This has been my issue with LARPs as well. Many LARPs involve magic that's nothing more than announcing an attack and throwing a packet of birdseed at a person. It's so lame. Magic should be otherworldly stygian powers, not 'lightning bolt, lightning bolt'.
I Hate Magic
- Thread starter Robert Rath
- Start date
I think that treating it as a mechanic is precisely the issue he sees; people expect supernatural abilities without cost. And Torchlight would be a perfect sort of game to build a different understanding of magic in; when you delve into the randomized dungeons, you have the possibility of finding magical artefacts and weapons, but they might only work if you do certain things (spend a bunch of money at the altar as a sacrifice to the gods, only wield that sword because it's jealous, etc.)Falterfire said:
OT: I am a tabletop RPG player, and I love magic that comes at true cost. Like Falseprophet said, there's been a shift into making it a mechanical system where you just plug in the correct amount of gold and time to cast it. I prefer games like Dungeon World, where messing with magic is serious business; you can do great things, but you also might rip a hole in reality, draw attention to yourself from extraplanar forces, or have to sacrifice something of real value to do it.
And for the people saying Dragon Age is good magic, it really isn't. The WORLD has a good magical system, the PLAYER is home free. There is no cost to being a full-on blood mage as opposed to a regular mage, not mechanically and not narratively. Sure, other people (including members of the party) might be in danger of demonic possession, but you know that you are not, and it robs the game of a lot of the weight of that decision.
Along those ideas, consider something like the magic in Arx Fatalis -- which while generally used for throwing fireballs and such had some interesting implications if it were to be expanded on.
It had a series of runes the player learned, along with being given certain combinations of runes as formula to produce certain spell effects. That was all it had to be if you didn't try to understand it. The thing was that each rune had a meaning, and with a bit of experimentation and logic you could create spells you'd never seen a formula for by simply writing what you wanted in the runes -- a good example is in the first three runes you got.
They teach you that two in a certain order is a spell that will let you light torches, and tacking the third on the end will let you throw a fireball. Clearly, one of the two in the torch-lighting spell must mean "fire". What happens if you leave "fire" out of the fireball spell? You get a magical projectile. By the time you've got a dozen runes and a few minutes to experiment, you can pull off a bunch of spells for which you will never be directly given a formula -- you just have to grasp the underlying theory.
For another example, there's a TCG coming out soon called Serpent's Tongue. It releases in June, and is doing preorders right now (it also had a Kickstarter about a year ago). It features the rather standard motif of dueling wizards. However, instead of a deck, each player has a spell book which houses their cards (no more than 33 spells for both balance and numerological reasons), and successfully playing a card requires an according incantation in a constructed language created for the game, with some cards having multiple versions of differing power and complexity. At least one playtest version of the rules also mandated somatic components (ranging from single hand seals to gestures) for certain cards, but I don't know the status of those in the final incarnation of the game. It also includes ARG and community building elements where the standard spellbook itself contains ARG clues for those who choose to actually study it and player cabals and master-apprentice relationships on their website provide benefits for all involved based on the accomplishments of any involved. There's also a PnP style cooperative campaign included with the KS sets that will allegedly be made available in general later on but isn't part of preorder or retail kits to reduce cost.
It had a series of runes the player learned, along with being given certain combinations of runes as formula to produce certain spell effects. That was all it had to be if you didn't try to understand it. The thing was that each rune had a meaning, and with a bit of experimentation and logic you could create spells you'd never seen a formula for by simply writing what you wanted in the runes -- a good example is in the first three runes you got.
They teach you that two in a certain order is a spell that will let you light torches, and tacking the third on the end will let you throw a fireball. Clearly, one of the two in the torch-lighting spell must mean "fire". What happens if you leave "fire" out of the fireball spell? You get a magical projectile. By the time you've got a dozen runes and a few minutes to experiment, you can pull off a bunch of spells for which you will never be directly given a formula -- you just have to grasp the underlying theory.
For another example, there's a TCG coming out soon called Serpent's Tongue. It releases in June, and is doing preorders right now (it also had a Kickstarter about a year ago). It features the rather standard motif of dueling wizards. However, instead of a deck, each player has a spell book which houses their cards (no more than 33 spells for both balance and numerological reasons), and successfully playing a card requires an according incantation in a constructed language created for the game, with some cards having multiple versions of differing power and complexity. At least one playtest version of the rules also mandated somatic components (ranging from single hand seals to gestures) for certain cards, but I don't know the status of those in the final incarnation of the game. It also includes ARG and community building elements where the standard spellbook itself contains ARG clues for those who choose to actually study it and player cabals and master-apprentice relationships on their website provide benefits for all involved based on the accomplishments of any involved. There's also a PnP style cooperative campaign included with the KS sets that will allegedly be made available in general later on but isn't part of preorder or retail kits to reduce cost.
Now that was a damn fine article that touched on every issue I have with magic as a gameplay mechanic.
The biggest of which being the mana bar. Being a sorcerer should make you feel like you have unlimited power, since you are afterall drawing your power from the universe. And giving me an energy bar doesn't really help with that. Instead of feeling like I'm envoking a divine or cursed force from beyond, it feels like I simply have a magic filled jerrycan strapped to my back.
I know there needs to be something in place to draw in the players strength though. And the way to do that would be to tie magic use to your health. The more powerful or more magic you use at a time, the more you risk killing or cursing yourself. And the stronger you become or more experience you have with magic, the more magic use your body will be able to withstand.
Create somekind of drowning mechanic, but for the mind. Let it be like a drug that alters your body and mind the more you use it. This not only draws in the players strength, but also presents magic as something forbidden and greater than you.
The biggest of which being the mana bar. Being a sorcerer should make you feel like you have unlimited power, since you are afterall drawing your power from the universe. And giving me an energy bar doesn't really help with that. Instead of feeling like I'm envoking a divine or cursed force from beyond, it feels like I simply have a magic filled jerrycan strapped to my back.
I know there needs to be something in place to draw in the players strength though. And the way to do that would be to tie magic use to your health. The more powerful or more magic you use at a time, the more you risk killing or cursing yourself. And the stronger you become or more experience you have with magic, the more magic use your body will be able to withstand.
Create somekind of drowning mechanic, but for the mind. Let it be like a drug that alters your body and mind the more you use it. This not only draws in the players strength, but also presents magic as something forbidden and greater than you.
Like Ars Magica?Falseprophet said:
Always remember that irritatingly limiting restriction -- the Limit of the Lunar Sphere. If you can't see why "Magic can effect nothing farther away than the moon" is terribly restrictive then you aren't trying hard enough.
Mage also did it pretty well, and even Shadowrun I think did a better job than D&D at keeping magic feeling mysterious and occult.
Oh, I definitely understand what he's suggesting, I'm saying that not all games need it. You have a limited amount of space in a game to deliver exposition, worldbuilding, character development, and so on. In most games it's not going to be worth using a sizeable chunk of that on the Magic system. In most games, the specifics of why the Magic works are as unimportant as knowing how the tech behind the laser guns works is in SciFi games.Thunderous Cacophony said:
Magic isn't real. It doesn't 'work' at all, so saying that it should conform to some sort of requirement (Being rare, requiring hand gestures, etc) seems silly. You can do all that if you want, and it would be interesting to build a game around a complex magic system and deal with its origins and whatnot, but I don't see a reason to expect that to be the norm.
I would love that man. I don't dislike magic how it is handled, but I realize now that I always played with the sacrifice in mind. In D&D I play the warlock that loses his mind to the stars, in dragon age I steered clear of the blood magic because of the terrible risk it was, despite there being no chance of a demon invading the player character and making an early game over scene (which would have been cool as fuck, by the way).
I liked the article, I too have wanted to see more magic done this way. The only game I've ever played where magic was arcane and obscure like that was Ultima VIII: Pagan and I loved it.
The quest in Pagan was entirely about learning the four schools of elemental magic, and they each had distinct casting methods. It's been a long time since I played it, but I remember earth magic was cast by putting components into a bag, closing it, maybe saying some magic words, and when you opened the bag you'd have a token that could be used to do something like summon a zombie (earth school was necromancy).
The fire magic was especially complex, you'd place components like sulfur and candles at specific locations around the points of a pentagram on the floor and an item to be enchanted in the center. When it was all done you'd have charged up a wand to cast fireballs, or a medallion to summon demons (who if I'm remembering correctly were just as likely to kill you as your enemies).
The quest in Pagan was entirely about learning the four schools of elemental magic, and they each had distinct casting methods. It's been a long time since I played it, but I remember earth magic was cast by putting components into a bag, closing it, maybe saying some magic words, and when you opened the bag you'd have a token that could be used to do something like summon a zombie (earth school was necromancy).
The fire magic was especially complex, you'd place components like sulfur and candles at specific locations around the points of a pentagram on the floor and an item to be enchanted in the center. When it was all done you'd have charged up a wand to cast fireballs, or a medallion to summon demons (who if I'm remembering correctly were just as likely to kill you as your enemies).
Great article! On the RPG front I have to throw my two cents in for White Wolf's Mage: The Ascension*. It reached for - though I don't think necessarily attained - a lot of the things you identify. I remember it fondly because instead of D&D's rigid spells Mage set various vague limits on what could be done within a school and let players have at it. When checks botched, it was the GM's chance to describe the repercussions. There was a lower risk if you could describe the magic as manifesting through a coincidence.
* Um. The first edition. Because I'm old and have no idea what you whippersnappers are playing these days.
* Um. The first edition. Because I'm old and have no idea what you whippersnappers are playing these days.
Well, that title is severely misleading. I mean, sure, it's effective at drawing people in, but it's a cheap ploy. On the other hand, what I did like about this article is that it's just another confirmation that Piranha Bytes makes better games than Bethesda. I think Gothic 2 and Risen are the best examples. They've really got that whole: fighting-tooth-and-nail-to-use-magic thing locked down (then again, you need to fight tooth and nail for anything in those games).
Also, they do a good job of connecting it to spirituality/religion. In both games you actually need to go into the monastery and serve the [insert god of light] and study scripture before you're able to use anything really powerful. Come to think of it, Risen 2 has pretty good magic as well. At least the voodoo angle fits in very well with the pirate theme and it's something original to games.
Also, they do a good job of connecting it to spirituality/religion. In both games you actually need to go into the monastery and serve the [insert god of light] and study scripture before you're able to use anything really powerful. Come to think of it, Risen 2 has pretty good magic as well. At least the voodoo angle fits in very well with the pirate theme and it's something original to games.
See above.Ilikemilkshake said:
Magic coming at a cost is a great idea but this should be something that's done more in lore and less in mechanics. My big problem with magic is using it not feeling special, if anyone remembers NOX, the game would show hand signs and you would hear a character mumble magic words when casting a spell, that was awesome and practical since there were only a couple of each that were combined in different ways. Which is also an idea I like, not learning spells but gestures and words that you combine to spells (by experimenting) and the effects differ based on which god you pray to and that kinda thing.
And yes, hearing your mage say the same spells over and over is annoying BUT you could just have him mumble the magic words under his breath and only say the really powerful spells out loud, the ones you rarely get to use.
But magic being inherently evil is stupid, both in a gameplay kind of sense and overall.
And skyrim really has a bad system, both mechanically in terms of being awesome and rare
And yes, hearing your mage say the same spells over and over is annoying BUT you could just have him mumble the magic words under his breath and only say the really powerful spells out loud, the ones you rarely get to use.
But magic being inherently evil is stupid, both in a gameplay kind of sense and overall.
And skyrim really has a bad system, both mechanically in terms of being awesome and rare
Sacrificing?
Well, I think you'd like Overlord's magic system then.
You slowly regenerate the amount of magic you're holding, but you can sacrifice the lives of your minions to get it more quickly.
The enchanting of weapons and armour also requires you to sacrifice the lives of your minions.
And that could go up to the thousands for the better pieces.
Still, I often enjoy just burning someone's face off with a fireball.
Well, I think you'd like Overlord's magic system then.
You slowly regenerate the amount of magic you're holding, but you can sacrifice the lives of your minions to get it more quickly.
The enchanting of weapons and armour also requires you to sacrifice the lives of your minions.
And that could go up to the thousands for the better pieces.
Still, I often enjoy just burning someone's face off with a fireball.
I have to agree. It is kinda boring when magic just gets reduced to a series of attacks or buffs to use in combat. Trouble is, when it comes to video games, the limitations of programing mean that if you're going to make really unique magic systems, you've got to base the entire game around it, because the spells become extremely complex in their execution and sometimes pretty limited in their usage. Not that this is a bad thing; you could make some really fun games based entirely on how you manipulate a magic system, but it takes a lot of time and effort and it would be specialized to the point that it would scare away most publishers from spending money on making such a game.
Any independent game makers want to try and take up the call?
Any independent game makers want to try and take up the call?
This is some great timing on my part. I'm planing to write my first short story in a fantasy universe with similar aspect as you would like to see in more games. It's all still in pre-production mode, but the mages in this universes are a "host" to a demon or spirit, which are the source of their powers. Plus, the magic spells they cast are untraditional, like changing the density of objects, and...that's all i've thought up so far. But i must say, this article has the potential to inspire me to flesh out my ideas.
I am trying to think of any game I have played where magic was.. deep, meaningful, impacting.. and I am drawing a complete blank. Magic is just another weapon, your mana bar an ammunition meter, spells just a more colourful form of explosives and bullets.
I would almost say in most fantasy novels as well, magic is too convenient. Exceptions that come to mind are The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, and The Obsidian Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey and James Mallory.
In truth, I havn't given this topic much consideration. However, my reaction to the thought of a system more immersive, significant, and indepth is quite positively powerful.
Picture this if you will: instead of storming a castle courtyard filled with guards, flinging fireballs and draining mana, one could find a dark corner and make a small fire, sacrifice some blood to turn the flames a deep vengeful red, mutter an incantation to cause it to become a wall of fire, then roll it across the courtyard, engulfing guards as it went. Of course, such a spell would be incredibly powerful. What is its power source? What did you do acheive it? What level of mastery does it signify? The world building, character development, game play interaction opportunities are staggering.
I want this in a game now.
Edit for spelling. Also, on a personal level, this is the most interesting and thought out article you have written yet. All have them have been stellar, but this touched something..
I would almost say in most fantasy novels as well, magic is too convenient. Exceptions that come to mind are The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher, and The Obsidian Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey and James Mallory.
In truth, I havn't given this topic much consideration. However, my reaction to the thought of a system more immersive, significant, and indepth is quite positively powerful.
Picture this if you will: instead of storming a castle courtyard filled with guards, flinging fireballs and draining mana, one could find a dark corner and make a small fire, sacrifice some blood to turn the flames a deep vengeful red, mutter an incantation to cause it to become a wall of fire, then roll it across the courtyard, engulfing guards as it went. Of course, such a spell would be incredibly powerful. What is its power source? What did you do acheive it? What level of mastery does it signify? The world building, character development, game play interaction opportunities are staggering.
I want this in a game now.
Edit for spelling. Also, on a personal level, this is the most interesting and thought out article you have written yet. All have them have been stellar, but this touched something..
Magic the Gathering pretty much does this with the colour system, a Pyromancer (i.e. red player) will be able to cast their fire spells (i.e. red spells) more effectively when in a mountainous/volcanic area (i.e. with lands that produce red mana...I love red decks...Robert Rath said:
)
I wouldn't say the exacution wasn't "terribly great" I'd go for "it was terrible". There is all this lore about the magic, and yet in game it's (figuratively) snapping your fingers and flashy stuff happening. There isn't any addictive property to Lyrium (sp?) potions, there isn't any downsides to using magic, there isn't any downside to using blood magic, either. Heck, nobody objects to you doing it - not even Wynne or umm whatever that templar guy was called, or even your comrades you steal lifeforce from. And you can even make Wynne a blood mage and she's like "K, cool, whatever". No, wait, she doesn't even react.Ilikemilkshake said:
Anyway, there were some games I feel did cool stuff with magic - I'd like to recommend them to anybody wanting to have a look:
- TES: Daggerfall - if you're making a custom character, you can choose different advantages and disadvantages - among them are two that make you less capable or completely incapable of casting spells under sunlight or alternatively, in the dark (they reduce the magicka pool, going as far to draining it completely under heavy light/total darkness)
- Arcanum has a similar idea when picking background but it takes it further - there are variety of mage types not just night/day ones. Although they usually get bonus when "at their territory" and a penalty otherwise. But there are nature mages (bonus in nature areas, penalty in towns), Sky mage (outdoors/indoors). And there is a background which is a demon pact - you get a bonus to magic, but you can never be good (the karma meter is capped at -20 on a -100 to 100 scale) and people hate you more. There are also some more to do with magic - there is the Magic Allergy background which makes your character unable to use magical items at all. Also, Arcanum does a good conflict between magic and technology - a person who is good at magic will tend to cause technology to malfunction - technological gadgets may even plain not work for mages, depending on how poweful they are. Conversely, technology tends to disrupt magic - launching a fire bolt at a person wearing many technological trinkets may end up with the spell fizzling out. Also, that means that you cannot heal engineers effectively using magic (potions, spells), while they cannot heal mages using tech (medical cures).
- Arx Fatalis did a cool spellcasting thing - you have to draw runes on the screen. Simple spells require only one or two runes, more complex spells have more. You can memorise some for fast casting but only a few - character with a high spellcasting stat (I think Intelligence) can memorise more and more complex spells, while mundane characters are limited to only a rune or two making them able to only fast cast stuff like "ignite torch".
- Magicka - this game is so cool. The first that makes magick feel magick-y. Well, arguably Arx Fatalis also does a similar job but Magicka pulls it off better, IMO, so shut up. You have 8 elements (earth/fire/water/lightning/healing/arcane/cold/protection) which you can freely combine into spells and the different combinations work. Sometimes hilariously so. but don't try and combine opposing elements - fire cancels cold, for example and vice versa, however, combining fire and water gives you steam which can further expand your arsenal. Furthermore, you have few choices how to employ spells - you can launch them at enemies, cast them around yourself, or cast them on yourself (healing is good, but fire not so much), or enchant your weapon with them. fun and flexible. But aside from just messing around, with combinations, there are actual spells you can learn and do that break away from the basic elements - these include haste, calling rain, slowing time, rising zombies, etc. But my favourite must be "Crash to desktop" - kills a random creature on the screen, maybe even you, with a blue screen of death and a 56K modem sound. Which brings me to another point - magic is dangerous! It's powerful - you can easily mow down enemies but it's also not safe - it's not "point and stuff dies", it's very easy to murderise yourself or your buddy. It's hilarious to see multiple magicks flying around and wreaking havoc, even more so if there is an enemy mage around - the battles could either be prolonged and matching magical prowess, or they could end quite abruptly by one (or more) people just explode because, say, one was using a healing beam, while the other did an arcane one and they crossed.
And the rest of the post would be gushing about the PnP game Mage.
Right, a brief introduction for those unaware - Mage is a gameline set in the World of Darkness setting. You might know of WoD through the PC game Vampire the Masquerade - Bloodlines (and Redemption) - VtM is another gameline set in the WoD. It's...about vampires. Duh. Anyway, the WoD looks and feels like the real world - it's set in modern times and all but it has the supernatural in it, including mages, vampires and other critters. The setting (and all gamelines) were rebooted several years back and they got different subtitles (Vampire: the Requiem is the successor of Masquerade, for example) and somewhat shifted focus but at their core they stayed pretty much the same - supernatural critters do stuff.
So, there are two gamelines here - Mage: the Ascension (from the old WoD) and Mage: the Awakening (from the new WoD) both are good and I like both a lot. I feel they do magic really well for PnP games - the system is flexible, powerful and fun. What I'll be saying mostly applies to both gamelines with very small variations here and there. Using the rules you can create any and all magical effect you can imagine - fireballs, lightning bolts, levitation - those are easy. But anything you can imagine - it can happen - it doesn't need to be a boring video game-like simple effect, mages can control the weather, the thoughts, dive into a person's dreams, scry, melt stone like butter, fix a car with a wave of a hand, stop motion, or indeed, turn kinetic energy into heat and so on and so forth. Mages literally twist reality with their power until their will is done. Every time they do magic.
However, they don't rule the world even though they possess these amazing abilities and here is why - the reality doesn't really like being twisted. Due to...different factors for both gamelines (quite interesting in both cases), magic is dangerous - it bites. It's called Paradox - it's when magic goes wrong Paradox manifestations range from may just twist the spell the mage is casting (affects them instead of an enemy or the like) or make it fizzle out, to larger - the mage may be struck blind for a while or maybe they'll experience the world in fast forward, or their hair could turn white. Really bad Paradox manifestations are...really bad - normally, it's hard to hide them being anything other than supernatural - the mage's skin peeling off, them randomly mutating, or turning magnetic and so on. Larger backlashes even risk something coming to visit the mage - Ascension has Paradox spirits who are in charge of making the mage's existence nightmarish as punishment for violating the universe, while Awakening has malevolent Lovecraftian entities just itching to visit the real world.
Well, there are, in general principle, two types of magic one can employ - vulgar magic, that blatantly disregards and breaks the laws of the universe. Vulgar magic is showy and just says to the physics (and other science fields) "Fuck off for a while, Imma do some shit now" - examples include throwing fireballs, manipulating gravity, conjuring a giant hammer from behind one's back, etc. Very dangerous, and very Paradox prone, especially if ordinary mortals see it (same thing as before - different reasons but quite interesting in each case). As such, vulgar magic is not deployed often. The second type is coincidental - it's more covert and believable - while still supernatural in origin, it's "masked" to appear as if it follows the rules of the universe - instead of throwing a fireball, the mage can make a gas pipe explode, instead of blatantly breaking gravity, the mage can bend it ever so slightly, so it's just a bit harder something to randomly hit him, instead of pulling a hammer from, seemingly, hammer space, the mage can pull a small knife that could conceivably have been in their pocket. Coincidental magic is less error prone but also, more limited in what one can do.
And now, why and how does magic work? I'll go with a short explanation - there is more but it's too much:
- Ascension - the universe doesn't seem to have preset properties. Or didn't, at least - everything was possible and reality was like a taffy in the hands of people, due to the people's Avatars. An Avatar is what allows a mage to reform reality at whim. More training allows them better and stronger control. Still, at some point, due to reasons I won't go into, humanity was slowly convinced to let go of the old superstitions and take a more structured view of the universe. While mages were powerful, the collective subconsciousness of the mundane people solidified reality into the world we see today - the laws of physics were codified, as well as biology and so on. Eventually, people were made to forget magic ever existing. Still, their latent powers reshaped reality itself into rejecting blatant magic. If a mage uses a vulgar spell in front of a normal person, their instinctive subconscious reaction makes reality lash out immediately and even more harshly than it would otherwise. And this is why Paradox is - reality's unnatural wrinkles trying to smooth out themselves.
- Awalening - this one is a bit easier and shorter to explain, especially if you've played Dragon Age: Origins, since the idea is similar. In the days of old, mages were very powerful but also grew very proud as a result. They even decided to build a tower to the heavens and take them for their own. That's sort of how DA:O and MtAw both go but they diverge slightly - in DA:O God bitchlsapped the tower and the mages, the tower exploded and the mages mutated into the darkspawn, also corrupting much of the world. In MtAw, there wasn't a God...or at least he/she/it didn't do anything as drastic. Also, the mages were in Atlantis and magic itself came from the supernal realms, so they were going to become gods if they climbed up there. What happened was the mages squabbled among themselves few won and decided to take everything for themselves - these became known as the Exarchs. However, some other mages weren't really OK with that, so they went up there to kick the Exarchs' asses. However, when they fought, the tower shattered, taking out Atlantis and most magic with it. Also, separated the world from the source of magic. The Exarchs also encased the whole world into a false reality to prevent other mages from trying to bring them down. Think the Matrix, in a way, only the people aren't in pods. The mages who did oppose the Exarchs became known as the Oracles and went on to try and keep people from being swallowed from the false reality, they set up...let's call them "beacons" that act as the red pill for some people. Occasionally a mortal would be drawn to the beacon and given the option to look through the lie and catch glimpses of the real world. These become mages. However, since they still operate in a false reality, the magic is...glitchy - what would have worked in the past is now banned. Essentially, the mages are running hacks and the universe is not recognising them as legit playing. I hope the video game references made it clearer.
So yeah, that's briefly how Mage goes. But there is so much more. For example, both gamelines feature lesser mortal magic that works in a different way and doesn't risk Paradox. It's the mechanical sorcery from this very article - some limited effect that are well codified and can be enacted to get predictable results, albeit some skill is required.
So why do I like Mage? Well, easy - rich lore, very well thought out magic system, that also incorporates real life beliefs and stuff in it, as well as big diversity. Rarely do mages do stuff exactly the same way - there are a variety of paths that end the same. For example, one mage could chant in obscure language while another could draw runes, a third could wave their hands in magical gestures and they could all get the same result. And each would be right for their own. Furthermore, there are those mages that channel their power through technology - there are magical hackers and mad scientists that make death rays or anti gravity boots that wouldn't otherwise work. Those are fun as well. There is such a huge range of stuff in Mage. I love it.
So, there are two gamelines here - Mage: the Ascension (from the old WoD) and Mage: the Awakening (from the new WoD) both are good and I like both a lot. I feel they do magic really well for PnP games - the system is flexible, powerful and fun. What I'll be saying mostly applies to both gamelines with very small variations here and there. Using the rules you can create any and all magical effect you can imagine - fireballs, lightning bolts, levitation - those are easy. But anything you can imagine - it can happen - it doesn't need to be a boring video game-like simple effect, mages can control the weather, the thoughts, dive into a person's dreams, scry, melt stone like butter, fix a car with a wave of a hand, stop motion, or indeed, turn kinetic energy into heat and so on and so forth. Mages literally twist reality with their power until their will is done. Every time they do magic.
However, they don't rule the world even though they possess these amazing abilities and here is why - the reality doesn't really like being twisted. Due to...different factors for both gamelines (quite interesting in both cases), magic is dangerous - it bites. It's called Paradox - it's when magic goes wrong Paradox manifestations range from may just twist the spell the mage is casting (affects them instead of an enemy or the like) or make it fizzle out, to larger - the mage may be struck blind for a while or maybe they'll experience the world in fast forward, or their hair could turn white. Really bad Paradox manifestations are...really bad - normally, it's hard to hide them being anything other than supernatural - the mage's skin peeling off, them randomly mutating, or turning magnetic and so on. Larger backlashes even risk something coming to visit the mage - Ascension has Paradox spirits who are in charge of making the mage's existence nightmarish as punishment for violating the universe, while Awakening has malevolent Lovecraftian entities just itching to visit the real world.
Well, there are, in general principle, two types of magic one can employ - vulgar magic, that blatantly disregards and breaks the laws of the universe. Vulgar magic is showy and just says to the physics (and other science fields) "Fuck off for a while, Imma do some shit now" - examples include throwing fireballs, manipulating gravity, conjuring a giant hammer from behind one's back, etc. Very dangerous, and very Paradox prone, especially if ordinary mortals see it (same thing as before - different reasons but quite interesting in each case). As such, vulgar magic is not deployed often. The second type is coincidental - it's more covert and believable - while still supernatural in origin, it's "masked" to appear as if it follows the rules of the universe - instead of throwing a fireball, the mage can make a gas pipe explode, instead of blatantly breaking gravity, the mage can bend it ever so slightly, so it's just a bit harder something to randomly hit him, instead of pulling a hammer from, seemingly, hammer space, the mage can pull a small knife that could conceivably have been in their pocket. Coincidental magic is less error prone but also, more limited in what one can do.
And now, why and how does magic work? I'll go with a short explanation - there is more but it's too much:
- Ascension - the universe doesn't seem to have preset properties. Or didn't, at least - everything was possible and reality was like a taffy in the hands of people, due to the people's Avatars. An Avatar is what allows a mage to reform reality at whim. More training allows them better and stronger control. Still, at some point, due to reasons I won't go into, humanity was slowly convinced to let go of the old superstitions and take a more structured view of the universe. While mages were powerful, the collective subconsciousness of the mundane people solidified reality into the world we see today - the laws of physics were codified, as well as biology and so on. Eventually, people were made to forget magic ever existing. Still, their latent powers reshaped reality itself into rejecting blatant magic. If a mage uses a vulgar spell in front of a normal person, their instinctive subconscious reaction makes reality lash out immediately and even more harshly than it would otherwise. And this is why Paradox is - reality's unnatural wrinkles trying to smooth out themselves.
- Awalening - this one is a bit easier and shorter to explain, especially if you've played Dragon Age: Origins, since the idea is similar. In the days of old, mages were very powerful but also grew very proud as a result. They even decided to build a tower to the heavens and take them for their own. That's sort of how DA:O and MtAw both go but they diverge slightly - in DA:O God bitchlsapped the tower and the mages, the tower exploded and the mages mutated into the darkspawn, also corrupting much of the world. In MtAw, there wasn't a God...or at least he/she/it didn't do anything as drastic. Also, the mages were in Atlantis and magic itself came from the supernal realms, so they were going to become gods if they climbed up there. What happened was the mages squabbled among themselves few won and decided to take everything for themselves - these became known as the Exarchs. However, some other mages weren't really OK with that, so they went up there to kick the Exarchs' asses. However, when they fought, the tower shattered, taking out Atlantis and most magic with it. Also, separated the world from the source of magic. The Exarchs also encased the whole world into a false reality to prevent other mages from trying to bring them down. Think the Matrix, in a way, only the people aren't in pods. The mages who did oppose the Exarchs became known as the Oracles and went on to try and keep people from being swallowed from the false reality, they set up...let's call them "beacons" that act as the red pill for some people. Occasionally a mortal would be drawn to the beacon and given the option to look through the lie and catch glimpses of the real world. These become mages. However, since they still operate in a false reality, the magic is...glitchy - what would have worked in the past is now banned. Essentially, the mages are running hacks and the universe is not recognising them as legit playing. I hope the video game references made it clearer.
So yeah, that's briefly how Mage goes. But there is so much more. For example, both gamelines feature lesser mortal magic that works in a different way and doesn't risk Paradox. It's the mechanical sorcery from this very article - some limited effect that are well codified and can be enacted to get predictable results, albeit some skill is required.
So why do I like Mage? Well, easy - rich lore, very well thought out magic system, that also incorporates real life beliefs and stuff in it, as well as big diversity. Rarely do mages do stuff exactly the same way - there are a variety of paths that end the same. For example, one mage could chant in obscure language while another could draw runes, a third could wave their hands in magical gestures and they could all get the same result. And each would be right for their own. Furthermore, there are those mages that channel their power through technology - there are magical hackers and mad scientists that make death rays or anti gravity boots that wouldn't otherwise work. Those are fun as well. There is such a huge range of stuff in Mage. I love it.
The dresden files handles magic the way you say it should. More evidence to why it needs a game franchise.
That's very true... If the game had been ABOUT mages, like you HAD to pick a magic class, I feel the game would've been MUCH better for it. They could've spent so much more time fleshing out mechanics to fit the lore into the gameplay. Like you said the lore is incredibly rich but then none of that stuff is in the gameplay... I was basically just trying to be diplomatic when I said DA:O wasn't that great but yeah after thinking about it, it was awful.DoPo said:
Actually I feel like Bioware have a habbit of this, Biotics in Mass Effect basically get COMPLETELY ignored, when there's a reasonable chunk or lore surrounding it, it's almost as if they didn't expect anyone to pick the spacemage class.
Nehrim is the best example of magic done well, even though it was held back by the limitations of being built using Oblivion. Spells are limited to being found in dungeons or learned from special factions, as using magic is considered a serious crime. Even the mages guild treats magic harshly, violently maintaining that magical ability should not be used to rule, a view that has led to war with the strongest mages in existance - the gods.