I now know why everyone hates Metal Gear Solid: 2

[Burst6]

MGS2 wasn't horrible. The gameplay was very solid(hehe) and the stealth was nice. I just could not take raiden seriously. His every conversation with rose just made me want cringe. I'm sure they were trying to make him sympathetic with a bad past, but he just came off as whiny.

I don't know why you guys complain about cutscene length though. Try playing MGS4. It was mostly made of cutscenes. It holds the record for the biggest cutscene in video gaming history at 27 minutes. Yes, one of the cutscenes is longer than most TV episodes minus commercials. Combine all the cutscenes and you get several feature length movies.

 

[elvor0]

guys im not defending the game, but if you dont like or care for the codec parts, just skip ém. Still the gameplay itself is pretty flawed, and those underwater parts - damn that was some controllersnapping frustration

The only problem with that is you miss out of vital parts of the story sometimes so it gets a bit risky. I've never had any problems with the length of cinematics in MGS myself though, I get totally sucked in.

The main problem I have with MGS2 is the fucking camera. I can't see guards 1 foot in front of me and it's fucking infuriating constantly running into them. Especially after spending a lot of time with MGS3 and Peace Walker where you have a 3D camera, fixed isometric for a stealth action game is a really poor choice.

There's a TvTropes entry for MGS2's ENDING. It concluded that MGS2 established Kojima as a Troll/Magnificent Bastard, and the fans love him for it.

I linked the essay by James Clinton Howell that linked to. I doubt people are reading it, unfortunately.

Ah I've just started reading it actually, quite interesting, and pretty true so far, all your expectations are just subverted all the time, which of course, proves that Kojima is a Troll and a Magnificent Bastard at the same time.

 

[Syndarr]

I can't speak for the Metal Gear Solid series, since I tried to play MGS2 and just sucked so bad at it that I gave up. XD But my black sheep is probably (and I feel bad saying this) Blood Omen. I absolutely adore the Legacy of Kain series, but the very first one is frustrating as hell to play. Plus, I have the PS1 version, and the loading times whenever you try to access your inventory screen are just inexcusable.

 

[suitepee7]

i gotta say the black sheep for me was dmc2. what a terrible game, especially considering what came before and in particular after, one of the best games ever.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I love the Zelda series so I'm not even going to try to deny Zelda 2 as the black sheep. I know there are three more but I've never played them. I do plan to though, once I own a certain system but there is a lot of other, better stuff to collect first. I loved Zelda 2 though and thought it was the most rewarding title in the series once you beat the thing. Hell, getting through Death Mountain was also pretty rewarding.

I haven't beaten MGS2 but I remember there being a lot of cutscenes and codec bits...I don't remember being particularly bothered by them though. I liked playing as Raiden and remember nothing from the ad campaign.

 

[Elgnirp100]

Metroid Other M was the "black sheep" of my favourite game series.
DMC2 was also.
Sonic '06.
Ratchet: Gladiator (Deadlocked in America) and All 4 One.
The list goes on...

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I know Final Fantasy VIII is the knee-jerk reaction, but honestly, a game like XIII is probably more of a black sheep. FFVIII is still a more-or-less 'traditional' Final Fantasy.

Breath of Fire V is another black sheep, as well as franchise-killer-apparent.

 

[thelonewolf266]

I didn't think people actually disliked MGS:2 I thought it was more Raiden they weren't keen on.One of my friends who is a Metal Gear Nut said that the game-play of 2 was some of the best in the series he just didn't like the protagonist.

 

[FoolKiller]

Conviction and whatever is next for Splinter Cell make me unhappy.

It used to be about sneaking around as an operative and what not. Now its turned into the "press A at the right time" game. No skill required to play through the game. The stealth has you do a lot of killing (which isn't very stealthy) and you can't move bodies, which has been the staple of the franchise since the beginning.

 

[FoolKiller]

Try playing MGS4. It was mostly made of cutscenes. It holds the record for the biggest cutscene in video gaming history at 27 minutes.

There were cutscenes (non stop non-playable portions) in part 2 that were longer than 27 minutes. Much longer. I remember and cringe every time.

 

[Rack]

I can't speak for the Metal Gear Solid series, since I tried to play MGS2 and just sucked so bad at it that I gave up. XD But my black sheep is probably (and I feel bad saying this) Blood Omen. I absolutely adore the Legacy of Kain series, but the very first one is frustrating as hell to play. Plus, I have the PS1 version, and the loading times whenever you try to access your inventory screen are just inexcusable.

The loading times were insane but I still found Blood Omen to be easily my favourite Legacy of Kain title. I don't know if its my 2d routes but I found Soul Reaver clunky and after that it kind of lost its way.

Mine (and this is going to get me burnt at the stake) is GTA: San Andreas. The size of the map, coupled with some bizarre design decisions meant the ratio of gameplay to just driving around trying not to break any traffic laws was about 500:1.

 

[baddude1337]

Black Sheep of a favourite franchise? I don't really have one to e honest. I guess the upcoming Splinter Cell game, looks as far from stealth as it can possibly be. And they don't even have the same voice actor!

Not exactly a favourite series, but Black Ops. For someone who originally got into the first CoD thanks to its campaign, Black Ops has the worst single player campaign not only in the series, but in every FPS I have ever played bar Gods & Generals.

 

[Truly-A-Lie]

I love MGS2. Everything people hate about it is so deliberate that I can't help but love it. It takes a step back to insult everyone who looks up to Solid Snake as a hero, rips apart everything that was expected from it based on experience with MGS1, and goes so far overboard on the mental story that it seems to make no effort to make sense that I'm genuinely impressed MGS4 managed to write it back into something resembling a cause-effect chain.

What I really don't understand is how anyone could complain that they don't play as Snake. The story has Raiden repeatedly in the dark about events, he's fooled into re-enacting MGS1 and was being lied to the entire time. You want to play as Snake because you think he's a heroic badass, and yet you want a story in which he falls for all of that? It's so contradictory.

 

[Overusedname]

Well, The Legend of Zelda has two black sheep: Zelda II and Majora's Mask.

Majora's Mask is just bizarre both in context of the franchise and...bizarre in general, but I and a lot of gamer's still call it a masterpiece. It's one of my favorite games, despite it's handful of flaws.

Zelda II is, in my opinion, kinda bad. Not awful, but it's aged terribly and has little to do with the rest of the franchise in terms of gameplay. It's controls felt clunky and the presentation is also kinda ugly and inconsistent. I would say that was the fault of the NES's limitations, but Megaman and Castlevania were able to convey a lot of style and personality. From what I've seen, a lot of people seem to hate it.

 

[Arqus_Zed]

The black sheep in my favorite game franchise?

That would be either Jak & Daxter: The Lost Frontier or Shadow Hearts: From The New World.

Jak & Daxter: The Lost Frontier Was the worst thing to happen to the amazing Jak & Daxter franchise. Bad story, lame switch in art design and nonsensical plot contrivances (Jak doesn't use Dark Jak anymore and Daxter can now turn into Dark Daxter. WHAT?!) Furthermore, the environments are just downright disappointing and the gameplay is but a hollow remnant of predecessors. Then again, this wasn't made Naughty Dog. Not even by Ready At Dawn, who at least realized you could not bring the full Jak & Daxter experience to a handheld. So they didn't, they created a unique mid-quel revolving around Daxter. It was different, that's why it worked!

As for the third and final installments in the Shadow Hearts series... I've already voiced my complaints numerous times before: lousy characters, lame story, only five fusions (really, five? compared to the 20 of SH or the 23 of SH:C?) and no evolution what so ever in terms of graphics and gameplay. Hell, they even took a couple of steps back: the stellar chart system isn't nearly as interesting as the Key of Solomon mechanic, the CG cut-scenes aren't as impressive and most environments don't leave much of an impression. Not to mention that the franchise used to mix genuinely deep, heavy and even horrific moments with some truly funny moments. This one was just a silly slapstick fest. The only solace is that Yoshitaka Hirota still provided a kick-ass soundtrack. Still, worst way to end a trilogy. Ever.

 

[Lugbzurg]

Yeah, definitely '06 from the Sonic franchise.

Also I quite liked MGS2, perhaps not as much as the other games in the series, but I wouldn't distance it enough to call it the black sheep of the franchise.

Oh, and DMC2 of course.

'06? I'd say Sonic Unleashed, even more so. I found it even worse. You think Metal Gear Solid 2 was bad by taking control away from the player so often through cutscenes and codec, this game takes control away from the player during the gameplay! Seriously, you're scarcely doing a dang thing in this game! There's no sense of pace, and everything's overly-simplified. Not to mention how the levels are suddenly turned into railroads for the player to follow a strict, linear path with barely any horizontal space to speak of.

I also hear Serious Sam 2 is one of these "black sheep". And it shouldn't be confused with The Second Encounter.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

I liked it, was different in some weird ways, but over all I enjoyed it. So not everyone hates it kthnxbai.

 

[Hosker]

I really like MGS2, codex and all. Perhaps it's the nostalgia talking, but I still enjoy playing it nowadays. I can't think of my own example right now, but Dragon Age 2 might end up being that if 3 turns out good.

 

[IanBrazen]

guys im not defending the game, but if you dont like or care for the codec parts, just skip ém. Still the gameplay itself is pretty flawed, and those underwater parts - damn that was some controllersnapping frustration

I f I could have skipped the codec scenes without skipping MAJOR plot points I would have. Half the story is told in codec so I would be skipping half the story.

Metroid Other M was the "black sheep" of my favourite game series.

THE BABY! lol sorry dude couldn't resist.

I liked MGS2, it was quality and got better as the game went on. MGS4 is my "black sheep", the game is just plain shit.

I'm not saying your wrong but I did enjoy MGS4...well most of it, I have serious problems with two scenes.
Don't worry I wont start anything I'm just curious why you hate it more than two.

 

[razer17]

Not everyone hates MGS2. RAiden is an awesome character, and the gameplay was the best in the entire series. MGS3 has a better story, but MGS2 had the sword section at the end.