I now know why everyone hates Metal Gear Solid: 2
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I haven't played the MGS series, but given the fact that his original post complained about the game's story being delivered poorly saying that he failed to understand it doesn't have an bearing on his criticism. In literature and most multimedia the rule is SHOW don't TELL. This means that you should SHOW character traits or relationships through their actions rather than delivering it via exposition because the result will always be more powerful.Conrad Wentzel said:
In video games we get to add an extra dimension to this called DO don't SHOW. Where we can further increase the power of a plot point's delivery by reinforcing it through a player's actions or the game's mechanics. Be it in God of War where you press the buttons causing Kratos brutalize enemies or Deus Ex where as your character progresses through the game you become more than human thus delivering through mechanics the argument for transhumanism.
To use horror as an example this is what the three look like:
Tell: "I am very scared right now, a monster is trying to eat me."
Show: "Oh god oh god oh god... where is it? I can't see it... all I can hear is the scuttling."
Do: "Oh crap... it's behind me... where's the door! WHY CAN'T I OPEN THE DOOR I KEEP PRESSING E! Nooooooooo!"
I thought MGS2 was good 0__o I didn't know it was hated or considered a bad game. Hell the only Metal Gear game I consider bad was the original Metal Gear on NES, and only because if you got killed you had to star the entire game all over again 
the black sheep of my favorite series? Well within canon that would be Adventures of Link Zelda II for the NES, the game isn't bad, I can still play and enjoy it, but when compared to the rest of the series... outside of canon there's those CDi games I try to pretend I never played or that the ever existed
the black sheep of my favorite series? Well within canon that would be Adventures of Link Zelda II for the NES, the game isn't bad, I can still play and enjoy it, but when compared to the rest of the series... outside of canon there's those CDi games I try to pretend I never played or that the ever existed
Everyone hates MGS2 because you play as Raiden for 90% of it.
Everyone liked Snake in MGS1, so they were expecting more Snake. When you go in expecting to play as the character you like, then forced to run around some new, annoying tard all game long...it makes you hate.
I almost hate Raiden as much as Jar Jar Binks...almost.
Everyone liked Snake in MGS1, so they were expecting more Snake. When you go in expecting to play as the character you like, then forced to run around some new, annoying tard all game long...it makes you hate.
I almost hate Raiden as much as Jar Jar Binks...almost.
For me, Sucker Punch has a habit of making series where the very first game is the black sheep.
Much as I love Sly, Thievius Raccoonus has one of the most controller-snappingly frustrating final stages I've ever encountered. There's just so many cheap deaths that it's unreal. Aside from that, the lives system and instant deaths were dated even for their time. Good thing it became the basis for two far superior Sly games.
Same goes for inFamous - I wanted to like it, I really did, but the terrible climbing mechanics, glossed-over story, bland characters and locations and laughable moral choices ruined the experience for me. And then they fixed pretty much all of that in inFamous 2. Thanks Sucker Punch!
Much as I love Sly, Thievius Raccoonus has one of the most controller-snappingly frustrating final stages I've ever encountered. There's just so many cheap deaths that it's unreal. Aside from that, the lives system and instant deaths were dated even for their time. Good thing it became the basis for two far superior Sly games.
Same goes for inFamous - I wanted to like it, I really did, but the terrible climbing mechanics, glossed-over story, bland characters and locations and laughable moral choices ruined the experience for me. And then they fixed pretty much all of that in inFamous 2. Thanks Sucker Punch!
because we only play as Snake for the first mission and then we play as Raiden and only that he brought his brain dead girlfriend Rose who doesn't shut the f*** up
I hated it for its controls. Yeah, I know it's an "old" game but it was just too outdated for me to play
I thought you were an MGS fan.IanBrazen said:
Black sheep...Hmmm...Dynasty Warriors 6, Saints Row the Third, ummm...That's probably it.
Or nuance, subtlety, character, or video games. It's like he wanted to make a movie but couldn't edit it down to 90 minutes.trty00 said:
I disliked raiden, still played he game 2 or 3 times to get 100%.
I liked mgs4, but mgs4 was about fan service, all the old characters, big boss included was massive fan service, for those that had played the series since snake looked like michael bein from aliens and terminator. So i for one geeked the hell out when BB shows up at the end for mgs4 to tie up the loose ends for your character.
People that dislike the series in general hate the interactive movie angle of them, all of them were really short games when you ct out the codes and movies, why all the speed runs for certain achievements are about an hour to an hour and half.
Those of us that disliked mgs2 just hated raiden, especially after the oh so awesome opening scene, which i think you could play as a demo as snake, then the game comes out and SURPRISE a character that comes off whiny with an annoying gf that isnt even his gf, but yea i get that she and the col. were to keep our boy distracted and off balance over the course of the game.
So yea i would count number 2 as the black sheep just because of that, it was not that the game was bad or the controls were bad. The plot of the game was uber heavy and the bait and switch angle soured too many on it.
zelda 2 was also like wth, after the first oh so brilliant zelda game. even at the time i had a extreme dislike for it.
i liked DA2 however, way more than most.
I liked mgs4, but mgs4 was about fan service, all the old characters, big boss included was massive fan service, for those that had played the series since snake looked like michael bein from aliens and terminator. So i for one geeked the hell out when BB shows up at the end for mgs4 to tie up the loose ends for your character.
People that dislike the series in general hate the interactive movie angle of them, all of them were really short games when you ct out the codes and movies, why all the speed runs for certain achievements are about an hour to an hour and half.
Those of us that disliked mgs2 just hated raiden, especially after the oh so awesome opening scene, which i think you could play as a demo as snake, then the game comes out and SURPRISE a character that comes off whiny with an annoying gf that isnt even his gf, but yea i get that she and the col. were to keep our boy distracted and off balance over the course of the game.
So yea i would count number 2 as the black sheep just because of that, it was not that the game was bad or the controls were bad. The plot of the game was uber heavy and the bait and switch angle soured too many on it.
zelda 2 was also like wth, after the first oh so brilliant zelda game. even at the time i had a extreme dislike for it.
i liked DA2 however, way more than most.
I think Sonic Heroes was pretty clever in it's gameplay.
The special stages though, are so annoying.
The special stages though, are so annoying.
Yes I was looking for that, and I do like that interpretation. Though I don't know how many people will buy it.DioWallachia said:
No I completely understood all of the story. I think its a FANTASTIC story I just think its not told very well.Conrad Wentzel said:
The same thing with the star wars prequels, I think they are great story's, but the story's are told very badly.
If MGS:2 was less heavy handed and it explained things more through cutscenes and game play instead of the codec I would probably enjoy it just as much as snake eater.
You know what, now that you mention it, the game is probably a lot worse than I let myself believe lol.Matthew94 said:
I just block out most of the bad stuff and let the good parts shine in my memory lol.
I pretty much agree with all you said.
However the one thing that really bugged me was Naomi trying to have a tragic death scene with the damn little robot. It just made me laugh.
Otacon used the stealth camo in the first game, why couldn't he use it here?
Oh and johnny is a bullshit character, and should have just stayed a joke.
They all had fixed cameras, but mgs2 was the worst one imo. I dont mind fixed cameras as long as they are done well.lemby117 said:
I'd actually argue that if the MGS series has a black sheep it's MGS1, the only one in the series that isn't packed to the brim with fucking insano mind bending plot twists. I mean it has some plot twists, some very good ones, but when I first played MGS2 and whoever it was was revealing who The Patriots were to Raiden my jaw hit the floor, and it only escalated after that. MGS1 seems much more like a conventional, vanilla action/espionage game in comparison to the rest of them.
The irony of it is that From The New World was intended to be a break from the previous games to attract new players. It didn't work, and most of it's faults just annoyed the fans of the previous games (all 12 of us). I'm still not sure what exactly whoever came-up with Mao's ability quests was thinking (other than they needed something even less practical than Hilda's shape-shifting). The story is particularly grating considering that the only real emotional depth we see in it are from the villains, while the player is stuck following the story of Blond Young Male Protagonist#73 and Miss Fanservice.Arqus_Zed said:
I still think that Metal Gear one two and three are good. Solid sci-fi but its the new one coming out. Rising Revengence. That sounds utterly retarded. If you are going to do "Revengence" at least put out Metal Gear Rising because at this point the plot holes with Raiden will not become clearer if you try to work at it. Just cut your losses and if you want to make a Sci-fi hack and slash make a new game franchise. Other wise still kinda looking forward to Metal Gear Rising.
Half of the appeal of the Metal Gear series is it's audacity.The Wonder of the net said:
Put it this way, John Cygan has been apparently signed up as a voice actor.
John Cygan as in the voice of Solidus Snake.
Solidus Snake, who died in MGS2, and
who's body was destroyed and burned in place of Big Boss'
That's so ridiculous that it's awesome.
But didn't they just leave Solidus Snake's body there? I mean it would be like taking the watch off a dead guy. He won't use it now.PieBrotherTB said:
*had to edit due to my bad spelling*
But that's why MGS2 is so awesome, it's the ultimate troll game. disregarding all the thing Kojima wanted to do i'll go with whats in the game.
Spoilers
we all know we had to play Riden but we wanted snake, and so does Riden. Your basically doing everything snake does and riden want's to be snake, but he's not. your basically watching snake kick ass, snake is still the main character and your almost just a side character.
the people you are fighting are actually the good guy's and every 10 minute you find out that whatever you where just doing was not what your supposed to be doing.
And the best one is at the end. Kojima basically is making fun of you for playing the game by having everyone tell you where playing a game and that you have no life, and that you should go exercise.
kojima is the best troll, and he does it in the best way. /He makes an awesome game to cover the trolls, but oh are they there.
Spoilers
we all know we had to play Riden but we wanted snake, and so does Riden. Your basically doing everything snake does and riden want's to be snake, but he's not. your basically watching snake kick ass, snake is still the main character and your almost just a side character.
the people you are fighting are actually the good guy's and every 10 minute you find out that whatever you where just doing was not what your supposed to be doing.
And the best one is at the end. Kojima basically is making fun of you for playing the game by having everyone tell you where playing a game and that you have no life, and that you should go exercise.
kojima is the best troll, and he does it in the best way. /He makes an awesome game to cover the trolls, but oh are they there.