I shall now say unkind things about Dark Souls.

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Shuguard

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Apr 19, 2012
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If you need some assistance OP or need questions answered i'm willing to give advice just drop a PM and we can chat on ventrillo or back and forth PM's whichever you prefer. I recommend reading up on the dark souls wikispaces for strategies and a walkthrough if needed. The capra demon is tough in the beginning, but imagine the game getting worse and that is what will happen.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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The point of the design was to make things fairly tedius, and to punish you for failing so to speak, if you can just rez and keep zerging the bosses it would become like any other game.

To be honest a lot of the challenge of Dark Souls is simply the frustration, and that you tend to make mistakes when you start to get annoyed.

That said I really didn't play much of this one (I put more time in on a Friend's copy of Demon's Souls) the reason why is simply that I couldn't play as a mage anymore, since magic was too much of a finite resource... and well, my handle is "Therumancer" for a reason.

That said, some of those bosses were intended so that if your not a really hard core player the best solution is to show in in a condition to summon other players. All of them can be beaten solo, but it's far easier with help.

I will also say that I have mixed opinions about the entire "tough but fair" thing as I've felt that some of the sequences with dragons and such were anything but. Ditto for the way some of the fire bombers can spawn in places where you can't see them but they can attack you. If you die enough times you can anticipate all the possibilities, but I still think the game can be pretty bloody arbitrary, and that goes for both Dark Souls and Demon's Souls.
 

dancinginfernal

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I agree with everything you said, and still adore the game and it still remains my 2011 Game of the Year.

God damn, once you become skilled at that game it's legitimately difficult to put down the controller.
 

Jazoni89

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Dec 24, 2008
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I preferred the atmosphere, and level design of Demons Souls much better. It felt more coherent to me, and less repetitive compared to Dark Souls.

Plus Demons Souls, even with how difficult it was, it still felt beatable and fair. Dark Souls was far too hard for it's own good most of the time.
 

repeating integers

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Mar 17, 2010
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God, I hate that kind of game design. Halo CE was bad with this too (good otherwise, but the checkpoints... (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ )

Yahtzee had a good quote on the subject. "We know I'm awesome, stop MAKING ME PROVE IT!"
 

OrpheusTelos

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Mar 24, 2012
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I actually have yet to play Dark Souls, to go off topic. I've kind of been on the fence about it. I think the emphasis on lore (a rather unique approach to narrative)and the atmosphere look really neat, and I'm always up for a good action-RPG, but I'm not terribly fond of high difficulty to begin with. I suppose I'll probably try it one of these days, but I'm not sure if I'm going to make it very far. xD
 

daveman247

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Jan 20, 2012
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Greyah said:
daveman247 said:
haha that took me by surprise too. Luckily i found a glitch and killed it in two seconds :p
Running to the fog gate and then making it fall off the cliff is not a glitch, that's intentional. Unless you meant something else, then I'm curious to hear about it. On almost all my characters I've had quite a lot of trouble with it. Only on my witch it was really easy, because I could kill it in three hits by the time I got that far.
Yeah thats what i was talking about. It was intentional? That seems a bit weird...


Actually, a lot of the bosses you can beat by making them fall off a cliff...
 

Feylynn

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Feb 16, 2010
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The Capra demon fight is the perfect example of everything I consider wrong with the game. Every other fight gives you time to see its moves or to learn from an ambush, the Capra Demon is mostly bullshit luck to live through the initial dog assault, unless you happen to have really high poise armor by this point in the game for some reason.

In any other game I'd call the respawn system bad design and needless padding, but I can't do it here, because unfortunately I have made the mistake of being stupid on the internet and asking for something more 'retro' and unforgiving like a complete moron. So this means I basically agree with you, but can't throw stones because I asked for it, and through perseverance actually came to enjoy the design once it stopped kicking my ass.
(Misleading, it still kicks my ass occasionally... "While it's not kicking my ass")

Also, point to the graphics, but I actually like the aesthetics. A bit of anti aliasing and resolution wouldn't hurt.
I like that it wastes your time in most scenarios, it's actually the games only real narrative strength. Every other enemy in the game is a player that tried to do what you are doing, but died so many times their will broke and they rage quit. It's entirely bullshit sometimes, but the game does provide you the tools to make souls back extremely easily and if you spend what you can often it doesn't become to big of a problem.

The other story reason I like Dark Souls is it guilted me into being a good sister for a dying giant-spider-girl-demon. It was actually a really touching moment and the Ancient White Spider is probably one of my favorite characters ever.
 

ImSkeletor

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Feb 6, 2010
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I hate Dark Souls. Its a painful, repetive, ugly, DIAS game(Do it again stupid.) However, I guess its just a love it or hate game. The same things I despise are things others love.
 

V TheSystem V

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Sep 11, 2009
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I re-bought Dark Souls recently, and now that I'm actually making progress (just beat Ceaseless Discharge) I am really enjoying it and wanna play more! It is annoying having to run for five minutes to get your souls back after dying, but if you know what's going to attack you, then those 5 minutes are no problem whatsoever.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Jul 18, 2009
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I was gonna let everything you just said pass,... untill you started talking about how much the visuals sucked.

Different strokes, I guess, but I fucking loved the visual design of this game. Everything about it felt weird, twisted, and creepy, which only amplified the sensation of a mad world that simply wants to kill you. It had enough of a knights/castle type fantasy design to feel grounded in reality, but altered to such a degree that it feels totally unique, and above all, fucked up.

The real problem I had with Dark Souls was that ultimately you don't get a sense of gratification from defeating tough monsters and Bosses anymore. You defeat one tough Boss, there'll be a tougher one after him. You defeat that guy, and an even stronger monster takes his place. And after you defeat him... You get my point. You never reach a point were you feel like you've properly achieved anything, because the rabbit hole keeps going deeper and deeper, constantly revealing tougher challenges. This is the main appeal of the game, but in every game you should atleast get a sense that you're gaining some ground.

And the fact that the game lacks a direct narrative and characters means there's no real emotional engagement or drive beyond "Fuck, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die".

The game simply wore me out, and I stopped short of defeating The Bed of Chaos. Which is a lot more threatening than its name might suggest.
 

MPerce

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May 29, 2011
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All valid points. Yet I still love the crap out of it.

And I've only run into the "tons of walking and fighting easy people just to get killed by the boss" thing once or twice. There is almost always a shortcut from the bonfire to the boss that you can unlock the first time you get there, like the ladder in Undead Burg or the the cage elevator in that one level I can't remember the name of.
 

The_Waspman

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Sep 14, 2011
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Oh Dark Souls, what a... unique relationship I have with this game. Now I quite enjoyed Demon's Souls, yeah, it was tough, but it never at any point felt insurmountable. This did. I spent so long in Undead Berg, just shuttling between the bonfire and the Taurus Demon, getting owned, rinse and repeat. Then I left the game alone for ages, and came back to it.

I do appreciate what you're saying though, Zhukov. There are certain area's of the game I really don't like, and they're obviously on the way to boss fights that I have yet to complete. Currently I'm...

Trying to take down Seath the Scaleless, but the whole Crystal Cave area is boring. I'm sick of slaughtering those four crytal golems, still getting stressed about the invisible paths and then facing those frigging clams at the bottom (yes, I know I can just run past them), only to get pretty much instakilled by his crystal curse thing.

I had the same issue with Tomb of Giants. I can handle it being pitch black, and the dogs looming out of the darkness as I wave my light at them, but at least I managed to kill Nito first time.

I do appreciate, however, that this is a game for people who have a high tolerance for grinding things out. If perseverence and repetition are your thing, then this is your thing. I'll be honest though, There is absolutely no chance I will be playing this again once I complete it. Not even for the trophies, and I'm a huge trophy whore...
 

Wayneguard

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Jun 12, 2010
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Zhukov said:
Get killed by Capra Demon. Respawn. Cross bridge and fight four soldiers. (Yawn.) Go down stairs and fight three dogs. (Stretch.) Fight four thieves. (Wonder how long it's been since you cleaned the bathroom.) Fight three more thieves and two more dogs. (Yawn again.) Get to Capra Demon. (Finally!) Get killed by Capra Demon. Respawn. Cross bridge and fight four soldiers. (Yawn.) Go down stairs and fight three... yeah, you get the point.
Run from Firelink instead; it's much less tedious.

OT: You may think that the basic enemies in the burg are a cakewalk to bait, retaliate, rinse and repeat now but I assure you, the basic enemies don't stay that way for long. All I'll say is... fuck... you... giant skeleton dogs... (and fuck the dark too).
 

Gottesstrafe

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Oct 23, 2010
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Eh, I can understand where you're coming from. The game has a high beginner's difficulty curve, and it generally keeps the nuances of its controls to itself. However, once you beat that threshold (for me it was the Gargoyles you fight on top of the Parish), the game actually opens up to you dramatically once you're forced to change tactics and realize what a dumb sh*t (speaking from my own experience, not calling anyone here that) you were in the beginning. For example, in the beginning of the game I rolled a thief, yet played it like a warrior. I kept getting my ass kicked trying to block hits with a shield the size of a calculator watch and I kept running out of energy to dodge when I was using using my knife too much. After brute forcing my way through to the parish, I began cutting back on my combos and dodging more. I used my bow to pick off troublesome enemies and I focused on kiting the rest of them to line up back stabs (followed by the hilarious revelation that I could kick enemies out of their guard or off ledges).

The Capra Demon is just another example of how taking a moment to think strategy and consider your limitations helps in the long run. Because I played a thief, I figured I had no chance trying to tank the guy with suck low gear (rightly so too). I killed the dogs fairly quickly and ran up the stairs while taking potshots at the boss with my bow. After we started going around in circles and I memorized his attack patterns (the occasional knife plant to his face from a ledge helped too), I started getting creative with my attacks and beat him in a war of attrition. And really, that's what the game is supposed to be: a war of attrition.

As for some of the other complaints I've seen thus far:

You can run past enemies. The only enemies you HAVE to kill are bosses, you can simply avoid the rest (they stop following you after a certain distance). If you're too slow to run, just strip down to a sword and shield and streak past them.

There really isn't such a thing as a high level area, just areas where monsters are more unforgiving than most. You can get past the graveyard and all the way to the catacombs if you a) mastered the basics, b) use a holy weapon that kills them permanently, or c) run right past them. One time when I created a new character I did just this. Since I knew where the necromancers and treasure spawned, I bum rushed the important enemies and fled past the rest until I had gotten a hold of the great scythe. After that, the game was essentially a cake walk 3/4's of the way through.

While I would agree that the story is minimalistic, I wouldn't call it non existent. There's actually quite a bit hidden in the flavor texts of item and on loading screens, and the dialogue spoken by side characters and on loading screens. I actually like that aspect, that the game isn't going to go out of it's way to force feed you narrative, that instead you have to take it on your own initiative to find out what's going on. As far as the game is concerned, your only purpose here is to a) beat the final boss or b) die... a lot. It's kind of like an unmarked quest in its own right: Find out what the f*ck is going on around here.
 

Soxafloppin

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I've never played Dark/Demons' souls but people seem quite afraid to say anything bad about it incase of "ITS CUS ITS TOO HARD FOR YOU NEWB GO PLAY COD" lol.

I hate games with stupid checkpoints though, Ruined Jak II for me.
 

CarlsonAndPeeters

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Mar 18, 2009
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The Wykydtron said:
Oh and I don't mind the challenge when it's actually fair. The people who say every death is fair are talking out of their collective assholes. Snipers. Anor Londo. Fuck!
This.

When the challenge is fair, this game rocks. Unfortunately, you're only engaged in fair combat about 50% of the time. The rest is just being overpowered, outnumbered, or ambushed such that you can't possibly survive your first time through, and the way to win is usually exploiting path finding and funneling enemies into small passages so you can manage the numbers. Not exciting or thrilling or fair.

I did enjoy Dark Souls but couldn't finish it because around Anor Londo it just got to be too much.
 

Westaway

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Nov 9, 2009
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daveman247 said:
xXxJessicaxXx said:
Yeah I really love the design of the game it's kind of fantasy mixed with photorealism and looks great.
Yeah i like how EVERYTHING looks evil. Which fits the story i made up for the game (since i was a bit lost on what as actually happening.)

Am i on the right lines thinking your character is exploring hell? Everything wants to kill you, yet you cant die. And your "hollow". The idea fits i think.
No, you're in Lordran. It's just a place that got fucked up by the bed of choas. There are fully fonctioning kingdoms outside of it.