I just uninstalled Skyrim

[anian]

Bugs, bugs, bugs...yet I really like the game, now that I modded the inventory, the game is actually fun. There aren't that much bugs really, or I haven't seen that many. But some are really weird and I have no idea how they happened.

About the graphics - I dare you to make a game as big as this, so many models and textures and characters and weapons and yes textures sometimes look very old tech, but on the other hand there have been more than a dozen of times when I caught myself looking at the screen and admiring the beauty, especially the night skies.

Dragons only real trobule is that they are semiscripted so they're the buggiest I think and definetly hard to kill if you don't have a bow or strong magic bolts. Oh, and my companion sometimes annoys the hell out of me and I admit to using moveto player command to find him sometimes.

Still as much as you can find hundreds of small bugs, there are so many small nice details, from the books which sometimes have such cool tales (I've read about 10 or 20).
Not to mention I finished the main story and yet I'm still playing. I really like the game with all it's flaws. You don't like it, don't play it.

 

[DolorousEdd]

I guess your criticisms are pretty common, but they seem to be exacerbated by your "history" with the game and strong preconceptions. I don't think Skyrim's expectations were "insane", they were quite reasonable in view of the quality of the world design and several features, if it falls short, it still wouldn't be unreasonable to expect something overall better. Bethesda would just need to rearrange their priorities and give their games more "real" RPG content, or simply make sure that what there is is of better quality. It doesn't even need to severely diminish the size, just a few people who really know and care for what they're doing. But they don't feel compelled because they feel secure in their accepted niche, and even those who hate them, confirm them in their place.

 

[ntw3001]

And I feel nothing.

I'm not going to dig into the rest of the post (I haven't played Skyrim and I'm not really interested in it), but this is very melodramatic. What kind of emotional rollercoaster does one expect on uninstalling a game? I just replaced my mouse... and I feel nothing.

Aside from that, it's clearly not even true. When I uninstall games it's because I don't care about them, but it sounds like Skyrim got you pretty worked up. This seems like a rage-uninstall. I guess that would explain the anticipated cavalcade of emotions.

 

[JokerboyJordan]

For instance, the main reason Skyrim sucks for me is the sheer lack of alignment options. You are either Stormcloak or Imperial. That's it. There's no grey area, no middle road.

There's no right or wrong road either, they are both morally ambiguous factions.

 

[Spygon]

I find it funny that people have to shout they hate game *.....* because others thought it was good to prove they are cool or not a sheep or something.

etc I hate bioshock cant stand the boring machinics of the game do you know what i did didnt really mention it as it was only my opinion.Did not make a scene and let everybody enjoy the experince

I can not stand people that dont like popular games then have to make a big thing on how they dont like game *....* like they have discovered the saviour of gaming or something

 

[hooksashands]

For instance, the main reason Skyrim sucks for me is the sheer lack of alignment options. You are either Stormcloak or Imperial. That's it. There's no grey area, no middle road.

There's no right or wrong road either, they are both morally ambiguous factions.

Exactly. That forge guy at the entrance to Whiterun even asks you "Battleborn or Greymane?" like you'r talking about favorite baseball teams. If you admit you're a Stormcloak, he'll still sell you things and won't run to tell the guards. This irked me somewhat. Neither side gives you any compelling reason to join based on motives or personality. You get different equipment depending which one you're loyal to, but how are you supposed to decide this without knowing in advance? If I have to metagame, it kind of defeats the whole idea of make-believe.

 

[hooksashands]

-snip-

I like how you force your way into the conversation by pointing to how my post bothers you, then proceed to lecture me over a game you haven't even played. Know that I laughed quite loud.

Plausible? Certainly. Consistent? No. This guy is loyal to the empire. He tells you flat-out that he doesn't trust you, then proceeds to exchange friendly info and even lets you browse his shop. That's what I would call breaking immersion.

I never mentioned unavoidable death as a consequence of talking to a random NPC, not sure which hat you pulled that out of, just saying it's kind of weird that he lets you roam around in the city walls without so much as a single warning to the authorities that there might be a Stormcloak spy in their midst. As for your good and evil thing... WTF are you blathering about? When I say alignment I'm talking about a cadre, not the naughty/nice paradigm you find in games like Fable or Infamous. Hopefully now you realize this and don't feel the need to keep air-quoting the word like an asshole.

Come to think of it, reading through your post as a whole it's full of oversimplification and hyperbole. An unnecessary amount, at that. You even go so far as to try to think for me; I know what I like and don't like in a videogame. I don't need your help deciding, thanks.

And to answer your last two smarmy questions: No, I don't want games where one side is squeaky-clean while the other eats orphan flesh. Nor do I like it when I'm locked out of quests/gear/companions based on which side I choose. That seems fairly obvious. My main issue with the way the game doles out the power items is that it does so based on which side your allegiance is with, instead of how you want to build your character. My other problem is that initially, it only gives you two options. This is somewhat made up for by being able to join neutral groups like The Companions, but the overarching storyline follows the war between the imperials and the rebels, with the dragons as a placeholder. It forces you to resolve that plot as part of the main story, even though the back of the box boasts about freedom of choice.

 

[EvilRoy]

For instance, the main reason Skyrim sucks for me is the sheer lack of alignment options. You are either Stormcloak or Imperial. That's it. There's no grey area, no middle road.

There's no right or wrong road either, they are both morally ambiguous factions.

Exactly. That forge guy at the entrance to Whiterun even asks you "Battleborn or Greymane?" like you'r talking about favorite baseball teams. If you admit you're a Stormcloak, he'll still sell you things and won't run to tell the guards. This irked me somewhat. Neither side gives you any compelling reason to join based on motives or personality. You get different equipment depending which one you're loyal to, but how are you supposed to decide this without knowing in advance? If I have to metagame, it kind of defeats the whole idea of make-believe.

Um. But people don't exist in black and white, one group universally good and the other universally evil. They exist in shades of grey with a large degree of moral ambiguity.

It's entirely plausible that someone would sell weapons to the opposing faction if it meant profit for themselves. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. So long as the factions are not clearly defined as "good" or "evil", then it seems pretty logical to assume that the people should also be pretty willing to play to either side for their own benefit.

What bothers me most about this post, though, is that you complain about not being able to pick gear without you knowing in advance, yet you want NPCs to just randomly label you as friend or foe without you knowing in advance. So you want a system where talking with a particular NPC could mean death without you knowing in advance what consequences that may entail, but god forbid they wall off sets of equipment to you if you pick a faction?

In other words, it sounds to me like you don't have a clue what you actually want out of an "alignment" system. Do you really want games to consider "alignment" in a very children's-cartoon-esque setup all the time, with one side being the bastion of all virtue and one being full of murderers, thieves, and puppy-kickers? Do you want to be able to still access different portions of the game regardless of your faction, or do you want to have entire sections of the game walled off to you unless you make an alt and try the other option?

Mind, I've not actually played Skyrim so I can't be certain. But it sounds to me, as an outsider looking in, that the problem is with your indecisiveness in choosing what "alignment"-based play should and shouldn't do, rather than a failing on the game's part. Locking gear behind a certain faction choice is a pretty standard staple of alignment, honestly. Morally ambiguous NPCs who claim allegiance to one side but play both sides aren't exactly unique either.

I was actually really impressed with Skyrims different factions. I found that if you walk around and talk to people and really listen to what they have to say, you'll out alot of reasons to join and not join the same faction. At first I was willing to just say 'of course people who agree with the stormcloaks are only going to heap them with praise and piss all over the empire' but then I ran into stormcloak supporters who actively disagreed with different parts of Ulfric's system ranging from his 'immigration policy' to his motivation. Similarly there were people in promonent positions firmly supporting the empire, but asking me to do things for them that went directly against a certain treaties because they didn't agree with the whole thing.

I did eventually come to a realisation that essentially damned the empire in my eyes because of the combination of a treaties they demanded and very poor wording on behalf of a man speaking a long-ass time ago. However, in spite of that realisation I still haven't been able to get behind the stormcloaks because of Ulfrics immigration policy, and the general douchebaggery that he shares in common with every single imperial elf as well as the human general acting on behalf of the empire in skyrim.

All that said, I can understand the desire to 'game' your character if for no other reason than it can be hard to come up with the correct combination of armour, weapons and spells to suit your playstyle without advanced knowledge. I was also a little disappointed that, although I got guff from certain people about my race, no one ever actually tried to do anything about it (give me bad prices, start barfights, ect.) and similarly my established neutralness has never been attacked by devout followers of one faction or the other either by trying to press gang me or really inconvenience me in any way.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Well yeah, there's an opinion alright. Can I have your game?

Three days later, no answer. I guess I'm not getting Skyrim.

[sub][sub]Someone doesn't like Skyrim? Better go to 14 pages! XD[/sub][/sub]

 

[hooksashands]

-snip-

Yet again, you prove you don't know what you're talking about. Yet again, you defend a game you've never played. And yet again, you try to convince me I'm somehow playing it the wrong way just because I'm not enjoying it 100%. Believe me, I want to. I would love nothing more than to give Skyrim 5 stars. No, 6. But it's not gonna happen. No really, I'm sorry this hurts you so much. Here's a band-aid. Remove backing and apply gently to the wound.

I was about to go point-by-point over your next post, but realized something: You want to turn everything into an argument for no reason. What's more, you're now bringing back points I've already addressed and refuted, in Caps Lock no less.

So yea, this conversation is done. You have nothing valuable to add, nor have you experienced firsthand any of the things you're writing long-winded paragraphs about. In essence, you have failed to humble or influence my opinions at all. Good job. Hope it was worth the time spent bitching at me.

 

[DeMorquist]

Do you feel like you have accomplished something with this thread?

Bethesda already has your $60 (or Steam sale) worth of cash and a bunch more awards for it...


And the fans still love it... We get it...some people werent to big on it, after 130+ hours it starts to..."bore" but Im sure life will return when DLC hits or Creation Kit hits.


-shrug- We all dont like something....why nowadays it involves a bandwagon full of people to hate something is beyond me.

 

[hooksashands]

-snip-

Where are you getting this idea that I hate Skyrim? Either you have me confused with the creator of the thread or you follow some bizarre one-extreme-or-the-other philosophy wherein I must love something warts'n'all or simply discontinue any knowledge of its existence. This goes beyond hyperbole. It makes you look totally batshit insane.

As such, not arguing with a lunatic is hardly "caving in". With the exception of my last post, I've tackled your raving to the best of my ability. But eventually even a monk loses patience. After hearing my explanations you decided to drag out convoluted reasons for why I'm wrong, starting with how I've supposedly contradicted myself by asking the game to reflect choices I've made while handing me weapons suitable for the class I began building from the start. These two viewpoints do not contradict each other and are in fact two separate subjects. Nice try. Also, if you read EvilRoy's last comment, he more or less agrees with both of these points I brought up. And he's actually played the game, whereas you haven't. What more explanation do you require, Kitten? Do you want us to draw you a graph? Write a musical bit and convince you by song?

Don't be sorry. It's okay. Despite your nauseating approach to truth-finding, I'm sure you thought you were doing the right thing. But that doesn't change the fact that you A) have almost no idea what you're talking about and B) don't know when to quit.

Okay, let me be the... normal person. Ahem: There's nothing wrong with Skyrim and my views are merely flippant observations on what I (and EvilRoy) see as minor shortcomings in an otherwise excellent game. Satisfied?

 

[hooksashands]

-insert selection of petty insults here-

Ah yes, the insanity defense. I'm just going to ignore that part (which makes up the majority of your post) since ad hominem bores me. It's the debate tactic of elementary school students, not grown-ups, and I'd thank you to try speaking in a mature fashion if you're actually going to continue this discussion.

It's not a defense, nor an insult. You quite literally are acting bonkers. Two people have pointed out Skyrim's faults to you--one at great length--yet you still refuse to accept that your contrary assumptions are, in fact, false. Not only do you lack an essential understanding of the subject matter talked about in this thread, but you cannot entertain anyone's views beside your own. And then you slamdunk your hypocrisy by calling me an elementary student while invoking ad hominem. Fantastic.

But now I'm curious. Since you said your last post would be "the last post", I actually expected that this discussion was over. But then you felt it absolutely necessary to run back here to reply to my reply to your "last post". That tells me that you obviously also feel some instinctive need to not only insult the person you're arguing with, but you also need to have the last word in an argument. That alone tells me a lot about you as a person. But what interests me more is the sudden change of heart.

My exact wording was "This conversation is done" meaning it has reached the end of its relevancy, not "This is my last post." I haven't backpeddled, nor have I gone the other direction on any of my views. Furthermore, if you see someone responding to you as a victory in and of itself... I don't see a reason to stop referring to you as cuckoo-crazy.

What happened to the game doing a poor job at immersion? What about the factions not being adequately explained to you, is that suddenly okay now? Suddenly now you are willing to admit the game is "excellent" and that it's mostly a matter of personal taste, and you feel that these complaints of yours (which obviously riled you up enough to bring it up multiple times before I posted) are minor at best.

What happened was I shrugged and kept playing. Yea, it was disconcerting that the Stormcloaks and Imperials don't seem all that different when it boils down to it, that the blacksmith guy couldn't explain his position beyond "I'm red team, I hate blue team." But it happened. And it could happen again 50 more times in 50 more towns, but it doesn't diminish from the fun I had slaying dragons, exploring ancient underground ruins and hunting along the countryside. This isn't a contradiction or a paradox, it's called duality. It's called taking the good with the bad.

If we had a lengthy discussion about this for several posts and we just couldn't come to an agreement, that would be one thing. But you didn't last more than one post before you threw in the towel. That's not "getting impatient", that's not "there's only so much one can take" and all that silly stuff you're claiming. You aren't sticking to your convictions. See, I wouldn't mind if you and I just had fundamental disagreement on what makes a game "good", nor would I mind if we just agree to disagree on the subject of how factions should be implemented in any game (not just Skyrim). But it seems like you're just saying this bit at the end to get me off your back or something. There's really no need for that. I disagree with people all the time, but I respect them for sticking to their convictions and their own personal beliefs about gaming. Right now, you aren't doing that. And any "normal" person would be irked by that. Either you think they were problems or you don't. If you do, be prepared to explain why. If not, why bother raving about them?

There isn't a soul on these forums that will agree to debate with you for an arbitrary amount of posts (the minimum of which is determined by you) before declaring a draw. I've never seen this happen. Respecting someone's convictions and personal beliefs has nothing to do with them proving anything. I'm not obligated to prove shit to you. Whether you approve of my explanation is irrelevant. What happens if I don't get your appoval? I'll forever stand out as that one guy who couldn't convince you Skyrim has some instances of weak writing and player customization? Oh noez!

You're almost doing a 180, you've actually said that you think it's an excellent game and these points were all very minor. But here's the thing: they obviously weren't all that minor to you, or you wouldn't have bothered lecturing back and forth with the other poster in this thread. So why not actually try to explain them? I know you're trying to go for the whole "throw out insults until the other person walks away" thing here, but it isn't going to work. I take far worse verbal abuse on a fairly regular basis as part of my job, so you're really not going to get me to stop with something like that. I'm actually legitimately curious what you feel they did wrong here, and you're really not doing a good job of explaining it.

I'm doing no such thing. My opinion hasn't flip-flopped and you have had the same explanation brought to your attention multiple times, in a variety of ways. And you still don't get it, but you'd rather forgive your own inability to process the information and condemn my methods (even though I've already been perfectly understood and agreed with by EvilRoy). As the saying goes, a mentor can't teach a student who isn't willing to learn. And if you think I'm being insulting right now... Well, that's just one more thing you're wrong about.

Look, I don't think it matters what you or I think of Skyrim. Its sales figures sort of speak for themselves, so little folks like us don't particularly matter in the scheme of things.

Speak for yourself. I think I matter a whole lot when it comes to supporting the developers who made the game. I am one of those sales, and if I want to criticize what was on the disc I spent $60 for, I have every right. Just like everyone else who bought it.

Indeed, I'm all for pointing out flaws in a game, good or bad, when they are appropriate and logical. But there needs to be a proper explanation and a proper dialogue about these things. You can't just throw out the notion that it really bothered you the way the game did X and Y, and expect that to be the end of the discussion.

Actually, I can. Ben "Yazhtzee" Croshaw does this every week and gets paid for it. He doesn't need to be appropriate and logical in his reviews, nor is he required by some internet common decency law to elaborate on his jabs. In fact, if you watch his video review for Skyrim it's far less forgiving than any of the stuff I've touched upon. It's also far less cohesive.

You really should be able to explain why these things bother you, why they don't model the way the game was designed or why they don't work.

I have. Once and then again. Read below for what is now attempt #3.

I was honestly rather curious why you were so peeved about this faction/alignment system, especially since I'd never seen anyone who simultaneously complains about a lack of OOC information regarding the decisions while also complaining that the IC reasons for either selection aren't good enough (since most "normal" people, as you put it, pick one or the other and don't try to tie both of them together since that doesn't make any sense).

Here's where I try to make my case to you again (though fuck knows why I bother) that the NPCs do not have dynamic personalities. I'm not tying unrelated matters together, you're doing that. It has nothing to do with lack of OOC information. It's about subtleties that should be there but aren't. If a imperial-loyal Whiterun blacksmith tells me he hates my guts, then logic dictates that he should mark all his wares up when I try to purchase them. If the game designers wanted to be really crafty, they program his AI to narc me out to the city patrolmen, telling them I stole from his shop. That way the guards will confiscate everything I just bought and throw me in jail. I now have personal contempt for imperials, you might even say I've built a prejudice for them. This is roleplaying. My character now has a reason to work against the Empire, however quaint it might be.

And all you've really done since I pointed this out is get very, very defensive of yourself, hurl out insults, and then tail-tuck and threaten to leave the discussion to get away from the "crazy guy".

If you think I'm getting irritated by you, then you'd be right. If you think this is the lowest level I can stoop to, then you'd be wrong.

It's odd, because if you're to be believed, *I* am the one who is supposed to be playing the role of "raving lunatic" here.

Yea, imagine that.

Suddenly, it all feels like a Fox News debate....

How apt. FOX News journalists rarely have any facts or experience to back up their claims why videogames are ruining America's youth... kind of like how you've never played Skyrim and have no facts or experience to contradict anything I've said.

 

[geK0]

Well I guess nobody can say he didn't give the game a chance : \

Sounds like he's played it A LOT more than I have and I actually enjoyed the game...

 

[F4LL3N]

I have so far received 175 hours of enjoyable gameplay from it. That being said, I have little interest in finishing that character or any new characters. I've experienced all the game has to offer and I fail to see a point as to why I should continue playing it, even though I haven't finished the main questline.

For me, two words are enough to describe what it's missing. Depth, and epicness.

Even though it's extremely open, you're still forced down a fairly linear gameplay path. Why can't I be a hunter, a fugitive, or the leader of an army. Well, you can be, but it's fairly pointless as the game doesn't offer anything regarding any of these playstyles. There's simply not enough options. Regarding epicness; dragons, giants and mammoths simply aren't enough. There's a massive war going on, but it's presented as a little neibourhood tiff, as they can't fit anymore than 20 people on screen at once.

I'm still going to blame the hardware more than anything else. Although it'll be Bethseda's fault for not addressing these issues with DLC. They'll make more of the same Daedra crap rather than giving us something unique and new to play with. It'll be a new land with a few more quests I have no interest in playing rather than flyable dragons, warmodes, epic boss fights and supersayan magic attacks.