I hated the music and hate the music in the GC remake of MGS 1 ;_; It threw me off the series......
I now know why everyone hates Metal Gear Solid: 2
- Thread starter IanBrazen
- Start date
Recommended Videos
It's what I call "Invisible War" syndrome. The critics and newbies to the franchise loved it, but the fans hated it with a passion. For IW, it was because it had to live up to the original Deus Ex, but in the case of MGS2, it's because the fans hate Raidan more the Big Bad.
Perhaps my problem was that MGS 2 was the first (and only) game in the series that I played, but the reason I didn't like it (other than thinking Raiden was a complete tool) was that - despite being told how the game tries to be more realistic with it's science fiction, offering actual explinations for things like what's her face having "bulletproof luck" actually being shielding technology - the game just didn't make any sense to me at the end. You defeat Vamp by knocking him into that hyper-oxygenated water (or whatever) which basically means that if you fall in, you're going straight to the bottom and it will most assuredly lead to your death. Sooooo how did Vamp come back later on? And if the entire game is real - and not as I had assumed due to the ending, a combat simulator that Raiden was plugged into - then how the hell does Snake have an actual Infinite Ammo Bandana?
Edit: I will say this, though, MGS 2 let me pull off on of the funniest things I've ever done in a videogame to this day. It was at the part where you have to dress up like a terrorist. I had gotten an alarm and had the search team called in. With absolutely NOWHERE to go, I did the only thing I could: hopped into a locker. Sure enough, they search the lockers 1 by 1, finding me standing there in the last one wearing my terrorist outfit and.....then they called off the search and went away. As though it's perfectly normal to find one of their comrades just chilling out inside of a locker.
Edit: I will say this, though, MGS 2 let me pull off on of the funniest things I've ever done in a videogame to this day. It was at the part where you have to dress up like a terrorist. I had gotten an alarm and had the search team called in. With absolutely NOWHERE to go, I did the only thing I could: hopped into a locker. Sure enough, they search the lockers 1 by 1, finding me standing there in the last one wearing my terrorist outfit and.....then they called off the search and went away. As though it's perfectly normal to find one of their comrades just chilling out inside of a locker.
That's extremely well put.MGS3 actually makes you pull the trigger that kills the boss in the end of the game, I cannot think of a better example besides the one's you already listed.chimeracreator said:
You are completely missing my point. I like Raiden. I like the game play. I like just about everything about it except the way the story is told.Gone Rampant said:
I will sit through the most heavy handed drivel, and I even watch bad movies for fun. BUT when the fake Colonel Campbell is telling Raiden his evil plan for at least 10-20 mins and the only way I can entertain myself is constantly zooming in on the character portraits then the story teller has failed.
Because that is what its supposed to be about, entertainment.
This isn't the story that will change the face of the world, its supposed to be fun and engaging.
Period.
One of the things I find funny is that "The Legend of Zelda 2" and "Mario 2" here in the west were essentially games from other franchises who were repackaged into the brand to make them sell better. Hence the utterly different mechanics and style.
The first 2 Shadow Hearts games were connected to a PS1 game called "Koudekella" (s/p?) whose title character makes a cameo in SH1. (Her son happens to be a playable character too). Essentailly, either these three games simply share a continuity or the actual "Shadow Hearts Trilogy" begins with a game without "Shadow Hearts" in the title. The worst thing with New World (for me) was they totally disregarded many aspects of the Setting (in the full literary sense) laid down in previous games. Its like King Arthur pulling out an Uzi instead of Excalibur in the middle of an otherwise failthful re-telling of Arthurian legend.
Where things REALLY tend to go wrong is something every teacher on the planet SHOULD be taught before they set foot in the classroom but few learn:
"Keeping things a little different each time you give a lesson keeps things fresh and interesting. Vary the presentation a little, vary the tools, vary the challenges. Never EVER deliberately sabotage your students by testing them on material they were not prepared for or deliberately use "trick" questions because at that point you are simply making the challenge difficult without adding anything to your instruction. Simply prune away any unneccessary elements and you will be astounded by the ingenuity of your students."
--Mr. Kojima.
Please put the pencil down. Attempting at every turn to subvert a player's expectations and add unneccessary - and LENGTHY - plot twists in every installment of your games is a violation of the above rule. You may think you are being clever by subverting the scripts a player learns through gameplay to try to elevate the dramatic plot twists. Don't. Stop. Stop Immediately! Such subversions are why people hate Raiden and will continue to hate him. You programmed into MGS:2 that Raiden is NOT Solid Snake (the protagonist of your series) NOR is the Player. Your escalating use of cutscene and excessive monologue/dialaogue at the expense of action and play is not helping your games it is HURTING your games. No matter how much you may want it to be, the player is not another nameless, faceless part of the support staff and trying to deliberately seaparate the player from the actions of Solid Snake induces resentment. It would be much the same as a Chef asking restaraunt patrons not to touch the food he prepared. Removing all the familiar elements while simultanously forcing a hundred unwanted elements on us is NOT FUN. We buy your games hoping that THIS time you have finally come to your senses and STOPPED. One by one we are losing faith. Stop being clever and START being GOOD!
--Signed, a fan who stopped buying your games after the NES era.
The first 2 Shadow Hearts games were connected to a PS1 game called "Koudekella" (s/p?) whose title character makes a cameo in SH1. (Her son happens to be a playable character too). Essentailly, either these three games simply share a continuity or the actual "Shadow Hearts Trilogy" begins with a game without "Shadow Hearts" in the title. The worst thing with New World (for me) was they totally disregarded many aspects of the Setting (in the full literary sense) laid down in previous games. Its like King Arthur pulling out an Uzi instead of Excalibur in the middle of an otherwise failthful re-telling of Arthurian legend.
Where things REALLY tend to go wrong is something every teacher on the planet SHOULD be taught before they set foot in the classroom but few learn:
"Keeping things a little different each time you give a lesson keeps things fresh and interesting. Vary the presentation a little, vary the tools, vary the challenges. Never EVER deliberately sabotage your students by testing them on material they were not prepared for or deliberately use "trick" questions because at that point you are simply making the challenge difficult without adding anything to your instruction. Simply prune away any unneccessary elements and you will be astounded by the ingenuity of your students."
--Mr. Kojima.
Please put the pencil down. Attempting at every turn to subvert a player's expectations and add unneccessary - and LENGTHY - plot twists in every installment of your games is a violation of the above rule. You may think you are being clever by subverting the scripts a player learns through gameplay to try to elevate the dramatic plot twists. Don't. Stop. Stop Immediately! Such subversions are why people hate Raiden and will continue to hate him. You programmed into MGS:2 that Raiden is NOT Solid Snake (the protagonist of your series) NOR is the Player. Your escalating use of cutscene and excessive monologue/dialaogue at the expense of action and play is not helping your games it is HURTING your games. No matter how much you may want it to be, the player is not another nameless, faceless part of the support staff and trying to deliberately seaparate the player from the actions of Solid Snake induces resentment. It would be much the same as a Chef asking restaraunt patrons not to touch the food he prepared. Removing all the familiar elements while simultanously forcing a hundred unwanted elements on us is NOT FUN. We buy your games hoping that THIS time you have finally come to your senses and STOPPED. One by one we are losing faith. Stop being clever and START being GOOD!
--Signed, a fan who stopped buying your games after the NES era.
But that's wrong. MGS2 had far too little gameplay content and far, far too much soppy and unintelligent drivel in the form of cutscenes and codec. It wasn't cause we liked MGS1's Snake, it was that Snake was in the preview of the game as they only released the tanker mission. They appeared to have baited and switched. People acting like it's been solid snake the entire time through all the prior games? At this early stage there really was no character loyalty.Zenn3k said:
In MGS2 Raiden's fine. Apart from his stupid bishy hair he's fairly likeable and I get to stare at his package and bum an awful lot so yeah. Raiden becomes insufferable in MGS4 though.
The biggest flaw by far was the cutscene ad nauseum not Raiden's inclusion.
The only thing I can remember about MGS2 is that part during the ending where Snake suddenly appears out of nowhere after an exciting action sequence to lecture Raiden on the meaning of reality (and bacon) with accompanying stock footage of.......stuff. I remember laughing my arse off at that. Sure, it had some interesting ideas, but at the time I just found it fucking ludicrous.
I'm not one of the girls who has issues playing as female characters like that, which is probably why I don't understand why men hate it. The majority of the characters are idealized for men I would think they wouldn't care if they had to play on the other side of the fence for a game or two.Xiado said:
Forget about Metal Gear on the NES.Baneat said:
For many gamers, MSG was their first game in the series, it was certainly mine. I had an NES and all, but Metal Gear wasn't a game I played.
I played the shit out of the demo tanker mission as I was 17 when it dropped and working at my first job...gamestop (wasn't actually a gamestop when I got employed, they bought us).
I got the game on release day...played that tanker section again, this time for "real"...then Raiden showed up. I didn't even finish MSG2 on my first attempt. I got so annoyed with Raiden and as you said, the boring long dialog codec moments and just shut the game off.
But most of all, I really though Snake was a badass in MSG1, I liked the character, many others did as well. So that "bait and switch" really turned off a lot of players, myself included.
I do think MSG3 is the best in the series though. Best stealth, best action, cool and interesting boss fights (the sniper duel is the best). Can't top MSG3.
Never played MSG4, don't own a PS3.
That is not at all the case. The point of the essay is that every moment you expect the game to essentially fanservice you by giving you the "new and improved" version of MGS1 it absolutely refuses for very specific thematic reasons.Suki_ said:
Don't really have a favourite but I will say that GTA: Liberty City Stories for me is the worst one of the series, its okay and isn't as good as the others in the series (including the first one), its just the cutscenes aren't good and the controls feel weird and it there feels as if nothings new, its just a butchered GTA 3. Vice City Stories is great though.
Why would it be hard to buy? what evidence do THEY have of the contrary?Lovely Mixture said:
Come to think of it, i wonder if this is STILL Kojima's fault? If his vision really was THAT important to him, then he could at least refuse to the very end to give up to the death threats and the nutjobs will just give up because, if he dies, then there is no one else that can do the games he does.
Okay usually I won't call out on errors but did you know you've been calling it Monosodium Glutamate the entire time?Zenn3k said:
I don't really like Solid Snake at all, especially in MGS1 and I'm not the only one I know that feels that he's a bit bland. Big Boss is the more interesting character by far.
Of course, that was the story about 2, before people started to analyse its "brilliance" and insist that it was done to subvert players' expectations and as an artistic mind-screw.DioWallachia said:
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the excuse offered for any bad Kojima game. If he created a new IP, it would suck intentionally because he was forced to blah blah blah.
I liked Metal Gear Solid: 2...however, besides a bit of Peace Walker, it is the only Metal Gear Solid game I've played, so maybe I'm not the best judge. The black sheep of my favourite gaming series is probably Dynasty Warriors 6. I appreciate that they were trying to do something new, but I think we can all agree it was a big misstep to change the combat like that. Dynasty Warriors 7, on the other hand, had exactly the right amount of new features while still retaining the classic gameplay and aesthetic
I really think that people would have warmed up to Raiden if he had been properly introduced.Xiado said:
If they introduced him properly, showing that he would be the rookie that would be equal to or surpass Solid Snake, and people knew that I think MGS2 would have been better received.
Raiden was introduced because a female fan wrote that she "didn't want to play as some old man." I wish I was making that up.IanBrazen said:
I don't hate Raiden, they worked his place into the story very well, despite his odd introduction to the series.
