I liked the ending to Mass Effect 3

[trooper6]

For some reason I only got two endings...did I miss something to get the third ending?

There are the following:
Destroy, Low War Assets
Destroy, Medium War Assets
Destroy, High War Assets
Control, Medium War Assets
Control, High War Assets
Synthesize, High War Assets

In order to get the third choice you have to have a high level of war assets.
War assets achieved are based on the choices you've made throughout the three games as well as in the ME3. For example, if you gave the collector base to the Illusive Man at the end of ME2, it is going to be harder to get the synthesize ending. If your choices led to the destruction of the Geth and Quorians, it is going to be harder to get the synthesize ending. If you had lots of your ME2 crew die at the end it is going to be harder to get the synthesize ending.

 

[Matt King]

"Sure, the decisions in the 3 games meant more or less nothing where the ending is concerned "
stop, stop right fucking there that was the whole point, the ending was supposed to be based on choices,

although i am currently aboard the indoctrination theory so i am reserving judgement on the ending

 

[Vuljatar]

Alot of people seem to forget that both the previous endings had very little change. In ME2 you can last minute switch alignment to change the colour of the explosions, in ME the only difference is whether the council is alive to thank you.

That's because those games had sequels planned. It's hard to write a sequel that works for multiple dramatically different endings. ME3 is the last game of the trilogy, so that is not a worry here.

 

[crudus]

No worries.

And what I do not understand about the allegory is... well all of it. I don't really see it at all.

And I kindof see where you're coming from now, although I slightly disagree. And even if I did, my response would be "if nothing you do matters, all that matters is what you do".

Spoiler: This picture. I actually didn't notice it was one picture. I thought it was two separate ones. The confusion you are experiencing is probably my fault.

Ok, the picture titled "How it ended up" replace "ME1" with "Birth", replace "ME2" with "life", and replace "ME3" with "Death". The bottom part of that picture is saying the beginning and end are always the same no matter what "variation" the middle has. This can be said for the Mass Effect series as well as life.

Spoiler: The rest

You are one of the few people I have gotten to even say "Ok, I can see your point". I have gotten a lot of "But the developers said it was about this"! None of them stopped to think "Well if my choices matter and had all of this weight and lasting effect, then why do I become just another bedtime story equivalent to The Iliad"[footnote]Actually after thinking about it for a few minutes, that is the perfect story for this comparison.[/footnote]? It almost implies that people even doubted it happened or at least think some/most parts are greatly exaggerated.

 

[Zen Toombs]

No worries.

And what I do not understand about the allegory is... well all of it. I don't really see it at all.

And I kindof see where you're coming from now, although I slightly disagree. And even if I did, my response would be "if nothing you do matters, all that matters is what you do".

Spoiler: This picture. I actually didn't notice it was one picture. I thought it was two separate ones. The confusion you are experiencing is probably my fault.

Ok, the picture titled "How it ended up" replace "ME1" with "Birth", replace "ME2" with "life", and replace "ME3" with "Death". The bottom part of that picture is saying the beginning and end are always the same no matter what "variation" the middle has. This can be said for the Mass Effect series as well as life.

Spoiler: The rest

You are one of the few people I have gotten to even say "Ok, I can see your point". I have gotten a lot of "But the developers said it was about this"! None of them stopped to think "Well if my choices matter and had all of this weight and lasting effect, then why do I become just another bedtime story equivalent to The Iliad"[footnote]Actually after thinking about it for a few minutes, that is the perfect story for this comparison.[/footnote]? It almost implies that people even doubted it happened or at least think some/most parts are greatly exaggerated.

This one understands now. I think your birth-life-death allegory is very interesting and well thought out, although 1) I'm fairly certain that that was not intended, and 2) I personally disagree with that interpretation. It's still pretty cool though.

As for your second point, I see where you're coming from but strongly disagree. Would you say that, for instance, the actions/choices of George Washington mattered, and had weight and lasting effect? Because I would say that his choices and actions mattered, but he has effectively become what you call "just another bedtime story". What you describe is merely what happens to important events and people when you add a significant amount of time.

For some reason though, I really like your comparison of the Illiad to Mass Effect.

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

i though the ending was good. not what i would have picked, but then again it worked. people are only bitching about the ending because it's not the cliche "YOU SAVED THE GALAXY! THE REAPERS ARE DEFEATED! YAY!!!!" ending.

God forbid anyone actually have to think.

You're exactly the kind of jackass twohundredpercent was talking about.

We hate the ending because it's fucking STUPID, not because it's sad.

Explain why my squadmates who were all on earth (and the two who were with me are implied to be killed/badly wounded) teleport to the Normandy.

Explain the Synthesis ending. Go ahead, I dare you, explain any damn thing about it. Why is there suddenly magic in an up-til-now hard sci-fi universe? Why is this awkward transhumanism theme shoehorned in at the end of a series that lacked it entirely?

Explain why the Destroy ending (the only one that actually accomplishes Shepard's mission) requires the destruction of all synthetic life, in direct contradiction to the series' major ongoing Aesop that synthetics and organics can and should get along?

And explain why every one of these endings render all previous decisions made in the series moot.

And off-topic, explain why the hell my captcha to post this is a goddamn Chevrolet ad. "The all-new Chevy Sonic." What the actual fuck.

well, sorry you didn't like the ending but at the same time IT'S A FUCKING GAME! christ you think someone actually died from all this internet rage. if you didn't like it, make your own damn game, then you can have whatever ending you want. until then STFU. i've played ME1, ME2 and ME3 and liked my ending. not saying it was perfect, but i liked it.

and all i see out of your post is "blahblahblahBUTTHURTblahblahblahCHANGETHEENDINGBECAUSEI'MSOFUCKINGIMPORTANTblahblahblah"

 

[OdinSeraph]

I enjoyed the ending, I went through all three and personally I like the middle choice. I like where and how the story ended. Leaving it open to what you "think" happened instead of outright telling you.

Spoiler

You can imagine Tali safe and sound on her new home on Rannoc. Wrex playing around with thousands of little Krogan, the Rachni Queen leaving to go find a new planet to sing on.

Your choices did matter, but not in the ending as much as people think.

[a href="http://www.ign.com/wikis/mass-effect-3/End_Game_Chart_-_With_Spoilers"] IGN's End game Chart, caution Spoilers! [/a]

There are actually 18 variations of those last 10 minutes. Maybe the reason we don't get to see everything is because as gamers we actually try to get every little item and scrap we can? I understand the final decision was three, but small bits around it are actually quite larger. I am going to have to go back and see these one by one before I say if they are good/bad/indifferent but I thought I should say something.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

well, sorry you didn't like the ending but at the same time IT'S A FUCKING GAME! christ you think someone actually died from all this internet rage. if you didn't like it, make your own damn game, then you can have whatever ending you want. until then STFU. i've played ME1, ME2 and ME3 and liked my ending. not saying it was perfect, but i liked it.

and all i see out of your post is "blahblahblahBUTTHURTblahblahblahCHANGETHEENDINGBECAUSEI'MSOFUCKINGIMPORTANTblahblahblah"

He's angry because keyboard warriors keep misrepresenting his argument. First as "U WANT HAPPY ENDING KTHX LOLZ" and then, when that's debunked, as "blahblahblahBUTTHURTblahblahblahCHANGETHEENDINGBECAUSEI'MSOFUCKINGIMPORTANTblahblahblah". If you can't be bothered to listen to and/or attempt to understand conflicting points of view, if your sole response is to taunt, belittle, misrepresent, and beat down straw men, then you really don't have grounds to be surprised when your attitude is met with irritation. This is honestly one of the most juvenile, most aggressive forms of trolling and basic, root level antagonism. The fact that you're cheerfully engaging in it, whilst attempting to present yourself as the level-headed, mature party in the conversation, shows a stunning lack of self-reflection.

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

well, sorry you didn't like the ending but at the same time IT'S A FUCKING GAME! christ you think someone actually died from all this internet rage. if you didn't like it, make your own damn game, then you can have whatever ending you want. until then STFU. i've played ME1, ME2 and ME3 and liked my ending. not saying it was perfect, but i liked it.

and all i see out of your post is "blahblahblahBUTTHURTblahblahblahCHANGETHEENDINGBECAUSEI'MSOFUCKINGIMPORTANTblahblahblah"

He's angry because keyboard warriors keep misrepresenting his argument. First as "U WANT HAPPY ENDING KTHX LOLZ" and then, when that's debunked, as "blahblahblahBUTTHURTblahblahblahCHANGETHEENDINGBECAUSEI'MSOFUCKINGIMPORTANTblahblahblah". If you can't be bothered to listen to and/or attempt to understand conflicting points of view, if your sole response is to taunt, belittle, misrepresent, and beat down straw men, then you really don't have grounds to be surprised when your attitude is met with irritation. This is honestly one of the most juvenile, most aggressive forms of trolling and basic, root level antagonism. The fact that you're cheerfully engaging in it, whilst attempting to present yourself as the level-headed, mature party in the conversation, shows a stunning lack of self-reflection.

well, you missed the point TWICE, but ok. i just don't know why everyone is up in arms about the ending. i also don't why people think they are so entitled to say that they demand a different ending of a game in which they had no part of creating said game. also, a whole paragraph? jesus christ, you could talk a brick wall down. also, i am not angry. i don't where you got that from, Dr.Phil.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

well, you missed the point TWICE, but ok. i just don't know why everyone is up in arms about the ending. i also don't why people think they are so entitled to say that they demand a different ending of a game in which they had no part of creating said game. also, a whole paragraph? jesus christ, you could talk a brick wall down. also, i am not angry. i don't where you got that from, Dr.Phil.

Yeah...and this is the point you're missing. Your INABILITY to understand other points of view does not necessarily indicate that other points of view are flawed. It demonstrates an INABILITY on your part to think outside yourself. Believe it or not, I'm capable of paraphrasing the arguments of people who disagree with me in respectful ways, without resorting to straw men, name calling, or sneering. I may still disagree with them, but that doesn't mean I can't UNDERSTAND and RESPECT their point of view. There isn't even a real trick to it. It's called being an adult.

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

well, you missed the point TWICE, but ok. i just don't know why everyone is up in arms about the ending. i also don't why people think they are so entitled to say that they demand a different ending of a game in which they had no part of creating said game. also, a whole paragraph? jesus christ, you could talk a brick wall down. also, i am not angry. i don't where you got that from, Dr.Phil.

Yeah...and this is the point you're missing. Your INABILITY to understand other points of view does not necessarily indicate that other points of view are flawed. It demonstrates an INABILITY on your part to think outside yourself. Believe it or not, I'm capable of paraphrasing the arguments of people who disagree with me in respectful ways, without resorting to straw men, name calling, or sneering. I may still disagree with them, but that doesn't mean I can't UNDERSTAND and RESPECT their point of view. There isn't even a real trick to it. It's called being an adult.

well then you tell me why, I DON'T KNOW!!! if i did...then i would know. but i don't.

so, you tell me why people should have a say in games they had nothing to do with.

 

[Newps]

The game is not over yet and that is what makes me sad. that the game forces you to buy DLC to finish the fight. That is just wrong. Worse than the ending of this game. Back in the old days of 2011 we finished the game with out shipping it broken and not finished. If there was more to the game after that moment it would have been the greatest thing of all time. No if ands or buts, it would have been the greatest thing in gaming if only they finished this epic game.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

so, you tell me why people should have a say in games they had nothing to do with.

Have you ever owned, or operated, or had a stake in a business that was customer facing?

Are you familiar with the concept of how a complaining customer is a customer who is giving you a chance to make things right, and giving you a chance to keep their business?

The alternative is a customer who just leaves, and gives their business to someone else, and never gives you a chance to repair that relationship. That's just lost revenue.

Are you aware that Bioware is, first and foremost, a business? A business that relies on annual income from game sales to maintain their existence?

Are you aware that Bioware, via Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble, have said on numerous occasions that they consider the players to be co-authors, and that they write their games based in large part on player feedback? A concept reaffirmed by Ray Muzyka in his address regarding the endings?

Are you aware that Bioware, via Jessica Merizan, praised "Retake ME3" as an example of positive, constructive criticism, and said they made her proud to work with the community?

So maybe YOU can tell ME...what part is it about fans expressing criticism of a game, a game they have been expressly invited on numerous occasions to criticize and take part on the direction of, what part of that process is problematic to you? What's the preferable alternative? Fans have no opinions at all? Fans just cease to be fans, and Bioware ceases to exist?

 

[Woodsey]

Actually, I didn't find the ending that bad. It was more of a "Well, that happened," reaction for me rather than incandescent rage. I expected how ready you were having a far greater impact on how the ending turned out, but that's about my biggest complaint. The whole segment with Anderson and the Illusive Man was excellent, in my opinion.

I'm inclined to agree, although perhaps I was just expecting far worse given the furor over it.

I do think a better idea would be to have that moment with Shepard and Anderson and, as they watch, you see if you'd done enough to win or not. Even so, that's not perfect. They were trying to capitalise on the idea that this had gone on for millions of years, and that stopping it really was nigh-impossible.

The people who just plain didn't like it - and seem to find it a personal insult that they were all rather depressing - remind me of the guys who played the second game and were surprised when their team mates and their Shepard died, and they couldn't use them in the third game. After being told it was a suicide mission. In game and out. Multiple times.

I'm more sympathetic (empathetic?) to those who feel the choices we made should have played a far larger role (especially when they got the ME2 finale so right), although plenty of those then dive head first into the "EVERY CHOICE WAS MEANINGLESS" argument. Choices weren't meaningless, they were just taken into account in the middle portion of the story as opposed to right at the end. But yes, the care and attention that went into making the ME2 finale would have been welcome.

snip

Take it into account on the next project, not one that's done and dusted. There's something to be said for artistic principles. You've noted yourself that they're first and foremost a business, so the struggle to maintain any semblance of those principles is already on something of a knife-edge.

 

[verdant monkai]

HERETIC but no really there are to many unanswered questions, like why does joker abandon you. I am sorry but I just feel that if you liked the end you just don't really care about the story or characters that much because, you are left clueless as to what happens to them.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Take it into account on the next project, not one that's done and dusted. There's something to be said for artistic principles. You've noted yourself that they're first and foremost a business, so the struggle to maintain any semblance of those principles is already on something of a knife-edge.

Yeah but it's not done and dusted, though. It's a medium that constantly gets patched, constantly expands via DLC, and is pretty much in a persistent state of evolution from the moment it's released. Not to mention it's a game that already allowed for the concept of multiple endings to begin with. Once you've crossed the "this can end in more than one way" threshold the "canon" argument ceases to have any real weight. They can fix their logical loopholes, clean up their shit production values, and slap a few more endings on that thing, and their artistic integrity will be 100% intact. What artistic integrity they have left to lay claim to after Photoshop Tali and EDI's camel toe, mind you. =P

 

[TakeshiLive]

I will respect Bioware's decision for the Mass Effect trilogy's conclusion. It's their IP, not mine or yours however much we may get attached to it. If you don't like it, well then, go make your own epic sci-fi trilogy and end that the way you want it to.

 

[Woodsey]

Take it into account on the next project, not one that's done and dusted. There's something to be said for artistic principles. You've noted yourself that they're first and foremost a business, so the struggle to maintain any semblance of those principles is already on something of a knife-edge.

Yeah but it's not done and dusted, though. It's a medium that constantly gets patched, constantly expands via DLC, and is pretty much in a persistent state of evolution from the moment it's released. Not to mention it's a game that already allowed for the concept of multiple endings to begin with. Once you've crossed the "this can end in more than one way" threshold the "canon" argument ceases to have any real weight. They can fix their logical loopholes, clean up their shit production values, and slap a few more endings on that thing, and their artistic integrity will be 100% intact. What artistic integrity they have left to lay claim to after Photoshop Tali and EDI's camel toe, mind you. =P

Much of their DLC has been shit (as a development studio in general, they're no good at it), and I'd hardly call that maintaining artistic integrity; bolting something on to the end, or pretending that part of the story never happened.

Disconnects happen between creators and their audience all the time, and that's not grounds for the audience wrestling any sort of control beyond expressing their opinion. Pull apart the ending, rip it to shreds, say its the worst thing you've ever seen, yada yada yada, but apply that knowledge to the next game.

Is it a shame? Yes. Is ripping off the ending and starting again, as directed by the audience, the right response? No.

 

[PonceyMcTosserFaic]

so, you tell me why people should have a say in games they had nothing to do with.

Have you ever owned, or operated, or had a stake in a business that was customer facing?

Are you familiar with the concept of how a complaining customer is a customer who is giving you a chance to make things right, and giving you a chance to keep their business?

The alternative is a customer who just leaves, and gives their business to someone else, and never gives you a chance to repair that relationship. That's just lost revenue.

Are you aware that Bioware is, first and foremost, a business? A business that relies on annual income from game sales to maintain their existence?

Are you aware that Bioware, via Casey Hudson and Mike Gamble, have said on numerous occasions that they consider the players to be co-authors, and that they write their games based in large part on player feedback? A concept reaffirmed by Ray Muzyka in his address regarding the endings?

Are you aware that Bioware, via Jessica Merizan, praised "Retake ME3" as an example of positive, constructive criticism, and said they made her proud to work with the community?

So maybe YOU can tell ME...what part is it about fans expressing criticism of a game, a game they have been expressly invited on numerous occasions to criticize and take part on the direction of, what part of that process is problematic to you? What's the preferable alternative? Fans have no opinions at all? Fans just cease to be fans, and Bioware ceases to exist?

see now that makes alot more sense. those are some damn good points. my conflict is that people are not just asking for a new ending, they are demanding it as if they have any authority in the matter. honestly i wouldn't mind a new ending. I just think some people need to chill first. It really is only a game. Off-topic i am not a raging bioware fan. I REALLY wish they hadn't F---ED up C&C4. I was really looking forward to that. but i feel in this case bioware is getting aggro they don't deserve.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Is it a shame? Yes. Is ripping off the ending and starting again, as directed by the audience, the right response? No.

I gotta tell you, we all need to collectively stop doing this. Asking ourselves a question and then responding with our opinion is not a compelling statement of fact.

As for the rest of it...the audience always has "control", insomuch as their willingness to consume or not consume the product in question drives development. That control has always been here. It's application in this case is no different.

And again, adding more endings to a game with multiple endings does nothing to the artistic integrity. Nothing at all. Even if they release DLC that retcons the ending, it's still just another permutation of the canon. This is a game where genders can be switched around, people live and die, entire civilizations rise and fall, depending on player input. Toggling an ending doesn't chuck it off the cliff of artistic relevance.

see now that makes alot more sense. those are some damn good points. my conflict is that people are not just asking for a new ending, they are demanding it as if they have any authority in the matter. honestly i wouldn't mind a new ending. Off-topic i am not a raging bioware fan. I REALLY wish they hadn't F---ED up C&C4. I was really looking forward to that. but i feel in this case bioware is getting aggro they don't deserve.

What's the demand, though? The demand is just a threat to take their business elsewhere, and that's a threat that every consumer has a fundamental right to exercise. If people were kidnapping Bioware developers it would be one thing. This is just the market responding to a bad decision. As Bioware has more loyal fans than most developers, they're giving them a chance to fix it instead of just pissing off. Bioware's response to this is GRATITUDE. The only people getting upset are random spectators on forums.