I just uninstalled Skyrim
- Thread starter Duffeknol
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Hm. I guess I'm half way between you and being apart of the matrix; I find myself getting lost and enthralled in a game a few times throughout a playing session, even actually feeling emotions towards characters and events--Mako from The Old Republic is to die for. But other times I'm well aware that I'm playing a game, ticking boxes, changing ones and zeroes and generally interacting with mechanics.Jodah said:
Weird how the same thing can be so different in so many ways to each individual.
OT: Skyrim bored me, more than anything. I didn't find it bad or poorly written (mostly). It was just... boring. A very predictable, run-of-the-mil setting, elves, dwarves, humans, magic, dragons - everything we've been playing in RPGs for... well, since the dawn of RPGs. It's size or scope doesn't change any of that. People are quick to marvel at the scale and brand Skyrim a good game on that alone. In my eyes, spreading the same ol' bland jam over larger bread doesn't make it taste any better than it did yesterday.
Morrowind, the game they said they were leaning back towards, had giant mushrooms that scrapped the sky, ancient machines that caused marvel and wonder as they came alive before your eyes, men becoming gods, gigantic insects that you climbed up on to travel great distances, wizards crafting potions that allowed them (and the player) to fly - the list goes on and on. Morrowind was a mystical, alien world inside a disc. There was so much to see and hear. Creatures unlike any other roamed and stalked the swamps and caves. Magical potions that granted immortality and god-like powers were there for the making. It was all so surreal, and yet so immersive. It was like being transplanted onto an alien planet; you were too fascinated to leave, but you knew you were somewhere very strange and dangerous.
What do we get with Skyrim? The very definition of Western RPG clique. The main story has you talking to kings and mages and traveling a landscape littered with samey rocks, snow and empty space. Every quest is as transparent as it is emotionless. They couldn't have picked a more realistic, boring, mundane and trodden to death setting.
There's nothing breathtaking there. There's no moments, characters, events or creatures of note and nothing memorable. It's big. It's long. It's bland. Been there, seen it and done it all before.
Skyrim is to Daggerfall and Morrowind what Grand Theft Auto: IV is to Vice City and San Andreas -- a massive leap in exactly the wrong direction.
Oblivion was casual, pick up Arena and get on my level.Crono1973 said:
Seriously though, I love Oblivion and Skryim both. Hell, I've loved all the TES games for their exploration (which is the one thing that hasn't changed a ton). The only problems I had with Oblivion was a few bugs and level scaling. The only problem I had with Skryim was a few bugs. In my book, they're improving. Also, if you believe they tried to make it more mainstream, find better arguments that aren't "Critical hits now have an animation" and please explain which attributes you are talking about.
Sorry for the late response. When I got it I was too tired to make any decent arguments.
That's funny, because whenever i ask Skyrim fanboys to humor me and critisize the game, they have a very hard time coming up with criticism for it. I wonder how that can be?
And when they finally do come up with criticism for it, it's always that they wanted more of it, which isn't really criticism. It's like being asked "What do you dislike about sex" and replying "I don't think i have enough, and I'd like to have more of it".[/quote]Yeah, but as you said it's due to emotional attachment, as you said. You aren't really going to criticize your love interest compared to a stranger. Fanboys are unreasonable, so I think it's a different issue there.
I still want to know if you can compliment your least favourite game though as easily as you can criticize your favourite game. The reason you can criticize the games you enjoy is because unless a game is perfect, you will not be having any problems.
Now I will quickly turn to the OP.
The OP has done nothing but criticize the game. He offered no compliments, no solutions. You can do that with literally any game that has problems.
That's funny, because whenever i ask Skyrim fanboys to humor me and critisize the game, they have a very hard time coming up with criticism for it. I wonder how that can be?
And when they finally do come up with criticism for it, it's always that they wanted more of it, which isn't really criticism. It's like being asked "What do you dislike about sex" and replying "I don't think i have enough, and I'd like to have more of it".[/quote]Yeah, but as you said it's due to emotional attachment, as you said. You aren't really going to criticize your love interest compared to a stranger. Fanboys are unreasonable, so I think it's a different issue there.
That's a good point.
I still want to know if you can compliment your least favourite game though as easily as you can criticize your favourite game. The reason you can criticize the games you enjoy is because unless a game is perfect, you will not be having any problems.
Now I will quickly turn to the OP.
The OP has done nothing but criticize the game. He offered no compliments, no solutions. You can do that with literally any game that has problems.
I agree there is something of a double-standard at work here; and while I don't believe any work is above criticism there is something to be said about the difference between discussion/criticism, and rants (which is closer to what we actually have here).Snotnarok said:
Well, it sure explains the large degree of user-made-content for these games.Skoldpadda said:
So does a book with empty pages, or a house without furniture.
if you steal everything in two whole towns, then you have significantly more resources than you should have that early in the game, meaning more expensive, better armour and weapons, meaning that yes, you should be fighting harder enemies. it get's particularly noticeable with smithing. do you realize how easy it is to grind to 100 with that skill? and how terribly broken that would be if you didn't level with it? Hey look I'm level 4 with Legendary dragon scale armour because my level doesn't scale TROLOLOLOLOL.targren said:
And playing it the way it's supposed to be is samey? how is running around town constantly buying and selling cheap shit for hours not samey and boring? that's the only way to grind your mercantile up. Or how about going into an in, going near where someone is sleeping, and just sneaking back and forth across the room to get to 100 sneak skill. or how about putting lockpick, sneak and pickpocket to minor skills, and THEN stealing everything that's nailed down and buying yourself awesome gear, WAY above what you should have, but still be level one because combat doesn't scale with those!
If you are that upset about the game too hard for you, turn down the difficulty. everything you do in that game can help you in combat, either directly or indirectly, yeah, even alchemy. so obviously combat is going to scale with those too. also, if you don't want to be an adventurer, killing things, doing quests, solving puzzles, then skyrim is not for you. Go play some diner dash esque game if all you want to do is stay in town and play merchant.
Well good for you I suppose. Do we need to make a thread every time we remove a game from our computer?
I guess I should go make a thread talking about how I uninstalled Starcraft 2....
I guess I should go make a thread talking about how I uninstalled Starcraft 2....
Should I really have to tell you which attributes have been removed? You being such a hardcore TES player and all. Well, here they are: Strength, Endurance, Agility, Personality, Intelligence, Willpower, Speed, Luck and there were some skills removed too like athletics and acrobatics. Attributes are critical to an RPG and cutting it down to health, magic and stamina is a real shame.jboking said:
No need to explain how YOU don't want the missing attributes or skills, I have heard it before but you asked a question and I answered it. I do miss the attributes and missing skills.
Right then
There are many games on the market many that are enjoyable. There are many games that offer certain types of enjoyment. In the end you have to find out what you like.
I have NOTHING with shooters.. this means if you hand me the controller with MW3 or BF3 running..well.. I just don't get it. It isn't my type of game!
So Skyrim made you feel disconnected.. that can happen.. I have found that if you really want a good story you need to accept limitations. Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowing are OPEN world games.. this also means yeah.. choices also means not doing something.
In what some games like Bioshock or many RPG's limit your choices.. yet makes what you can do matter more.
In the end you have to find what you like. If you don't like Oblivion, Morrowing, Skyrim, then over 6 years.. you probably don't like what is then out!
There are many games on the market many that are enjoyable. There are many games that offer certain types of enjoyment. In the end you have to find out what you like.
I have NOTHING with shooters.. this means if you hand me the controller with MW3 or BF3 running..well.. I just don't get it. It isn't my type of game!
So Skyrim made you feel disconnected.. that can happen.. I have found that if you really want a good story you need to accept limitations. Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowing are OPEN world games.. this also means yeah.. choices also means not doing something.
In what some games like Bioshock or many RPG's limit your choices.. yet makes what you can do matter more.
In the end you have to find what you like. If you don't like Oblivion, Morrowing, Skyrim, then over 6 years.. you probably don't like what is then out!
if you were gonna make that thread you would hae already made it on the bnet forums, everyone else has -.-Wakikifudge said:
Most of your complaints I agree with, but think are over-exaggerated, but I seriously don't understand this. Consequence-free? The outcome of a civil war is changed based on your actions, and while I wish they had taken that farther, that's a bit better than *most* games today.Duffeknol said:
It's a pretty long post, so I'll be brief.Ragsnstitches said:
While it's true that you can always look things up in a dictionary (I'm not a walking dictionary either), people (or companies, or entities) often change the meaning of words over time, or use them differently than a dictionary states. In many cases, the dictionary often ends up eventually defining the word based on how it's used in society, and not the other way around (society adapting a word that is introduced in a dictionary).
Take in the case of standards, which we just discussed. Sure, standards might in some cases meaning an "average", but nowadays the word is also used to describe basic functionality, features or a set of described specifications/requirements that a product og piece of a product needs to adhere to. An example is the new "Ultrabooks" (thin laptops), which adheres to standards set by Intel, standards which in this case aren't a product of an average. You decided to bold/underline 'average' when you pulled up your definition. I would rather that you had bolded the word before it ('or'). Since games comes with a variety of gameplay, even within the same genre (two First Person Shooter games are still rarely the same) and appeal to different people, comparing them directly (and by that extension, trying to figure out what the 'average' gameplay is) looks like a futile effort in my eyes
In the case of reviewer versus critic, i guess it's the same. Some people like to use the dictionary, some people is going to point out that in a different language (for example, their own) there might actually be a dictionary distinction between their own version of the two words which they then carry over to english, even if the english dictionary set the two as synonyms
) - Personally, i reject the idea of using synonyms except if there are special grammatical or linguistic reasons to do so, and in most other forums I'm arguing with people, they seem to adhere to the same (unwritten) definition of the difference between a reviewer and a critic. With that said, i of course cannot fault you for it. It's just how i seperate the two. Take it or leave it As for this...
...like i said, i don't consider a critic to be a reviewer. In my eyes, the job of a critic is not to explain anything to a customer. It's to explain things to the CREATOR. The critisize his work and explain what needs changing.
Now, you obviously made a very good point by pointing out that even critique can be subjective. My response to this is to point out once again that as a critic, your critique stays the most objective by pointing out what is missing rather than what is there. Take StarCraft II for example. Some people believe StarCraft II has amazing graphics, some believe it's fairly mediocre. No matter my own opinion of that, as a critic i can still point out that the game is missing an ingame anti-aliasing setting (AA in SC2 has to be enforced through drivers, which isn't optimal). I'm not judging how much it affects the graphics, I'm simply pointing out that it's missing.
Now this can become more tricky with gameplay, but since you mentioned combat (or more specifically, "Crap Melee"), there are in fact ways to look at that in a more scientific manner. Now, whether or not combat is enjoyable is subjective, but as a critic i can still point out if the combat has, say, problems with the difficulty level. For example, if the amount of deaths or the completion time of the game is very similar between newbies and veteran gamers, that points to problems, like for example player skill not having a big impact, either because the amount of options you have in combat is too limited to make any real decisions, or because the difficulty is 'punishing' instead of 'hard'.
It's worth noting that as a critic, it's not my job to tell which of the two options (limited real decisions or punishing difficulty) that is the culprit. That is up for interpretation, and the only way to figure it out is by trial and error. Like i said, perfection doesn't exist, so i can't exactly tell which one needs tuning and in which direction and by how much. All i can do is point out that the difficulty has problems. If the game doesn't have a difficulty setting (either selected actively, or intelligently based on the players performance, a bit like the AI Director in Left 4 Dead), that's also a fault i can point out, since this objectively means that either newbies or veterans will feel left out.
Then there are the more subjective issues, which i as a critic will avoid touching. These are for example single player cheats, and whether or not they belong in a game. Some people like using cheats if they find the difficulty too much or just for giggles, but some people would perhaps use cheats but later feel that they've 'cheated' themselves on the first play-through, and regret it (and wish the game hadn't allowed them to cheat in the first place). It's an interesting debate, but as long as it's a debate, it's not appropriate critic material.
Finally...
...I'm not calling ANY opinion wrong. All opinions are right when they're presented for the right people, typically meaning people with a similar mindset (to avoid using the word "fetish" since it seemed to be inappropriate/misplaced earlier. My apologies for that btw).
There is, however, nothing wrong with noting that they're biased. Now, you shouldn't dismiss people simple because they're biased - after all, every opinion in the world is biased - but it's always worth pointing it out (especially if it's a religious debate, and you are arguing with believers. It always amuses me).
I'll never understand threads like this. It's one thing to start a topic with the goal of discussing the flaws of Skyrim. Maybe bounce around some constructive criticism with other gamers and try to come to a consensus of what the flaws are and perhaps things that could be improved / would have been cool if they did.
It's another to proudly state you've uninstalled the game and puke trollish bile all over the keyboard hoping to get a response.
So you didn't like the game and uninstalled it. Good for you?
It's another to proudly state you've uninstalled the game and puke trollish bile all over the keyboard hoping to get a response.
So you didn't like the game and uninstalled it. Good for you?
I wonder why these threads go on for that long.
This is the basic flow for these threads. I mean seriously, So you don't like [Game].Just because everyone else does, doesn't mean that their opinions matter more than yours. It's basically flame-baiting I say.
And yes, I could have referred from posting, but I guess I am too smug to do so. It's impossible to change one's mind over the internet, so everyone should stop trying to. And in the off chance it DOES work, No single person will care, because it's a random person on the internet.
And YES I didn't think Skyrim was that great, but only because reasons [ R S T] derp.
OP- I don't like [game] for reasons [a b and c]
[reply party A] I agree with Op for reasons [a and c] and also for reason [d]
[reply party B] I disagree with reasons [ A B C D ] and here's why reasons [ x y z]
[reply party C] Oh look this thread again
[reply party A] [quote party C] well I thought this thread matters for reason [ H I J and K}
[reply C] [quote party A] Well you are wrong for reasons [ N O P ]
[repost of either party]
[repost]
[complaint]
[bad troll]
[calling out a bad troll]
[repost]
[reply party A] I agree with Op for reasons [a and c] and also for reason [d]
[reply party B] I disagree with reasons [ A B C D ] and here's why reasons [ x y z]
[reply party C] Oh look this thread again
[reply party A] [quote party C] well I thought this thread matters for reason [ H I J and K}
[reply C] [quote party A] Well you are wrong for reasons [ N O P ]
[repost of either party]
[repost]
[complaint]
[bad troll]
[calling out a bad troll]
[repost]
And yes, I could have referred from posting, but I guess I am too smug to do so. It's impossible to change one's mind over the internet, so everyone should stop trying to. And in the off chance it DOES work, No single person will care, because it's a random person on the internet.
And YES I didn't think Skyrim was that great, but only because reasons [ R S T] derp.
Now I have seen this counter-argument pulled up a couple of times and I just wanted to give my own insight/opinion on your... opinion (Wauw do I know how to start a post or what? *sarcasm*)karoliso said:
So yeah, before I try and explain my sentiments on the subject; *Insert obligatory "This is just my opinion and nothing more" - post*
Now that that's out of the way; As someone who has played Dragon Age extensively (only the first one) and having loved it every bit of the way, that I don't feel to be true.(for me personally, bla bla..) While you do have a certain level of freedom to guide your character morally in Dragon Age, I feel this is much more expansive in Skyrim because of the open-world aspect. (mostly) In Dragon Age you are more constricted to the story and you don't have as much room to create a character of your own imagination and role-play accordingly.
That is probably mainly due to the fact that in Dragon Age the story is already laid before you. You know, depending on what character you create, where you came from, what your background is. Maybe not to extensive detail but in a general sense all that stuff is already there. Because Dragon Age is much more linear they can and do realize a better story (imo) because they don't have to worry about many things Skyrim does.
In Skyrim on the other hand you have no idea who your character is supposed to be and thus you have a blank slate to image your own backstory, motivations, etc. Sure, the game places that choice and task in your hands so if you aren't interested in it or don't want to have to do the work yourself it will come across more shallow. But if you want the freedom to create a character and role-play him or her with unique quirks and manners (like many people seem to enjoy) you can do so much more extensively.
Another thing is that because of Dragon Age's story based nature you have great cut scenes wherein parts of the story are told and your actions in it explained. I like that about it. But again, in Skyrim you are free to do as you please regardless of what part of the story you are playing. You are in control of your characters' reaction to everything. You can approach any quest you are on with any mindset or manner of execution you desire. And if you don't feel like doing the quest you can just fuck off into the woods to climb a mountain and fall of it. Or get attacked by another couple of dragons because you woke them from their beauty sleep. Or any other of the many options you have in the game. And yes, the story isn't as great and the quests aren't as epic as Dragon Age's. But I feel that might be in part because they cater for you choosing your own way.
*glazes over post* .. wall of text.. I do apologize. I really tried getting my point across in fewer words but I failed. Hopefully though, this gives you another insight on matters if you choose to care about it.
I can't recall why the hell I should miss athletics or acrobatics, as they almost always meant nothing to the gameplay anyway. I don't mind the removal of strength because your skill with each individual weapon type should represent your strength with that weapon. You can be a big burly man, but if you don't know how to properly use your two-handed wtfbbqsword, you still won't be effective at taking down your enemy. Personality directly relates to Speech, it is all in how you present yourself to others. Willpower can be easily related to what armor you are wearing. If you have good willpower, but you chose to wear heavy armor to fight off a lich, you will die. Intelligence directly relates to your mana and your ability with each type of magic. Endurance basically is stamina and luck was always pointless.Crono1973 said:
Here is the thing. Sure, on face, all of those attributes are removed. however, it doesn't feel that way when playing. I can still understand how strong my character is or how intelligent they are based upon how the character plays, how they use spells and weapons, how well they persuade others, etc.
Tell me, beyond just seeing a number, what have you lost from them removing certain attributes?
[small]Hint: The answer is nothing of major importance[/small]
[small]Oh, and the arena thing was a joke. Relax.[/small]