I left my girlfriend so I would never have to play another JRPG...
- Thread starter Unmitigated Hatred
- Start date
Dumping gamer girl wasn't dumb; she was cheating and did drugs. I'da left her, too.veloper said:
I applaud the time and effort you put into what is probably trolling, but there's a limit to what kind of wall of text I'm gonna read, let alone begin to quote.
And what you describe as great storytelling is actually not so much that as well implemented Mary Sue character. They cleverly trick the player into thinking that they are the Mary Sue and voilá, you have entertainment.
The logic of a Mary Sue character is that the author inserts his or her fantasy-me into a original work (though the term has grown much beyond just covering fan-fics). The problem with that is that such daydream fantasy appeals only to the author themself, while such near perfect super-fantasy-me is only annoying to anyone else.
Bioware's trick is to make the player feel like they are the author of the Mary Sue. That is not however true, since these games do not have real role play, just choices that allow very little customization regarding the character's personality (which in turn means the NPCs will rarely have a believable relationship to the character).
These games, Bioware's or otherwise, are pretty much fan-fics of themselves. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It makes often great entertainment, even if the role playing is pretty limited.
I would not, however, call the plots nothing exceptional. The perspective just happens to be clever, though it will get old in Bioware's case if they don't quickly learn to be more than just a one trick pony. You can rely on one only for so long, no matter how brilliant it is.
Also, the Mary Sueism does sometimes get too blatant too be enjoyable even if you think of the main character as an extension of you.
It's entertaining, but it could also be called cheap. Now, I'm not gonna deny that what works works, but the point I'm getting at here is that you shouldn't claim JRPGs are boring or outdated because they do not rely on the same trick to make their stories enjoyable.
Pushing all the games to be similar in narrative you do disservice for both general variation of the whole RPG genre and the RPGs that rely on that trope by making the charm of the new interactive method to wear out faster.
And it should be mentioned that I love both JRPGs, WRPGs and the Action RPG variations of both. I'm only ready to admit flaws in all of them.
Then you are judging JRPGs for not being similar to those WRPGs you are mentioning. You can't blame a donut for not being a muffin or something.Baby Tea said:
And what you describe as great storytelling is actually not so much that as well implemented Mary Sue character. They cleverly trick the player into thinking that they are the Mary Sue and voilá, you have entertainment.
The logic of a Mary Sue character is that the author inserts his or her fantasy-me into a original work (though the term has grown much beyond just covering fan-fics). The problem with that is that such daydream fantasy appeals only to the author themself, while such near perfect super-fantasy-me is only annoying to anyone else.
Bioware's trick is to make the player feel like they are the author of the Mary Sue. That is not however true, since these games do not have real role play, just choices that allow very little customization regarding the character's personality (which in turn means the NPCs will rarely have a believable relationship to the character).
These games, Bioware's or otherwise, are pretty much fan-fics of themselves. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It makes often great entertainment, even if the role playing is pretty limited.
I would not, however, call the plots nothing exceptional. The perspective just happens to be clever, though it will get old in Bioware's case if they don't quickly learn to be more than just a one trick pony. You can rely on one only for so long, no matter how brilliant it is.
Also, the Mary Sueism does sometimes get too blatant too be enjoyable even if you think of the main character as an extension of you.
It's entertaining, but it could also be called cheap. Now, I'm not gonna deny that what works works, but the point I'm getting at here is that you shouldn't claim JRPGs are boring or outdated because they do not rely on the same trick to make their stories enjoyable.
Pushing all the games to be similar in narrative you do disservice for both general variation of the whole RPG genre and the RPGs that rely on that trope by making the charm of the new interactive method to wear out faster.
And it should be mentioned that I love both JRPGs, WRPGs and the Action RPG variations of both. I'm only ready to admit flaws in all of them.
I'm not sure you realize hat one detects sarcasm from to e of voice amd body lanhauhe, smething difficult to pick up when one isn't speaking to someone else in person or at least hears thier voice. I had a feeling you where being sarcastic, seeing as how you said you had a degree every three words, but somepeople here just thought you where being a pompous ass.Unmitigated Hatred said:
I'm hoping that the repeat mention of the "Art Degree" was meant to be a running joke but either way:
i fell in love with JRPGs during Super Mario RPG Legend of the Seven Stars, and it is nice to have a format that you can come back to that feels comfortable after playing other kinds of games. As the infamous Jimmy Urine once put it "If you don't like it then don't buy it..."
I kinda like some JRPG's i like most japanese games but yeah i have to say it annoys me a little when people flame them but hell, i flame WII games and i know some people like those its just the way the net is :S
But the problem is I've never, ever, saw or experienced a story in a JRPG that made me give a crap about anything that was going on.Axeli said:
Mass Effect? Wrex was a great character! I didn't want him to die. I totally let Ashley sacrifice herself, because my and her character didn't get along at all. And I saved the council because I (My character) think they are needed for peace in the galaxy.
I could say the same about Baldur's Gate's characters and story, as well as the original Fallout.
But in every JRPG I've played, I never got emotionally invested in any characters.
They have always been either flat, or just unlikeable.
And the story lines? Ugh. Either so very shallow, or just so convoluted that the enjoyment wasn't there at all.
Look, I'm just not a fan of JRPGs. If you like 'em, and obviously others do as well, then fine.
Live and let play, I always say.
But I've tried a bunch, and I always hit the same rut: I don't care about what's happening.
Wow. If this were any other forum that wall of blather would have been followed by a wall of TLDR
I lost interest halfway through this guys post, but I admire his dedication to his meandering, belabored point.
For future reference, hatred, make your whining rants more palatable
I lost interest halfway through this guys post, but I admire his dedication to his meandering, belabored point.
For future reference, hatred, make your whining rants more palatable
Omfg....I really wish people would quit bitching about JRPGs. [HEADING=1]IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM, DON'T FUCKING PLAY THEM![/HEADING] I don't like sports games but I don't type out walls of text.
I actually took your post seriously for the first paragraph or two. Then it dwelled into more JRPG ranting.
For fuck's sake who says that RPGs MUST have freedom and exploration? NO ONE, if that is what you enjoy then JRPGs are obviously not for you, so don't criticize them for something that isn't one of their traditional elements of gameplay.
For fuck's sake who says that RPGs MUST have freedom and exploration? NO ONE, if that is what you enjoy then JRPGs are obviously not for you, so don't criticize them for something that isn't one of their traditional elements of gameplay.
Not gonna lie here: I didn't read the whole thing. Congratulations on the art degree, though. Seem pretty proud of yourself on that one.
Anywho, I'm not the biggest fan of JRPGs. I thought Final Fantasy VII was poor because you had to fight what was easily the hardest mandatory boss in the game (Demon's Gate) early on with a character that I personally never really used. (Aeris flat-out sucks. She can only do 15 damage when the rest of the characters are doing around 60 or 70.) The only other JRPGs I've really played are Dawn of Mana (dreeeeeaaaaadfuuuuuul) and Kingdom Hearts (luvved it). Oh, yeah, and Final Fantasy XII, but that one has the same problem of FF7 by dropping over-leveled enemies on you. And as for the opening, I know, right? I mean, they just expect us to follow all the weird politics and I'm just like "DWUH?" but anyways...
My experience with JRPG storytelling is that it's mostly poor, but I also find the storytelling in Anime poor (sans Death Note, I freakin' loved that), and people love that stuff. It's because Anime, like JRPGs, are fun to some people. I can understand why people like JRPGs. It's satisfying to see strategies come together (right now over me). And a writer won't know whether or not people will care about their story because it's their story, and so naturally they care. And test audiences are people too, so they will try to appease authority figures.
There, that's my two cents. To be quite honest, I came here expecting irrational decisions we made based on gaming, in which case mine would have been sitting around in the dark with people I genuinely don't like just in case somebody might pass the Guitar Hero controller to me.
Anywho, I'm not the biggest fan of JRPGs. I thought Final Fantasy VII was poor because you had to fight what was easily the hardest mandatory boss in the game (Demon's Gate) early on with a character that I personally never really used. (Aeris flat-out sucks. She can only do 15 damage when the rest of the characters are doing around 60 or 70.) The only other JRPGs I've really played are Dawn of Mana (dreeeeeaaaaadfuuuuuul) and Kingdom Hearts (luvved it). Oh, yeah, and Final Fantasy XII, but that one has the same problem of FF7 by dropping over-leveled enemies on you. And as for the opening, I know, right? I mean, they just expect us to follow all the weird politics and I'm just like "DWUH?" but anyways...
My experience with JRPG storytelling is that it's mostly poor, but I also find the storytelling in Anime poor (sans Death Note, I freakin' loved that), and people love that stuff. It's because Anime, like JRPGs, are fun to some people. I can understand why people like JRPGs. It's satisfying to see strategies come together (right now over me). And a writer won't know whether or not people will care about their story because it's their story, and so naturally they care. And test audiences are people too, so they will try to appease authority figures.
There, that's my two cents. To be quite honest, I came here expecting irrational decisions we made based on gaming, in which case mine would have been sitting around in the dark with people I genuinely don't like just in case somebody might pass the Guitar Hero controller to me.
Cool story bro...
Too many words, judgeing you by the title... FOOL (just kidding, i glanced over it)
Do you really hate Jrpgs that much... If so, i wouldn't blame the games for it. Just remember 3 simple things
1. There not out to get you
2. They can be ignored
3. If that doesn't suffice... sell your Playstation and get an xbox as the mean ol' jrpgs don't bother with it.
Ultimately it's a case of "Whatever floats your boat", If you don't like em' then don't play them, it really is that simple.
Too many words, judgeing you by the title... FOOL (just kidding, i glanced over it)
Do you really hate Jrpgs that much... If so, i wouldn't blame the games for it. Just remember 3 simple things
1. There not out to get you
2. They can be ignored
3. If that doesn't suffice... sell your Playstation and get an xbox as the mean ol' jrpgs don't bother with it.
Ultimately it's a case of "Whatever floats your boat", If you don't like em' then don't play them, it really is that simple.
Wow. So basically, "In studying Picasso and Warhol I have come to the conclusion that anyone enjoying this particular, completely unrelated phenomenon (sorry I missed the 17 paragraphs about how your minor was in literature or film) is a philistine and a caveman. So fuck off!Unmitigated Hatred said:
Also, thanx."
Did I get it right?
By the way, I've never played an RPG.
I stopped reading after the first 5 paragraphs, right about when you started talking trash about the stat sytem that role playing games are based upon, and then including Mass Effect in a short list of RPG's that don't use the stat system (tho your list only includes RPG/shooter hybrids). Can't recall too clearly on Deus Ex, but ME definitely still uses stats, even if it's not as obvious when you're in combat, you get a healthy reminder every time you level up. If the stats you choose have no effect then what are they there for? Furthermore, I would like to subject to you, that tho the stat system was put into play before we had graphics, the fact that graphics were not around has nothing to do with it. Every game needs rules, or we'd all still be running around playing cowboys and indians saying "i shot you! no you didn't! yes i did!" The stat system is the foundation for classic RPG gameplay, it still has hordes of fans, and even tho it's not my favorite system, when it's what I'm in the mood for, a good ol' strictly-ruled turn-based system can hit the spot.
Personally it just sounds to me like you want action games with RPG elements. Those are cool, typically I'd rather play one too, but I think you're off base in claiming a genre is doing something wrong because you're over it.
Personally it just sounds to me like you want action games with RPG elements. Those are cool, typically I'd rather play one too, but I think you're off base in claiming a genre is doing something wrong because you're over it.