Starik20X6 said:
captainfluoxetine said:
See I understand how frustrating it is dealing solely with extremists. Politically i lean to the left however i often find myself equally as frustrated with the hippy left as i do with the evil imperial right. So, with that in mind, I find nothing wrong with extremism in this case.
Guns for no one, I honestly don't see a flaw there. Or at least gun laws such as those in the UK, which if im honest i dont fully understand, though i know way fewer people own guns here, and as a result way fewer people become infected with a terminal case of bullets, than do in the USA.
I would argue the problem is culture. Americans seem to view having a gun as a fundamental right, in the UK its viewed as something you do if you're a farmer or a wierdo (sorry to those who will get all up in my grill, but that IS how you're viewed by the majority of society). But as a result of it being culturally frowned upon its less widely done.
Now my reason for seeing this as a factor is alcohol. The English as utterly incapable of understanding refined drinking. We hear all kinds of rubbish on the news about increasing taxes and stuff on drink to tackle binge drinking. Its not a price issue, its the fact our culture is fine with getting so wasted you vomit in your handbag, start a fight in a kebabie and then pass out in a hedge. But in countries like france the attitude to alcohol is much, MUCH, more sensible and restrained. And as a result its not abused as much as in the UK, not because of law but because of society and culture.
Point is, its not to do with the law as much as it is the culture in which the laws are enacted.
TL DR?
Well don't comment on the post then, prat.
Couldn't agree more. In my mind guns for nobody is the best solution, but as you said, it's so culturally ingrained at this point it may be inseparable. So, as much as I would like to see them gone completely, I think if anything's going to change it will have to be gradual, or it'll be met with too much resistance.
The problem being, "removed completely" means removed from people who actually follow the law. Unfortunately, as an earlier poster mentioned, the crime problem thanks to other overzealous laws brought about by knee jerk reactions have permeated our streets, jails, and even military with members of drug gangs, and propped up cartels in this hemisphere who support them. If guns are removed from all the law abiding people who would follow such laws, the only ones that would be armed are an ineffectual police force and gangs/criminals who would have open reign over the newly disarmed populace.
I live in a state where criminals have to think twice and fear for their own safety, because it's as likely as not that they'll be shot and killed in robberies/home invasions/other dastardly criminal shit. Remove that fear, and they'll have no mortal fear of breaking the law- worst case? They end up in jail with their homies for a stretch. As a law abiding citizen, I don't wan't to live under those conditions.
So to move on and offer solutions instead of arguing over the perceived problem- Here's the best I've seen yet: End the ridiculous "war on drugs" and do as a few states with the balls to butt heads with the Federal Government have in this past election, and legalize. Drugs are illegal and it's illegal to buy them, but marijuana is as ubiquitous as guns in this country, probably more so, I bet more people in the US have a dimebag in their house than a gun, so what does that say for the ability to ban something through making it illegal? Anyway, legalize- gang violence over turf to sell on, over money, those cartels, evaporate overnight. No sense spilling blood for your corner on which to sling that rock when citizens can now go buy a pack of marlboro greens or whatever at the corner store. Wham, law enforcement and prison costs reduced drastically, legal system becomes efficient now that it's not so clogged with drug related offenses, law enforcement and courts can focus on true crime instead of being completely narcocentric.
Next step: Tax it. With the ridiculous reduction in law enforcement/court/prison/correction spending and new tax base, along with job growth in a new sector, state and federal governments now have much more money to through into social programs, for the sake of this topic, to help the mentally ill and help train people how to identify people who need help.
So... do we spend hundreds of millions of dollars if not more in ineffectually banning another item, further clogging courts and jails with otherwise upstanding citizens, and cause criminals to no longer have mortal fear of committing crimes against law abiding folks, or do we roll back some asinine bans that have shown decade after decade to be causing more problems than good, and start helping people who need help, and hopefully catching them before they go off the deep end?
*wonders how many people will read past the first line or two thinking this is another pro-gunner and dismissing my post without hearing it out*
