame but themselves for the fact that they aren't able to live off their wages. The servers let their wages get that bad to begin with and since then have just sat on their rear ends and did nothing to change that fact. The fact that practically everybody tips only makes sure that they never will get off their rear ends too, it's harming these people as much as it's helping, if not more.

"Those servers have nobody else to blame but themselves for the fact that they aren't able to live off their wages." Well yeah, except you know, the people who are ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE.

Really? Twenty year olds who couldn't even have influenced any sort of policy when these laws were made (because they were pre teens) are at fault for the economic system of their country. People without any experience or time or idea about how to even go about it (and you don't either btw) should risk their jobs and in the current economy to fix this system. If there's anything at all wrong with your job it's your fault, and it's your job to fix, and if I force myself to work within it I'm aiding the system?

Ok. If you genuinely believe that then Ok. I completely disagree with you but hey, not really a point to the argument.

Serving is a grueling, demeaning job? Yeah, and? There are plenty of grueling demeaning jobs that are just as bad or even worse than serving, and people don't get tips for those and servers shouldn't either.

Yes, thank you wise internet person, than you for explaining what I already said.